Jewish Orthodox Mum Part II AMA

[mirah2]

I'm probably letting myself in for it, but here goes...

New AMA to mop up any questions that didn't get answered on the first (full) thread. If you're sure (after reading all of that thread) that your question wasn't answered, or have a new question, please post.

I probably won't have time to reply until after dinner and kids' bedtime.

I am NOT the OP of the original thread. My frame of reference - Modern Orthodox, British (living in UK), convert, mixed race heritage.

Fellow Orthodox Jews of Mumsnet - feel free to crowd share answers, but please remember:

• this is not the shul kiddush. This is a public internet forum anyone can read
• please be sensitive and think about how others (Jewish and not Jewish) might interpret what you say. We sometimes have different working definitions of words within our bubbles so be mindful of that.

Go forth and post!

Is there something about having to wait until after sunset to go to the mikvah? Are the attendants paid or volunteers? Also what happens if the night you are supposed to go to the mikvah you had planned to have guests, or a wedding etc. Would mikvah come first and you cancel everything, or would you just wait until the next time?

@AliceOlive I'd say your mum is a typical example of a type of person i've met many times, generally older (65+), white british, essentially welcoming and kind, but nervous about putting their foot in it.

My mother-in-law, for the first few years i knew her, would always have to tell me about this friend she had at school (insert typical jewish name) and how she loved this girl and was really close to her.

I've also met other women of that generation (my mum's generation really) who have to tell me about their encounters with jewish people and how they really love us and [insert story about how they have a really close relationship with a Jewish family].

Others may feel differently about it, but for me personally, i have no problem with this. It makes me feel happy and welcome and safe. I know that it means they are aware that I'm 'different' and that I represent something 'other', but at the same time, i recognise that it is, at heart, a positive, heartfelt genuine attempt to reach out and connect. And I recognise that it's a reflection of a true, positive friendship. It doesn't make me uncomfortable - it gives me a warm feeling. I understand that it comes from a good place. And I send all good wishes to your mum :-)

@Ortiguilla That’s really sweet! Mom actually got specific when I mentioned the thread and told me why she feels that way. She talked about the strong family ties, the community, generous helping of others, respect, and other things we’ve discussed here.

One thing I'll always remember about these threads is the utter determination of THAT MAN to interrupt, take over, talk over, and try to be superior to, all the lovely women on here.
He was so determined to pay no attention to everyone's requests and entreaties, wasn't he?
No way was he going to shut up.
It was impressive to see MNHQ banning him.
It was also impressive to see him return with new user names.
He was certainly resourceful.
It did strike me that even on a thread which was clearly for women, a man couldn't bear to be excluded. This was clearly nothing to do with his Jewishness and everything to do with his misogyny.
It was ever thus.

It really was impressive 😅 I'm the last to spot anything, but wow did he make it clear.

She sounds absolutely lovely 😊Please add my good wishes to @Ortiguilla's.

I watched the Stacey Dooley show earlier and was very touched by the story the lady told about her friend who had a difficult pregnancy and after visiting the Mikvah felt ready to have her baby.
I was wondering if there’s a fee to attend the mikvah or do you give a donation?

Yes, there is a fee/donation, but it is clear it doesn't really cover the running costs (cleaning, heating, electricity etc). If you can't afford it, you can give a smaller donation. No-one would be prevented from going because they can't afford it.

Thank you - sorry, another question - does the water need to be replaced for each person or is there a certain number who can use it before it’s refilled?
I wasn’t aware about mikvah before these threads and I find it fascinating and it seems to be a very nice and spiritual experience.

The water isn't replaced between users. I'm not sure how often the water is changed, but there is a filtering system and it always looks very clean. Like in a regular swimming pool.

Ah, thank you!! I will!

Apologies if asked before - have tried to read through all of both threads - very interesting!

Judaism is clearly very community-focused religion and culture and living and practicing in a community must also make everyday life as on orthodox much easier. If one wanted to continue practicing as an orthodox but did not want an inner-city life, are there many options in the UK outside London / other big cities? Are there any thriving communities who live more rurally / in small towns/villages?

This is a fascinating discussion and insight.

I've not finished this second thread yet, but I'm at the part about bedika cloths. Can anybody please tell me what the rabbi is being asked to check for? Is it about whether a period is over/has started? Thanks for any answer.

Yes, I would say that’s a shining example of general twattishness having no creed or colour… you get them everywhere 😉

On the Orthodox Jewish version of mumsnet a very frequent thread topis is 'help, what should I do, its my mikva night and its my friends/relatives wedding/family get together/pesach seder/sons bar mitzva etc'

Short answer: You either delay one night or figure it out so you can go. Some mikvaot will let you go very late, maybe for a fee.

