Page 27 | Jewish Orthodox mum AMA

jewishorthomum · 2023-04-26T13:02:22+00:00

I'm a 29 yr old Jewish Orthodox religious mum of 2 little boys. Is there anything you'd like to ask about Orthodox Jewish life? Kill my time whilst I'm waiting to be called in for an appointment. (When I get called in for my app I'll have to run but will try respond later if there are questions.)

EllaDisenchanted · 27/04/2023 09:15

EllaDisenchanted · 27/04/2023 09:12

yes there is no requirement to cover hair pre marriage. There are separate beaches in Israel, and I would swim with my hair uncovered, and in a swimming costume there, or at separate swimming times at a pool (but I would fully cover up before going to the changing areas if I knew there would be men). Same with separate times at the gym, unless I thought I could be seen, in which case I would cover up.
completely forbidden. I have never tried shellfish, pork, macdonalds, milk and meat mixed etc. I am not particularly tempted either to be honest.
Botox is allowed for vanity. Going under the knife for vanity reasons is definitely done, no idea about any of the halachic reasoning for and against. Tattoos are not forbidden because of vanity, but because of a strict prohibition in Leviticus. It was also the practice of a particular group of idol worshippers, and anything akin to idolatry is very forbidden in Judaism. This is one of the many reasons why tattooing in the holocaust was a particularly repugnant thing to do.

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to add, if you are halachically Jewish, then I would consider you Jewish, regardless of observance level or your beliefs.

Original poster

jewishorthomum · 27/04/2023 09:16

AtChoService · 27/04/2023 06:45

How do Jews feel about Muslims because of this? If a few moved in to your street for example, would you interact with them and welcome them into your community or would they be shunned?

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I have a few Muslims on my street. We welcome them, are courteous and friendly towards them, they most definitely are not shunned, however there would be some distance. This isn't personal, its just that our lifestyle is usually very different than non-Jewish lifestyle and because of our history many are slightly cautious with getting too personal with non-Jews .

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Original poster

jewishorthomum · 27/04/2023 09:20

Inkpotlover · 27/04/2023 07:52

Thank you for such an interesting thread @jewishorthomum. I live near Stamford Hill and I didn't know much about the orthodox community there, so thank you for enlightening us.

I hope this isn't a silly question, but your comment about running made me wonder: don't you get really hot and uncomfortable wearing a wig over your real hair? I mean, we had a 40 degree heatwave in London last summer and the idea of wearing one in that makes me feel faint!

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So when exercising or any time that I want to be more comfortable I wear a thin headscarf. And yes those wigs get really sweaty in the heat. Its not always easy covering your hair. On the flip side I always have a (usually) nicely done wig waiting for me in my cupboard. So no bad hair days.

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Xenia · 27/04/2023 09:21

I have not read the full thread to ask if the family is orthodox or ultra-orthodox(Hassidic). (I live in NW London and for some reason as a teenager read a lot of books about all this including (in English not Yiddish) and even read novels by Bashevis Singer. We are Catholics.

(By the way I am watching a good series on Netflix at the moment (I could not watch the other programme (Unorthodox) as did not like it for some reason - I stopped after half an episode) which others might like - Rough Diamonds - it is not expressly about the religious life but has the backdrop of that and is nicely done. As I did German A level I can even understand the yiddish in it to an extent (but certainly not Hebrew).)

meshuggeneh · 27/04/2023 09:23

Parkingt111 · 27/04/2023 00:32

@JeweyJew I seemed to have touched a nerve in regards to masjid ul aqsa
Although that may be your beliefs about it as Muslims we also strongly believe that masjid ul aqsa belongs to the Muslims as it rightfully is right now
It is our first qiblah and the third holiest mosque in Islam
It is a travesty that israeli police so often persecute and trouble the Muslims praying there especially in the holy month of ramadhan

Why do you think British Jews should have something to do with how Israeli police conduct themselves? Are you, as a Muslim, responsible for how the Saudi or Pakistani or Iranian police behave?

