Jewish Orthodox mum AMA

[jewishorthomum]

I'm a 29 yr old Jewish Orthodox religious mum of 2 little boys. Is there anything you'd like to ask about Orthodox Jewish life?
Kill my time whilst I'm waiting to be called in for an appointment.
(When I get called in for my app I'll have to run but will try respond later if there are questions.)

My sincerest apologies. How should I ideally address a person of that ethnic minority?

@JeweyJew whilst this link is not necessarily the best it may be helpful

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-30999175

That is fine, but it is not for you to decide what other people should feel about how they are referred to. Coloured is an outdated term. I, and many other black people would not like to be called as such in the UK. The pp was pointing that out respectfully. You would not like to be called offensive outdated terms would you? So why would other people.

A lot of people are being quite respectful on your thread so please be respectful and don’t use offensive terms.

Jeweyjew you don’t have a right to tell people what they should or shouldn’t consider ‘stupid’. It is an offensive term in the UK and other countries. I’m going to assume you and the OP freely use that word amongst your circle but don’t do it on a public forum.

Sometimes though it doesn't mean that being with other Jews means that they would be more accepting of your religious requirements than non Jews. Universities with lots of Jews doesn't necessarily mean they would be religious. My frum SIL studied in Manchester but lived with a variety of people during her years there as she couldn't always get a room in Hillel house and affordability was her chief consideration. No issue living with non Jews..She went on Masa and they put her in an apartment with non observant Jews and they were downright hostile towards her because she kept kosher and Shabbat. My MIL was so confused, saying my daughter went to live in the Holy Land and she is having problems just for living how she believes a Jew should live!

Just wanted to chip in here - in order to give an idea of Jewish Orthodox diversity - not all Jewish Orthodox women wear wigs. I don't, I wear hats rather than a wig - which is more typical of a modern orthodox position. I did try it briefly when I first got married as I worried that as a solicitor, people might struggle with the hat, but in the end I decided people were coping and I felt more comfortable.
But another reason for not wearing the wig is that although I am Ashkenazi (from Eastern European descent), my husband is Edot HaMizrach (from middle Eastern descent), and the Edot HaMizrach rabbis are much less keen on wigs than the Ashkenazi rabbis (for some of the reasons you have articulated). So you will find fewer women in the Sephardi/Edot HaMizrach communities wearing wigs than in the more Ashkenazi communities.
However, just about everybody in the Orthodox communities, Ashkenazi and Sephardi, can spot a wig, because they know to look for it, and once you do, then you know - so any man within the community can tell you are off the market by your wig, you don't need a hat or scarf. Here in England, therefore, a fair number even within the Sephardi/Edot HaMizrach communities do wear wigs, to fit in with the wider Orthodox community (if they identify more as charedi than modern orthodox) and if they identify more with the modern orthodox they tend not to wear any head covering except in religious environments such as synagogue. The kind of devoted modern orthodox women who wear hats like I do don't exist much in England, you really need to go to Israel for those kinds of communities. It is the sort of reason that people like Lucy and Leo Dee (whom you will now no doubt now all have heard about), wanted to move to Israel, because it is hard being that kind of modern Orthodox but committed Jew in England.

I'm sorry but this is a sweeping statement and you don't speak for all religious Jews.

I was raised in a Masorti community and we are very accepting of lgbt people and relationships. The Rabbi very recently did a whole sermon on Pride. And we are 'religious Jews'.

I feel you are representing your particular, quite extreme views as if they are universally representative of 'religious Jews'.

They are not. Most Jews in the UK today would not cut contact with their children if they married out, and most Jews are also accepting of lgbt people.

Of course no one should use offensive terms. @JeweyJew does not speak for me or for any other Jews on this thread or in real life. I have to say I disagree with almost every post they have made!

I'm white so wouldn't want to speak for anyone else, however in my experience where it's necessary to identify someone's race saying "black man/woman/person" has always been fine.

I'm sure other posters will be able to advise with personal experience if necessary.

Thank you. I have been reading this thread, and like a lot of other posters, have gained a lot from it. It has been really interesting, and informative. I hope that people can just remain respectful of each other, and our cultural differences.

@socialmedia23 Sometimes though it doesn't mean that being with other Jews means that they would be more accepting of your religious requirements than non Jews. Universities with lots of Jews doesn't necessarily mean they would be religious.

Absolutely. But where there are non religious Jews, there are also Hillel chaplains and Aish chaplains and Chabad - and that means that there is more support - for things like exams clashing with yom tov, and classes finishing too close to/after shabbat etc etc. And also for the flat out anti-semitism, it is helpful to have others who are also in the firing line - and non religious Jews are also in the firing line (although yes, if you wear a kippah, that does make you the prime target as everybody knows). It is true that individual non-Jews are often more accepting and tolerant (eg he is going interailing with a bunch of mostly non Jews this summer, and he did the programming so they go out on a Sunday and back on a Friday and the one shabbat they stay in one place so they can go out and he doesn't have to break shabbat). But it is also hard to always have to explain yourself to everybody all the time - and it is nice to have some safe spaces, like at the chaplains and Chabad - and that comes with other Jews.

In a nutshell, because anyone either not obligated to keep something or not in a position to keep it, doesn't have the legal (halachic) status of believability.

For example if I told another Jew that I know for a fact a piece of meat has been slaughtered and processed according to the laws of kashrut (kosher), I would be believed. However if a non-Jew or even a Jew who doesn't keep kosher would say it, their word wouldn't be enough to permit a Jew to eat that meat.

