Jewish Orthodox Mum Part II AMA

[mirah2]

I'm probably letting myself in for it, but here goes...

New AMA to mop up any questions that didn't get answered on the first (full) thread. If you're sure (after reading all of that thread) that your question wasn't answered, or have a new question, please post.

I probably won't have time to reply until after dinner and kids' bedtime.

I am NOT the OP of the original thread. My frame of reference - Modern Orthodox, British (living in UK), convert, mixed race heritage.

Fellow Orthodox Jews of Mumsnet - feel free to crowd share answers, but please remember:

• this is not the shul kiddush. This is a public internet forum anyone can read
• please be sensitive and think about how others (Jewish and not Jewish) might interpret what you say. We sometimes have different working definitions of words within our bubbles so be mindful of that.

Go forth and post!

Did he ever acknowledge the cognitive dissonance in getting you to turn on the light for him on Shabbat at the same time as he was sleeping with you?

I can't wrap my head around the contradictions.

This is just being nosey and I apologise if you don't want to answer a personal question, but what was in the relationship for you? Why did you get involved with an orthodox Jewish man (Hasidic? Bearded?) much older than you? Honestly not judging I'm just really fascinated by human interest stories

I would suggest @Athinker is "JeweyJew" who was either banned or realised he had to change his name due to being called out on the previous threads....

Yes. Am suspicious. This time, let's see if we can avoid feeding the troll under the bridge.

@Athinker or @JeweyJew whomever you are.
We cannot know why people die. We cannot know why bad things happen to good people. We are humans and will never know that.
Discussing the holocaust in these terms, in a public forum is of very poor taste and highly offensive.

As the initiator of these threads I'm pointedly asking that you please take your opinions on reform vs orthodox, good & bad Jews, and all other R' Miller controversies, to a new thread.

@EverythingBagels oh that's fine to ask. Anonymous isn't it? It's not something I would discuss usually and tbh, it's so long ago that it's like I was a different person. I categorically do not condone affairs but we all do silly things when young (and when not young!)

No, he didn't make any comment about turning on lights / opening a mini fridge in a hotel room. Just a 'can you do it please?'

As to what I got out of it.. not sure. Hard to say. He had (and still has) a very silly sense of humour, I was clearly in a bit of a weird space at the age of 20, it wasn't something I'd encountered before so it was maybe 'exciting?' But we - believe it or not - had stuff in common and used to laugh all the time.

If so, he seems to have gone from lack of respect for women and people who practice differently to lack of respect for anyone that believes in G_d. Same personality, though.

And @EverythingBagels yep he was Hasidic and bearded. I don't think I saw myself as 'involved' with him - he lived up north and I'm down south so we weren't meeting up every five minutes.

And back then, I didn't know what Hasidic was. In fact, I can remember asking him 'why on earth do you have to have your hair like that, looks a bit daft' and he laughed and said ' it's a pain in the arse sometimes but it's just how it is'

To add on the security, it goes back a lot longer that 2015. My DC's primary school was relatively new when my DC started, and was not govt funded, and originally, to save money, they were trying to use just the parents to do security at pick up and drop off time (about 2006) - but the CST advised them it was too risky, despite the really high gates, and that they had to find the money for a security guard, as well as parents at drop off and pick up.

I reported annoying user 1 and got an email from MNHQ to say he's blocked; I propose we do not engage/mention annoying user 2 and press 'report'.

Did you read the Chabad article I linked? They explain it far better than me, but I'll try summarise more briefly.

I believe:

G-d is just. The holocaust was tragic. The two are not mutually incompatible in Jewish thought. G-d had a reason. That reason did not have to be 'because they deserved it'. Suffering and tragedy happening to someone does not equal you did wrong you deserved it in Judaism. We are human, and limited, and don't know his reasons, thus we cannot and should not blame the victims of the holocaust. Humans have free will. If the Jews were meant to suffer at this point, for whatever reason, G-d would have made it happen. The Nazis did not have to be the instrument by which it happened. So, yes, as they had free will, they are responsible for their actions and can't be 'exonerated by virtue of G-d's plan'. We also, as believing Jews, can struggle and find something hard, or hard to understand, and accept that we don't have all the answers and continue to have faith in G-d and try our best to do His will . This doesn't make us fools, just people with a different belief system to you. It also doesn't allow us to judge.