Bergmum · 27/04/2023 09:24

Clawdy · 27/04/2023 08:31

Still not answered! Unless I missed it....🙂

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Definitely possible. Probably more likely that they didn't even keep pictures of him hanging up on the wall.
As a close family members they would have been obligated to keep the mourning laws but I don't know about turning pictures around. That's not anything the law obligates, but may have come from strong feelings of hurt etc.

Original poster

jewishorthomum · 27/04/2023 09:24

testtrout · 27/04/2023 07:29

Thank you so much for this thread. So many of my questions covered, I have always been so fascinated by orthodox Jews.
I do think the way of dealing with a death sounds very sensible.
I have a question regarding the separation during your period and re coupling close to ovulation.
Do you notice more of one sex than the other in babies within the community?
There are thoughts around timing of sex affecting babies sex.

Also as being Jewish is linked to the mother , I assume you are not keen on your son's marrying non Jews? But if a daughter did would this be acceptable?
Also would you welcome non Jewish spouses and grandchildren into the family? Does this happen often within orthodox communities?
Thank you for taking time to answer these questions.

The intention is for ovulation, peak sexual libido and "mikva night" to all coincide to encourage procreation. I haven't noticed more of one sex over the other because of this.
Orthodox Jews would be really upset if their kids married out of the faith. Personally I would never disown or cut off from my kids, but it's seen as a tragedy.

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honeylulu · 27/04/2023 09:26

This has been absolutely fascinating. Thank you OP and the other contributors who have answered questions. I too am really curious about other cultures and I have had Muslim, Hindu and Sikh friends I have been able to ask about theirs but I do not know well anyone Jewish. I love Nigella's books and the traditional Jewish food sounds amazing.

I was wondering about you saying that you'd go on a beach holiday with female friends or relatives (I understand why your husband can't go somewhere women are in swimwear) but what are you allowed to wear on the beach? Do you have to remain fully clothed? Or could you wear a wetsuit/tunic combo like Muslim women sometimes wear?

I live in a town that has a small Jewish population (not orthodox) and we live very close to the only synagogue and see people walking there for Sabbath. There is no road-crossing if we pass and after my kids learnt about Judaism at school they started saying Shalom to them and were delighted when they said it back.

Some of my uni friends rented a house in Golders Green for a couple of years and they spoke highly of their Jewish landlord as being fair and reasonable. I visited several times and it felt like a very safe place.

Original poster

jewishorthomum · 27/04/2023 09:26

brogueish · 27/04/2023 08:19

Such an interesting thread. Thank you, I’ve learned a lot. I really appreciate your open and honest responses, the love and pride you have expressed for your faith, family and community is lovely to read about.

I’d like to ask whether you or your husband vote in UK elections? I ask because I have some JW extended family and as an insular community, they don’t. Thank you.

Yes of course we vote. I wonder why your Jewish relatives don't vote?

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AtChoService · 27/04/2023 09:28

jewishorthomum · 27/04/2023 09:16

I have a few Muslims on my street. We welcome them, are courteous and friendly towards them, they most definitely are not shunned, however there would be some distance. This isn't personal, its just that our lifestyle is usually very different than non-Jewish lifestyle and because of our history many are slightly cautious with getting too personal with non-Jews .

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So its wariness of all non-jews, not anything particular towards muslims.

As there are many, many sects, how would someone go about starting a new one? Is it frowned upon at all?

Elfblossom · 27/04/2023 09:29

Hello ...

1, Please can you explain, if possible, the Israel & Palestine conflict? It was/is used a lot to portray Jeremy Corbyn as antisemitic, is it only certain Jewish people that feel that way?

2, Have you ever doubted/lost/questioned your faith?

