Jewish Orthodox mum AMA

[jewishorthomum]

I'm a 29 yr old Jewish Orthodox religious mum of 2 little boys. Is there anything you'd like to ask about Orthodox Jewish life?
Kill my time whilst I'm waiting to be called in for an appointment.
(When I get called in for my app I'll have to run but will try respond later if there are questions.)

That was me. I still remember it very vividly over 20 years later. I don't think the OPs response was very good tbh and it has been striking to see the various different responses of different jewish women on here. Takes on things do seem to massively differ. I'm not sure a baseline orthodox Jew title is very useful tbh.
A very kind Jewish woman reached out to me via PM and explained it much much better. Like with all things, people differ and there are some rude ones. We can't judge the whole community on my one experience but its interesting that so many responses on here are in regards to that proportionally tiny hasidic community in Stamford Hill. I think it's important we remember they're not representative of the whole faith.
I don't particularly agree with the complete insulation as I think it causes divisions and I don't think the hasidic community realises quite how rude and unwelcoming they are to outsiders. I don't expect to have dinner with them or even befriend their kids, but having decency to say sorry I can't shake your hand or sorry we have to go home now, is really not that difficult. That experience really made me dislike the hasidic Jews for a long time and that's not healthy for a child to think. I'm someone who is very religious and also share the belief that we are not here for ourselves, but for others, and I do understand the fear of your kids leaving, but I'm not sure complete insulation from the outside world is the way. In my religion there is an expectation that you are to choose for yourself once you're of age and that you need social and academic skills to function in society without our sheltered community. I appreciate orthodox Jewish people will have a different view but one lady on this thread in particular is rubbing me the wrong way and I find her scarily entitled and frankly her views are ironically selfish. I'm glad there's been a variance of responses from different Jewish women to balance it out.

@JeweyJew I'm not sure I agree with your tone and about mosorti not being religious.
Anyone who keeps Shabbos, family purity (mikva), and kashrus would be seen as religious regardless of their affiliation. Its unfair to make assumptions.

Are the Jewish community restricted to doing certain jobs?

Men separating from women.... what would happen if someone wanted to become a Doctor? Would this be acceptable?

I thought exactly the same thing - thanks for asking.

Actually I take the 'unfair' comment back. The other poster who was accused of speaking for all 'religious Jews' is being more rude to others than I would be in a public forum.

The rest stands.

Just wanted to add to this, as I think it is more than this. The process of having a rule and then a work-around is in itself valuable. It means that (ideally) everybody both learns the rule and the work-around. In the case of eruv, that sensitises one to the fact that carrying in a domain defined as a carmalit (what you need to be able to create an eruv) is prohibited on Shabbat (you cannot create an eruv in a reshut harabbim - very public space with various special criteria, and there is no need to in a reshut hayachid - privately owned space) , but that with the intermediate space of a carmalit, there are procedures that can make the space more like a private space and less like a very public space which allows carrying. The work-around works because of the understandings of spaces which is inherent in the tradition and traditional texts, and mean people go and study the traditional texts (which is an absolute obligation) to understand the ideas better.

I would like to add to this
I married out, my children go to large, mixed comprehensive schools in London and have friends of literally every religion and from all parts of the world.

In general, this is, indeed, a very positive thing and I feel very lucky to be able to raise my children like this.

But in the past week, in school, a boy in my daughter's class called her 'a Jewish bitch' and told her 'Hitler should have finished the job'.

To be fair, all of her classmates were really supportive, and he has been severely sanctioned by the school.i know he's a tiny minority.

But you can understand why some people are fearful of the wider world

I would just like to preface this by saying that I’m not intentionally being provocative, I’ve just not had the opportunity to ask an ultra orthodox Jewish woman this before, and genuinely interested on the reasoning.

On the topic of covering the hair with a wig rather than a headscarf, why do:

A) some women shave their heads if the purpose is for it to conceal beauty? and

B) You believe that God is perfect and therefore any divine teachings are perfect, so if God has given a perfect teaching that recommends to cover your hair, why do you cover your hair with something that looks just like, or very similar to your hair? Do you not see this as trying to “trick” God? You said that it is both to conceal beauty and to cover the hair, but you are fulfilling one element of the requirement, rather than both. Is it not better to just admit that you are only partially fulfilling the requirement? Not to us, but to yourself, for your relationship with God. It is, logically, an imperfect form of worship.

C) Israelis not like ultra Orthodox Jews? When I watched the series ‘Unorthodox’ I found it very interesting that the cast were Jews born in Israel/Palestine, which to me showed that a lot of Israelis don’t like ultra Orthodox Jews, for them to create a series so anti-ultra orthodoxy.

I looked up why this was, and, from what I read, this is because ultra Orthodox Jews are anti-Zionism and believe that Jews are, according to the Torah, only supposed to return to Israel/Palestine when the Jewish Messiah arrives, that they aren’t supposed to return “because of the use of automatic weapons and tanks.”

You keep saying that Israel/Palestine is political and nothing to do with ideology, but this is very clearly not the case, because the whole Zionist movement came from religious ideology, which is, arguably, diametrically opposed to Jewish scripture.

There are even people seeking asylum due to this.

