Jewish Orthodox Mum Part II AMA

[mirah2]

I'm probably letting myself in for it, but here goes...

New AMA to mop up any questions that didn't get answered on the first (full) thread. If you're sure (after reading all of that thread) that your question wasn't answered, or have a new question, please post.

I probably won't have time to reply until after dinner and kids' bedtime.

I am NOT the OP of the original thread. My frame of reference - Modern Orthodox, British (living in UK), convert, mixed race heritage.

Fellow Orthodox Jews of Mumsnet - feel free to crowd share answers, but please remember:

• this is not the shul kiddush. This is a public internet forum anyone can read
• please be sensitive and think about how others (Jewish and not Jewish) might interpret what you say. We sometimes have different working definitions of words within our bubbles so be mindful of that.

Go forth and post!

I can't remember exact details, but I'm pretty sure for the very first lockdown period they did close briefly. They then reopened, but discreetly and on the basis that anyone isolating obviously could not come.

At a mikveh, it's normal not to see any women other than the mikveh ladies - entering and leaving can be managed so you don't meet. We have our own preparation rooms, which are cleaned between use. The mikveh already uses chlorinated water which is changed regularly, and I think this was increased during lockdown to cover any hygiene concerns.

In Israel, because the mikvehs are partly state run they worked with the Health Ministry to keep them open as much as possible. Mikveh is really important - it's not just the sexual separation, but everything that goes with it (physical contact etc).

I mean possibly? Id have to look into it but wouldn't identify as such, pretty sure I've broken every rule and thats just today!

I haven't looked into it other than my mum mentioning it in passing so presume she thought we knew... Nan had a non religious funeral service.

Hi, hope you all had a lovely Shabbos/Saturday.
I was thinking and chatting to my friends about this thread on Shabbos, and we were all so inspired by how much interest you all have in Jewish life, and by the respect and love. So thanks for that. ❤

Its a good question but I don’t know the answer as I didn’t need Mikva in that period, sorry! Dh thinks there may have been an appointment system with clean downs in between.
@jewishorthomum any idea?

❤️

You got it! :)

In some religious cities in Israel, there is a siren just before Shabbat comes in. Otherwise we rely on published times (which vary by city). The calculations are quite complex and don't necessarily match up with the sunset times in the newspaper.

There is window of around 1 hour where people can bring in Shabbat early if they want to (usually in the summer). Usually if the husband is going to an 'early' service at synagogue, the wife lights candles earlier than the final deadline in line with this.

If you miss the final deadline for some reason (e.g. you are in hospital), you don't light as that would then break Shabbat.

@mirah2 how does the shabbat lunch work? I assume you went to a kosher restaurant, and shouldn't they be not working? Also when at home, do you wash the dishes or not? Bernette on Strictly Kosher said she didn't, but the you tubers I watch say they can run the dishwasher.
Also Re the mikvah, I always see woman on Instagram saying that it's always so embarrassing to see other women queuing there. What's embarrassing about it? Everyone is there for the same reason surely?

I had to go to Mikva during lockdown.
They were open, but were run with massive precautionary measures in place. They were deep cleansed between each use. The water temperature of the main mikva was raised and extra chlorine was added to prevent spread. And obviously anyone who had to quarantine could not attend. At one point they made everyone do a covid test before attending. It was a really difficult time.

That’s great to hear, lovely to see you back, @jewishorthomum 😍

Agreed that whoever spoke to @Ortiguilla like this was totally wrong to have done so. Again, I'm sorry.

Just to add:

I was at Uni with a Welsh 'Cohen' who was actually a Levi (different subgroup). The likely backstory was that their surname was originally something else, and ended up as Cohen because an immigration official assigned them a Jewish sounding name 😂

There are also non-Jews who have ended up with the surname Cohen through a Jewish ancestor.

It's true that you don't have to be a Kohen to be a Rabbi. However, the special role of a Kohen also includes being a teacher and spiritual guide for the nation. Several Kohanim take this seriously and end up in Rabbinic and/or teaching roles.

At one of my synagogues (I belong to two), both Rabbis are also Kohanim. They find a way to officiate at funerals which doesn't break the rules around contact with the dead etc.

Thank you!

Ask away :)

It's really worth looking into if you are interested. Wedlock status doesn't matter, it might just make the genealogy more complicated.

Good luck!

If a couple accidentally touches during Niddah, they is no official compensation of that sort. They treat it as every other sin, hopefully use it as a learning experience to do better next time.
Also in our daily prayer there is a small prayer where we ask God to forgive us if we have done any wrongdoings so they could have this in mind when praying.

Where did you go for your Shabbat lunch today?

We all go to each others' houses for Shabbat. One set of friends hosted. We brought some wine :)

Kosher restaurants are not normally allowed to open on Shabbat. On rare occasions when they do open, the food is all cooked and pre-ordered in advance and they have to make special arrangements to make sure Shabbat is not broken. This is usually only done for private events. I think one (expensive) restaurant in London regularly opens for Shabbat, but again you have to book and order ahead.

At home, we leave the washing up until after Shabbat. If we absolutely need something, we wash by hand with cold water and a special sponge to avoid squeezing (one of the Shabbat 'work' definitions). A dishwasher can be run if it is set up on a timer before Shabbat - we can't press the start button on Shabbat. I'm not sure about the loading - we only load before Shabbat.