3, How is infertility treated in the Jewish community? (Not medically treated, as in how does the community react to, behave towards etc)

Thank you for this, I love AMAs

mirah2 · 27/04/2023 09:29

Ansjovis · 27/04/2023 09:11

Question on the period thing. If a woman's cycles are very short, such that she doesn't ever go 7 full days with no bleeding or discharge of any kind, what would happen? Is it the case of weighing things up, so the need for the 7 days is balanced against the fact that observing this means the couple could never have sex and thus never procreate?

There is a difference between a full on period and irregular spotting/staining.

Spotting/staining is treated a bit more leniently, and there are steps that a woman can take to avoid having to separate from her husband because of this. Not going to go into full details on a public forum, but if you are interested Google the laws of 'ketamim' on the Nishmat website.

This is a very complex area of Jewish law. Because of the sensitivity around woman's bodies/periods/sex life etc. it often isn't talked about very publicly either.

Hope that helps

Rocqueandrole · 27/04/2023 09:29

Are girls and boys treated differently as children or just after 13+? Is there a pressure to give birth to sons over daughters as there can be in other religions/cultures? Thank you for answering all these questions, it's been very educational

Original poster

jewishorthomum · 27/04/2023 09:30

Verysadatwork · 27/04/2023 08:28

Also fascinated.

OP.may I ask what you hope to achieve from the thread? Do you feel a kinship with other mothers or is it more that you feel your community will be safer if the underlying structures and motivations behind some of its practices are better understood? What’s your motivation?

I'm not sure to be honest. I was bored waiting for an appointment😆
Once I saw the massive interest and all the question that people have I feel its almost my duty to educate others. I also know that the only exposure some people have to Jewish life is through the media, which is usually a very negative and often distorted view. This hurts because I believe we're really not a bad people with many great values. And if it helps prevent anti semitism just a little than that'll be fantastic!

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Original poster

jewishorthomum · 27/04/2023 09:34

Clawdy · 27/04/2023 08:31

Still not answered! Unless I missed it....🙂

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Judaism is not only a lifestyle, its a identity and a heritage. When someone leave the faith or marries out it is seen as a tragedy. Orthodox Jews believe that Judaism is the best way for Jew to live and when someone drops that we grieve. Nowadays I don't think we actually sit and mourn but I know that traditionally we would sit shiva (mourning practices) when someone left the faith.

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Parkingt111 · 27/04/2023 09:34

@meshuggeneh I only mentioned Israeli police in response to the poster mentioning Israeli police should be allowed to enter masjid ul aqsa. She brought the Israeli police into the conversation not me

honeylulu · 27/04/2023 09:37

I have another question. Is it true that orthodox Jews don't believe in adoption (even within the faith)? I'm a solicitor and I'm thinking about a legal case I dealt with years ago where an orthodox family felt unable to deal with one of their children with specific medical needs. A fostering arrangement was acceptable but not adoption even though they did not intend to see the child again. I can't give any more detail obviously and hope I haven't said too much.

loefred · 27/04/2023 09:37

Lovely thread!

Irish Catholics have quick funerals - and the social function of the wake, Month's Mind and anniversary mass sounds similar.

How much unconscious antisemitism would you perceive in British and European culture - say, in folk culture and the heritage industry, in 'cultural Christianity' and Christians' assumption that they are uniquely virtuous, ideas about the economy and so on?

Inkpotlover · 27/04/2023 09:42

jewishorthomum · 27/04/2023 09:20

So when exercising or any time that I want to be more comfortable I wear a thin headscarf. And yes those wigs get really sweaty in the heat. Its not always easy covering your hair. On the flip side I always have a (usually) nicely done wig waiting for me in my cupboard. So no bad hair days.

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Thanks for the reply. This really is one of the most fascinating threads I've read on MN!

EllaDisenchanted · 27/04/2023 09:44

TicTac80 · 26/04/2023 18:52

This is a wonderful thread. Thank you so much for taking the time and having the patience to answer all of the questions asked. It has been so useful and informative to read. I'm Christian and from the Middle East originally. I have some questions, which I hope you don't mind answering.