For more info:
https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/ultra-orthodox-anti-zionist/

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2021/9/16/asylum-appeal-of-anti-zionist-jewish-israeli-who-refuse

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/transformation/why-i-am-antizionist-jew/

I have a friend working in hopitals as an NHS nurse, another is training in midwifery. We are not restricted to certain jobs, however it is always challenging to work in a secular environment because of Shabbos and the many festivals that we need to take off work. Working within the community is definitely easier in that way

Jews are not unwilling towards conversion. They don't seek converts out though.
Ruth, mother of King David, was a convert.
However conversion requires commitment, and amongst the very orthodox it is a custom to turn converts away before accepting so you need to persevere.

If you read the post I'm replying to, that poster did refer to all 'religious Jews '. They then came back and stated that Masorti Jews aren't religious. I wonder what my Rabbi would make of that.

They are also being very insulting to people of other ethnicities and religions, and I don't want to engage with them further.

i don't think they are helping the cause of mutual understanding at all.

@amcha This is so interesting. I actually live in an eruv.

Yes - sorry, I followed up. I agree they are being insulting.

This is not only factually wrong, but outright insulting. So much so that I almost think you're doing it deliberately.

I don't feel that your posts on this thread are helping either Jews or non-Jews.

The majority of Jews in the UK are not homophobic and would not cut their children off for marrying a non-jew. They also wouldn't tell other Jews that we are 'not religious'.

I hope none of the non-Jewish posters on this thread take your posts as representative of anything other than one individual, who seems very hostile to everyone who isn't exactly the same as you.

Thank you x

Regarding praying you said upthread that men are required to pray 3 times a day but that women aren’t / have personal choice. What is the reason for the difference?

Ok, Its complicated. The anti zionists that you refer to and the article that you link are both talking about a small sect of Chassidic ultra orthodox jews. The reason that they are so vehemently anti Israel is because they are of of the opinion that until the Messiah comes Jews are destined not to have a hometown and are meant to live in exile. Once Messiah comes he will help us to return to Israel and settle there. The chassidim from these sects are anti the Israeli government, some of them won't even visit Israel, they won't speak or learn Hebrew. Their views are very extreme.
The majority of orthodox and ultra orthodox Jews today feel a strong connection to Israel and support the country and believe that it is the Jewish homeplace. I myself lived there for 2 years.

However, I still stand that the way that the Israeli army handle the conflict is purely political.

Do Orthodox Jewish couples deliberately time their weddings so that they wont be nida? Or take pills to delay their period/stop periods initially. Otherwise, might you end in a situation where a couple have waited until marriage for sex, and then have to wait another couple of weeks, whilst living together for the first time?

I know most Jewish people in the UK are not homophobic, from personal experience. I am a bit confused whether being gay or lesbian is unacceptable in the Orthodox community, specifically though?

thanks for the honest answer to my question.
I condemn anyone who rejects a child for having different beliefs or considers their differences to be a tragedy.
But this is a good thread.
Perhaps like other religions orthodox jews will feel more able to tolerate dissent if they feel less threatened/more secure. That's how it has happened with Catholics, etc, things that were a massive deal a few generations ago no longer are.

The original Zionist movement is secular. Ben Gurion himself was non religious. Now many orthodox Jews have embraced Zionism but there are certain sects like satmar who believe the current government is not legitimate because it is democratically elected and secular (as of now, hope and pray it would stay this way). They believe that we can't live on the land until Messiah comes but this is a view not shared by most orthodox Jews and probably all the PP on this thread would disagree with that..

Most Israelis are secular. This means that they don't go to synagogue regularly, they don't keep Shabbat. They don't wear kippah or religious dress. They marry other Jews but largely because there are lots of other Jews to marry. This is why the reform movement is less successful in Israel as people seem content with being secular rather than adhering to a less strict, more modern version of the religion. They serve in the army. There is a threadbare welfare state so they have to work and pay taxes.

Ultra orthodox jews get money from the government from learning full time. They have large families (and apparently get government money for this). This is why secular israelis feel very resentful, I would probably feel resentful if I had to pay taxes for my neighbour to study full time at yeshiva and have 7 kids and they had zero desire to get a job. To be fair to them, they believe they are doing god's work but to the secular Jew, that still doesn't really help with the fact that the nation is still spending a lot of money on the haredi community...

@JeweyJew Can you just leave? You're being outright rude and negative on an otherwise really informative and kind thread. It's really sad that as a Jew you've created this when OP has managed to do what is very rare; a respectful discussion about a religion on a public forum. Until you arrived, it has been very civil and informative.

Women are exempt from time-based commandments. The reason is because traditionally women would be occupied with family based duties so she is exempt. Obviously, a woman can pray and many do pray 1,2 or 3 times a day, but they aren't obligated to.

As an aside, can I just point out that having a thread where multiple Jewish MNs come out of the woodwork to answer questions on the OPs behalf, and end up disagreeing with each other (with varying degrees of respect/insult) is in itself...very Jewish. 😂

I'm hoping to come back later to pick up some points about conversion/racism etc. I'm juggling work and an unexpectedly sick kid atm, so at this rate the thread might be full before I get there 🤔

@Babyboomtastic I'm really impressed with this question. You've caught on fast 😉 Yes if a woman's period may fall on the wedding night she'd take hormonal pills to postponed the period so that she can be with her husband that night.