Jewish Orthodox Mum Part II AMA

[mirah2]

I'm probably letting myself in for it, but here goes...

New AMA to mop up any questions that didn't get answered on the first (full) thread. If you're sure (after reading all of that thread) that your question wasn't answered, or have a new question, please post.

I probably won't have time to reply until after dinner and kids' bedtime.

I am NOT the OP of the original thread. My frame of reference - Modern Orthodox, British (living in UK), convert, mixed race heritage.

Fellow Orthodox Jews of Mumsnet - feel free to crowd share answers, but please remember:

• this is not the shul kiddush. This is a public internet forum anyone can read
• please be sensitive and think about how others (Jewish and not Jewish) might interpret what you say. We sometimes have different working definitions of words within our bubbles so be mindful of that.

Go forth and post!

Do you go to cafes if they're not Jewish?

*customs, not costumes.

@IloveStrawberrylaces I’m not Jewish but my understanding is it has to be an unbroken female line, and you say this lady was your mother’s paternal grandmother. If your mother’s mother was not Jewish you are not. A DNA ancestry test would show whether you had Ashkenazi blood or not but for a panel of rabbis/ the Beth din, you would not be Jewish.

They won't, but I'm going to keep challenging them....

Jumping in here and answering @TheShellBeach (sorry you had to deal with mansplaining for a good question)

The first thread covered Nida - married women separating from their husbands during their period and for seven 'clean days'. The bedika cloth is an internal check using a white cloth to see if we have stopped bleeding and to count the days. As you know, sometimes there is staining or discharge which is not full blown period blood, so in those cases a women needs to be sure this can count towards the 'clean days'. There are Jewish legal rules around what colour or size a stain can be for this to count or not.

The women takes first responsibility for checking. If she does not have the experience to make the judgment call herself on whether a stain is OK or not, the cloth is shown to someone who specialises in that area of Jewish law. Traditionally that is a Rabbi.

Usually, for modesty the routes are a) anonymous via a dropbox system, b) via the husband or c) via the Rabbi's wife. None are ideal.

Option d) is for a woman to show the cloth to another woman who has the halachic training and expertise to make the judgment call herself or pass up to a Rabbi for further guidance. This is what PPs are refering to as a yoetzet. This is not entirely new - there are traditions for women showing other women cloths. What is new is the professionalism - yoetzot are trained by Nishmat, a specific woman's seminary in Israel, to very high halachic standards, and are also given some medical training so that they can signpost to women when to consult an HCP for gynae problems and how to handle medical examinations. This only started around 10-20 years ago and is mostly at the Modern Orthodox end of the community

My POV? It does help to frame it as a medical examination. But I do find it awkward. I usually use a dropbox variant and keep a distant relationship with the Rabbi I am asking - luckily I am in a big enough community that the Rabbi who checks my cloths is not the shul Rabbi I chat to almost weekly. That would be mortifying.

The reason Yoetzot exist is because there are women who are, unsurprisingly, not comfortable talking about their periods and and bodies to a Rabbi in any great detail. So women would crowdsource from other women or wing it solo when making decisions about this part of Jewish law (men like our friend JeweyJew wouldn't know this). And as it is a very complex area, the risk is high that they would get it wrong and cause themselves and their married relationship unnecessary problems. This is still a problem, but hopefully Yoetzot or their equivalents will become more widespread as a solution.

Sure - When a Jewish woman has her period, or has a baby (and sometimes because of spotting), she is Nida, and physically separates from her husband. When nida, the couple don't have any physical contact. When the bleeding has stopped (minimum of 5 days), She then starts counting 7 days, with daily bedika checks, to check for uterine bleeding and ensure the bleeding hasn't resumed. Uterine bleeding is what makes a woman Nida. At the end of the 7 days, she immerses in the Mikva (ritual bath).

Yes, we had only one toilet in our last house. The blood doesn't need to be kept away from men. A male doctor would have no issue dealing with a woman in labour etc.

OK I have a question about this. (Sorry if it's been covered in the other thread.)

What if a woman is trying to get pregnant and she ovulates early in her cycle? Potentially she could miss her fertile window every time.

Not really - assuming it was medically recommended. The rule about saving life (or even a doubt of a doubt that you might be saving life) pretty much overrules all the other rules. The opposite is more the case, ie the issues tend to come up when the hospital wants to switch off the ventilator and allow someone to die.
Oh - I guess euthenasia, assuming it ever gets legalised here.

I guess my question is, is there any way around that?

Would a divorcée (in the Orthodox community) be under pressure to remarry? I'm thinking of women who have been in unhappy/ abusive marriages and don't feel psychologically able to try again. How strong is the social expectation to marry? Would it depend on age? Would families be happy for their (virgin) children to marry a divorcé? Does Levirite marriage to a brother-in-law ever happen now or is the woman always released from it (I think it's called chalizah)?

Not really. If I was out somewhere I couldn't get food or drink easily, I might buy a coke in one, but I wouldn't eat there.

Swearing/bad language? Unfiltered social media? Talking about boys in a 'I fancy him' way (or worse)? Doing dance moves that emphasise grinding your hips? (Admittedly not in ballet).

I'm thinking older teens here.

There are very special heterim (leniencies) that can be employed in these cases, under the guidance of a highly trained rabbi. The late Dayan Erentrau (head of the London Beit Din) did exactly that for a friend of my who had exactly this problem. But this is where even your local rabbi will usually refer to somebody with broad shoulders who will guide you through it.

Covered in the last thread - but yes, there is where a specialist in this area would get involved (together with an HCP) to try and make sure the wife can go to the mikveh before her ovulation window closes.

There a lot of Jewish fertility organisations (charities) who would advise the couple on what to do. There are a number of different ways to handle this (would be called halachic infertility) and it is easily dealt with.

Going to take another break as I keep cross posting...

Thanks all!

Has the increase in popularity of vegetarian/ vegan foods made it easier to keep kosher? For instance, with the coffee example being talked about up thread - if you had a plant milk instead of dairy milk, would you not be ok?

Some orthodox women will take hormonal treatment to delay their ovulation so they can conceive when it is acceptable for them to share a bed with their husband .

Thank you so much, @mirah2 for that detailed explanation of bedikot.
I did wonder if Jewish women found it embarrassing to show cloths to a rabbi.

yes, definitely! Oat and soya milk for example are pareve (not classed as dairy or meat) and we use them as substitutes for milk in meaty dishes.

I don't have many close non-jewish friends for a few reasons. One is the slight anxiety around non-jews because of the risk of antisemitism. You're tight that in most cases the fear is unfounded but I've been burnt many times by antisemitism and I am wary.
Another reason is that most non jews couldn't really relate to my lifestyle so I would struggle to build a close relationship with them. I also may have the fear of being judged by them.

Is there pressure put upon young people get get married? And is there a certain age or stage of life where marriage becomes desirable or expected? How are unmarried people viewed?

Talking about boys in a 'I fancy him' way (or worse)?

But it's normal for teenagers to say things like that.

Thanks for the answers to my question. I have been curious about that since I watched Unorthodox!