Mikveh - sometimes there is a waiting room so you do see people. Mikveh is very private and there is an expectation that couples will sleep together that night, so yes there can be some embarrassment if your neighbour/someone you know from shul happens to be there at the same time. When it has happened, I just smile at them then stare at my phone/magazine until a room is ready.

Ideally you avoid this by having a big enough mikveh that everyone can go straight to a room.

Hi @mirah2 thank you so much for setting this up. I’ve spent the past hour or so reading through and have found this so interesting, although my phone has been playing up and I don’t think I’ve seen all the questions/answers.

I have a question, which I need to be quite delicate asking - please educate me!

About 15 years I (female) worked for an organisation who brought in a Jewish CEO (male). All the senior staff he then hired were Jewish (all male). Unsure if they were orthodox, but they were certainly “strict” - only eating kosher, refused to take emergency calls during Shabbat. They were extremely cold towards me and other non Jewish women. They wouldn’t engage with us, dare I say they were mysogenistic, and it made working life hell and made me very unhappy. It was clear it was before I wasn’t Jewish. Speaking to Jewish friends, this is not uncommon. Can I ask how a Jewish woman would feel if a non Jewish man behaved this way to them? Also, What are your views on not working during Shabbat, and letting colleagues and clients down? I’m talking senior members of staff who should be available in an emergency.

My young daighter and I were walking through Stamford Hill a couple of years ago, and several Jewish men looked at us unkindly and would cross the street to be away from us and outside some shops we were given awful looks. I had to tell a white lie and say they were Covid conscious and wanted to stay away from other people. How would you feel, as an Orthodox Jew if someone looked at you and crossed the street so they could not be near you? Having jewish friends I understand its to do with separation of the sexes. I suppose it doesn’t matter the reason, it’s still a horrible feeling to have someone not want to be near you. How would you feel if the shoe was on the other foot?

im asking sincerely - I grew up in an area with a Jewish school - I didn’t go but have good friends who went - they have a more relaxed approach to their religion but I’m still quite nervous about asking these questions properly to them!

thank you for taking the time to do this

Hello, I have a question about mental health awareness & support. Is there much in the orthodox community? Is there a lot of stigma around mental health conditions? And from your knowledge what is the prevalence of mental health conditions in the Jewish orthodox community? My impression would be that the overall incidence would probably be lower than in the general population.

If you have older children (teens), would they understand enough about married life to potentially realise when their mum is going to mikvah, ie that their parents will be having sex that night? Sorry, that’s a really crude question. Just wondering as I know I would naturally have (innocently) asked my Mum where she was off to!

Thank you all for your continuing commitment to this thread!

I have a question about sin in Judaism: does intention matter?

In my branch of Christianity we teach that you can't sin accidentally, there has to be some decision to sin. So if you don't know that something is a sin, you don't sin by doing it (broadly speaking, it is slightly more nuanced than that), and if you didn't have any control then you don't sin (e.g. if you dreamed impure thoughts).

Does Judaism make a distinction between intentionally breaking a commandment and doing so absentmindedly? Or between people who know the commandments and people who haven't been taught them (but are still Jewish)?

Also I had cancer treatment at Barts and often noticed Jewish orthodox couples there & it made me wonder about cancer treatment in the Jewish orthodox community. I know that there are some hospitals within the community but for issues such as cancer would most people visit an NHS hospital? Thanks for taking the time to answer these questions. I have always had a lot of interest & respect for the Jewish community.

I think there are as much mental health issues in our community as in any. Until a few years ago there was a stigma associated with mental health but thankfully over the past few years this his improved. Now there are multiple Jewish run helplines and organisations to support those with mental health issues.

@jewishorthomum thank you for answering my question 😊

@Madeintowerhamlets on diversity training recently I discovered that London and Manchester (and maybe others) hospitals have 'shabbat rooms' for Jewish patients who are inpatients over shabbat. I thought that was very interesting, I wonder what sort of modifications they would have?

Pls thank @jewishorthomum for starting this all off!

I'm really sorry you've had some bad experiences.

I wouldn't find the behaviour you described OK from any colleagues - Jewish or non-Jewish. There can be some workplace challenges around socialising, touching, being alone together etc. But that does not excuse 'hiring your own' and poor behaviour.

Shabbat is very strict. I don't know what sector you worked in, but being available for work contact on Shabbat is only for real 'pikuach nefesh' (life threatening) situations. Usually this is in medicine, although I have heard of an Orthodox criminal lawyer in the US who arranged for clients to be able to contact him on Shabbat because that was also deemed pikuach nefesh (I assume he took rabbinic advice on this).

If you are not in medicine or dealing with life threatening situations, then the CEO should have made sure someone else was always available in a Shabbat emergency. That means at least one non-Jewish senior staff member!

I think others have tried explaining the SH behaviour. It's not my 'bit' of the community, but frankly - yes I also find that rude and off-putting. We are meant to treat others with respect and not shame them, so even if the men crossed over they should have done it discreetly and without the awful looks. This is a 'could do better' area.

Mostly kosher food (for anyone accompanying the patient), facilities to heat this up or have a hot drink, and religious books or reading material. Plus chairs to have a rest. They're also open during the week for similar reasons.

Shabbat in hospital is challenging because you can't buy anything or use your phone. There's also generally limited kosher food in hospital, especially if you aren't the one being admitted to a bed.