So yes, it is offensive when someone blames the victims of the holocaust, and it is particularly egregious when it is one of our own.

I'm not here to debate my beliefs, I am just willing to explain them to people who are interested in what I believe. You don't have to agree with them, I am in no way trying to convince you, or convert you to Judaism. If you want a debate about beliefs, please start with reading the Chabad article, and then if you want to know more, there are far more knowledgeable and learned people who can talk to you than me.

I'm in my late 30s and there has been security at synagogues and Jewish schools as long as I've been around so agree, a lot farther back than 2015.

Thanks. Nothing offensive here!

I've been involved in the community since the late ’90s. I can't remember a time when security hasn't been an issue in synagogues (can't comment on schools as I didn't go to a Jewish school growing up).

Sadly you get used to it. I'm only really reminded it's not normal when someone like you, from outside the community, comments on it. (Not a criticism). I'm also lucky that I haven't been through a drill myself, I lived through a rocket attack in Israel as a student so that would likely trigger flashbacks.

Sadly, in countries like France and Belgium the security is even tighter.

Bumpety bump @jewishorthomum @EllaDisenchanted

agreed

Thank you, I watched that Stacey Dooley doc before, they seem like a lovely family. The Chabad branch/sect? seem much more open, how do more closed chassidic sects view them?

I've read a lot about the schools in SH and how political it can be to get your child into one. I read that in one of them parents had to submit their mobiles so that the school governors could download data to check what sites they were using. Also that one wouldn't admit pupils if the mother drove a car. On the ground, do parents get sick of this intrusion or is it just accepted or even welcomed?

It's absolutely the only way to deal with trolls - ignore them completely.

If they get no response to their rude and goady posts they will give up.

It's like ignoring a toddler who is having a tantrum - they soon stop if you pay them no heed.

My DS (now 36) once had a toddler tantrum in Fortnum and Masons and I walked off to where I could still see him, but he could not see me. It stopped much more quickly than if I'd picked him up and tried to reason with him.

I hope that this thread and its predecessor get into Classics.
They have been such a valuable resource and I have learned to much from the Jewish women posting on them.

Despite having slightly nuanced views and responses to questions, they all remained respectful to one another's posts.

Learned SO much (that should say) ^^

It really is terrific and helpful. I also see so many practices that are related or were once part of Catholicism and have gone by the wayside. And many things I’d like to incorporate into my own life.

Not SH and not a Jewish family - but I used to visit a family with 10 children living in a 2 bedroom flat

Every bit of floor was covered in mattresses except the kitchen and hallway - no tables, chairs or other furniture and virtually no possessions bar a change of clothes - all immaculately clean and tidy

It was like a bizarre camping project. No way to live obviously

I have nominated the thread for Classics. I think if MNHQ gets enough requests for this, they will consider it.

Just report the OP and say you want it to be considered for Classics.

I actually think that the fact that the women all disappeared for Shabbos was inspiring.

It reminds me of fundamentalist Christians in the Hebrides - they also do no cooking, no work, and spend their Sabbath (Sunday) at church and then quietly at home, with their families.

I was wondering if the concept of "Laying the Stranger's Place" was known in the Jewish community?

Welcoming strangers is mentioned in Hebrews and in the New Testament. In some Christian communities, it was common for an extra place to be laid at the table, in case a stranger came to the house.
Do you do this in your homes?

Chabad of Islington run walking tours of Stamford Hill occasionally, check their website. The Rabbi who does it grew up in Stamford Hill.

https://www.jewishislington.co.uk/events