For food, how would you prepare meals in order to keep everything kosher? I read what you had written about keeping things separate in the kitchen, and I understand that there are foods that you cannot eat. If I was to prepare some food for my friends who are Muslim, I would make something vegetarian or vegan just so that I am sure that it would be suitable and not haram. If I was to prepare food for a friend who is Jewish, what would be suitable? I do understand that Orthodox Jews wouldn't be able to have anything from my home! I often bring food in to share with workmates (and I would always give the list of ingredients used). We fast (go vegan) for many days of our own religious calendar so I understand the importance of observing these rules.

For patients in hospital, who are Jewish, how best can I - as a nurse - support them?

Sorry, these sound like such stupid questions!! Thank you again for starting this thread :)

Hi @TicTac80 not stupid questions at all. The rules and requirements around Kashrus are long and very complex, and it is not just about ingredients, but also the status of the kitchen, the pots etc and a lot more. My friend is a nurse in New York, and she was really touched recently when a nonJewish colleague specially brought in Kosher sweets for some celebration. Because it was wrapped and clearly marked with an acceptable hechsher (kosher certification) she could join in.

Patients in hospital - I never felt being Jewish affected the care I or my children received in the NHS.

meshuggeneh · 27/04/2023 09:45

@Parkingt111
She said that you shouldn't badmouth Jews if Israeli police enter the Temple Mount.
Kind of obvious, no?

Whatever you might think, the fact is that Israel is the civil authority in Jerusalem and therefore Israeli police have jurisdiction. Until such a time as this changes, it's Israeli police who are the law enforcement arm. But this has nothing to do with British Jews just like British Muslims are not responsible for the far far worse behaviour of Muslim countries like Pakistan, Iran, Sudan and Saudi Arabia.

IClaudine · 27/04/2023 09:45

jewishorthomum · 27/04/2023 01:36

There are varying views and I'm no expert in this area. The final messiah will come one day when there has been enough good deeds done within the world. His purpose will be to bring the world into a better state with no more suffering, hardships and clarity.
I understand Christianity focuses on the Messiah a lot. Judaism doesn't really (other than the Chabad sector) Messiah isn't the motivation for good deeds, rather our relationship with God is.

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I am not at all religious, but I really like this. If we all do enough good deeds the world will indeed be made better, whether via a messiah or not. It is a good basic principle to live by.

Original poster

jewishorthomum · 27/04/2023 09:47

SisterAgatha · 27/04/2023 08:38

Thank you for answering re why I have been ignored by Jewish men. I have to say, and I don’t mean to be rude, but I find the averting of the gaze of the men and the obvious ignoring of 50% of the public quite rude and disrespectful. I know this is not personal choice, the men are simply following rules but…

Being considered not a full person but simply a walking vessel that at any time and without knowing, may tempt a man from virtue is quite dehumanising and derogatory. “Excuse me please” is not “I’d like to have sex with you”

When a woman ages and become less attractive, will they be looked upon? Would a stranger be helped if they fell in the street and were female for instance?

I hear why you would feel disrespected by men who seem to be avoiding you simply because you're a female. But once you know the reasoning behind it perhaps you can view it as simply a self imposed boundary that they have put in place to protect their marriage. The same way that Judaism doesn't even allow men and women to give handshakes to the opposite gender. Do we really see handshakes as a sensual act? No, we don't, its an extra boundary to keep the gender separation. Again most orthodox men will be okay with interacting with women if needed such as for work, appointments etc.

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Original poster

jewishorthomum · 27/04/2023 09:47

@SisterAgatha And yes of course anyone would help someone who's fallen, male or female!

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pitterypattery00 · 27/04/2023 09:50

Are there different types of synagogue for the different branches of Judaism? How do the services differ between them if so? (Sorry I don't know if 'service' is the right word). Thank you for an enlightening thread.