You are meant to go to mikva after nightfall but if it is very difficult you can ask a Rabbi if in your circumstances it is ok to go at daytime. For example, I know some women who live in places with no mikva so they use the sea or natural springs, and they have been told to go at daytime for safety. (Usually the day after you would normally go)

Someone asked about covid minyanim (synagogue services). I heard of people in back to back gardens making a minyan together. 5 or 10 houses togther, all the men would go in their gardens and they had a minyan like that.

One of the takeaways I got from this forum is how uncannily similar Jewish faith is to Muslim faith and practice. I expected them to be miles away, but they are so similar in fact, except the exclusivity thing and meat/milk non-mix, that they sound like an offshoot evolution of the same religion to me, much more so than Christianity. Also they are both semitic languages, semitic ethnicities, so I wonder why people don't focus on similarities.Anyway, thank you for this discussion.

I am actually rather fascinated by Judaism and Jewish culture.

I think the fact that the Jewish community in the UK is quite small and tends to be concentrated in certain clusters means that if you don't live in an area with a large Jewish population it is surprisingly easy to reach adulthood without ever knowingly meeting a Jewish person.

When I was at school in my very white home counties commuter belt town, there were a few black and Muslim students, but to my knowledge, no Jewish ones. The first time I realised that the person I was talking to was Jewish, I was at university.

At the same time, we learned about the Holocaust, and about Hitler wanting to exterminate the Jews, and I also read a couple of books which touched on pre 20th century antisemitism, e.g. the pogroms in the 19th century and antisemitism in Shakespeare, and I always wondered why? Why do some people hate Jews so much? I read Anne Frank's diary and she just seemed like a normal girl. Not knowing any Jews personally, it always seemed like a mystery to me. And now I have met a few Jewish people, and having read this thread, it is still a mystery to me.

Thanks to all for this thread, it's been fascinating. And now I have to find the time to read the first one.

Unfortunately not really - although there has been a recent move of some charedim (ultra orthodox) to Canvey Island looking for somewhere more affordable and with more space for their families. But it was orchestrated as a group, as nobody would move without a community and community infrastructure. My DD has sometimes threatened that she would like to live more rurally (she is very keen on animals and the outdoors rather likes the idea of farming, although not really old enough to appreciate the realities). Very difficult and isolating though. People who want this tend to move to Israel, where there are religious kibbutzim and other small/rural communities. It wouldn't surprise me if that was where she ended up.

The answers to why there is so much antisemitism are long and complicated. If you're interested I can post a short list of recommended books later today?

Thank you for answering my questions. I am going to look into my potential Jewish ancestor more closely. The story is that he came from Egypt and changed his name so I am not sure how much I will be able to find. It's sad that he felt he needed to hide his true identity. I do have a family tree so I know who he identified as and I believe his surname was Levi before he anglecised it.

Even if I can't find anything at least my DNA proves that someone somewhere was Jewish!

My MIL worked as a psychologist in Israel for a while so I have heard some lovely stories from her and would love to visit sometime.

Yes please, I would be very interested.

I agree with others that the similarities in terms of values between Judaism and Islam is striking. One of the things that I find that is at odds with the family values is the amount of Jewish nursing homes and residential care homes for children considering the relatively small population. In Muslim culture this is very frowned upon, and I know many families where there is an incapacitated adult/child in the home, and maybe carers come in, but it's extremely rare for them to go into a home. Even if you don't have close family, a distant cousin or even close family friend would feel it was their duty to care for them. How do the Jewish community feel about this? Is there no reservation about putting family members into a home? The rabbitzen on Instagram I followed only visited her young son once a fortnight (they live locally) and this seems so incredibly cold to me for people who have such strong family values?
This isn't a criticism BTW, just wondering if there is a different mindset or even rules about elderly or infirm people?

Well, it is a criticism @sadienurse2 , because you're using the term "so incredibly cold".
I'm not Jewish but I put my aunt into a care home because I could not care for her complex needs adequately. She was looked after well, had company, activities and someone always at hand to deal with her other specific needs. I am happy that she lived out her final years with contentment and dignity.

I’ve found these two threads fascinating!
I will add on one topic.. I can see as a Christian why Jews might not see Christianity as monotheistic. We believe in the trinity - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit - three facets but one God. However, the doctrine of the trinity is predicated on Jesus being God incarnate, and obviously Jews don’t believe in this (I’m not sure how they view the historical Jesus, but certainly not as the son of God). So when we pray to or worship Jesus, we see it as worshiping God (and therefore in our eyes we are very much monotheistic) but to a Jew it would be breaking the commandment to worship no other gods. I can also see why in the example of the coronation you would avoid participating in those prayers and I’m definitely not offended. (I hope I’ve got that right from your perspective!)