(That's not to say they're lying, but in order to testify you need a certain status. Similar to having a document notarised by an official notary, or a passport picture signed by someone of specific community standing.

The criteria necessary to 'sign off' on kosher status, is (a) being obligated, ie being Jewish, and (b) actually keeping kosher.)

As a convert was once in a position where her virginity had no special status (as far as Jewish law is concerned), because non-Jews are anyway forbidden to Kohens, she doesn't have legal 'believability' that she's still a virgin.

This BTW would be the same in many instances of Jewish women being captured or kidnapped. Since they weren't in a position to ensure their virginity, they can no longer testify towards it.

All this is unpaid and done out of a sense of duty to fellow Jews. If one is ready to go the extra mile for their children or close family, does that make it sad if they aren't willing to do so for strangers? Especially as the non-Jews aren't paying in, so to speak, into the system.

my view would be, if your faith teaches you to better the world and not just your own community, then the charity you would do would be all the better if it was not differentiating between ethnicities/religions. As for paying, if you don't ask whether others would pay, or for volunteering themselves then of course they couldn't.

And just to add, the ones he is going with are vegetarian/vegan, which somewhat makes the kashrut a bit easier, but it is still hard - again, he is getting good at organising these things, and I think he is anticipating not living on much.

This is so interesting about Lucy Dee. Thanks for explaining. My MIL wears a hat and no wig and her headscarf was very much like Lucy Dee's when she was married (based on old pics). I never realized she was unusual! I actually thought it was a money thing, wigs are really expensive and my MIL would think it vain to spend so much money on her appearance.. a lot of the religious women she is around are also not the type to be fussy about appearance, it's the inside that counts.

My SIL who has made aliyah and is frum says that there is tension between the secular and the religious in the way there isn't in the UK.

But this is an AMA started by an Orthodox Jewish Mum.

You are Masorti. Not Orthodox. You are religious, but as you know there is a difference between that an Orthodox.

I know you (and me, and others) are trying to be helpful here. We all have our own opinions and might phrase things differently. But specifically on LGBT issues and intermarriage, there are definite lines to be drawn between the Masorti approach and the Orthodox approach(es) which this thread is meant to be about.

I don't use the term coloured (generally I just say Asian/African etc), though I'm old enough to remember when that was considered the polite term. I'm merely pointing out the absurdity of two terms which mean exactly the same thing, yet one is pc while the other is offensive.

@JeweyJew

I'm not the one who wrote that, but I think it's a stupid rule. There's literally no difference between person of colour and coloured person, yet somehow one is the correct pc term and the other is outdated and offensive.

Just a heads up that some of your responses are quite aggressive in tone without needing to be.

I'm sure you don't mean to come across that way but this is very much a thread that's been fascinating due to respectful dialogue and curiosity on both sides.

There is a literal difference in that they are literally different phrases. If a group of people tell me that they find a phrase I use to describe them offensive and outdated, I would listen to their feedback and take it on board rather than just kneejerk calling their point of view stupid.

If you believe a term or perception is offensive due to your religion / cultural identity and when you pointed that out to someone in a respectful way, they said it was stupid, wouldn't you consider that rude, disrespectful and unnecessary?

It's a shame to see it on an otherwise very respectful AMA that's been so interesting to read and learn from,

To be clear - Orthodox, Masorti, Liberal and Reform Jews can all come under the umbrella of 'religious Jews'. So it isn't fair to accuse someone giving a specifically Orthodox perspective of claiming to speak for all 'religious Jews' unless that is what they have actually said.

The mikva is a small pool of water and women dip one by one. Its very clean and private and you don't meet any other women there.

Physical cleansing happens before the mikva. Before dipping in the mikva a women soaks in a bath and cleanses her body, she removes makeup, brushes teeth, cuts nails, waxes etc.
She then dip in the mikva. The mikva isn't a physical cleansing, water symbolises purity and when we dip we come out purified.

I would like to understand a bit more about the logic behind ethnic exclusivity of the jewish community and the unwillingness to convert others.

I think someone said jews believe in being the chosen people, in that G-d told them they should abide by a specific set of rules and others don't need to. So do they then believe those rules are positive constructs? And if so, why shouldn't other people in the world not benefit from these rules if they are so great? Others shouldn't abide by these rules because they are too difficult? But that would imply they believe Jews can do the difficult thing whereas others cannot, i.e. they are superior because of their ethnicity. Is that not racist?

The other explanation would be the rules are not positive constructs, so they are out of luck and non jews are actually lucky for not having to abide by them. But then do they believe they have specifically been chosen to suffer? If so, how does that affect their relationships with G-d?

@JeweyJew one of your posts earlier read as though you are male (use of “we” when referring to men and “they” when talking about women). No judgement but I’m just curious if you are a man? If so, how does that sit with not talking to or thinking about other women - is it ok if online? Huge apologies if I’ve misunderstood.

@Georgyporky About the eiruv on Shabbos being a hypocritical work around. Judaism isn't there to make life difficult for us. If we can make life easier whilst still conforming to guidelines then that's fine.

Bald Men keep their kippahs on, I don't know! Maybe they stick a velvet strip on the underside of the kippah to create friction. We do that with our wigs.

Or alternatively, as Rabbi Sacks put it - there are multiple paths to G-d and while it is our job to keep our path, and that is what we as Jews are obligated in and required to do, other peoples have other paths and it is not our job to twist them off their paths and insist they follow our path. If people feel, for some reason, that this absolutely and completely is the right path for them, and they won't be dissuaded, then we take them, but if not, it is better they look within their own traditions and history, as the last thing we want is somebody who is half hearted about it, and there are lots of other alternatives.