I would be a bad mum... if I still lived in Germany! Or: differences in traditions and guidelines

[dodi1978]

I am German, but have lived in the UK for 10 years. In fact, I had somehow acquired a husband, a house and a baby at pretty much exactly 10 years after arrived on an Easyjet flight with one suitcase . Said baby is now almost eight months old.

But that's not relevant here...

What is relevant is the fact that I am a terrible mum! Yes I am! At least if I am judge myself against German guidelines on weaning.

In the UK, the three rules seem to be:

1. Start around six months of age.
2. Avoid salt and sugar.
3. Don't give honey and nuts (ok, and a couple of other things, but the list is small).

And then, there is of course BLW vs. purees etc.

In Germany, BLW seems to be something that nobody has ever heard of. Even friends who have had babies recently seem to be utterly puzzled when I mentioned that some parents don’t give their baby any purees at all.

I’m doing a mixture of purees and finger food, having the little one eat what we eat whenever possible. But according to German guidance, I seem to have got it wrong, because, apparently, babies should have

• A potato – vegetable – meat – puree at lunchtime
• A milk – cereal – broth in the evening
• And a cereal – fruit broth in the morning

Ahem, fail!!! My pancakes with blueberry compote in the morning (which we only have occasionally, by the way) just don’t pass muster.

There are all kinds of other rules and guidelines as well, e.g. that that you should add rapeseed oil (no olive oil before one year!) to certain foods and how much and, oh yes, no yogurt before 10 months (fail!) etc. etc.

Sometimes, dear MNers, I am glad I am living in the UK! I don’t do well with rigid rules. Even the Pampers website has completely different guidance on weaning, when you look at the UK and the German version.

But this made me think… if you are from another country, or have raised a child in another country, what differences have you noticed in the guidance given and in the practice around birth, food, sleep, toilet training etc. as compared to the UK?

I am just asking this out of interest! It’d be great to hear your stories!

In Poland:
Babies and children wear hats, covering their ears well, even in July if it happens to be slightly windy.
You are supposed to keep strict diet when breasfeeding, so for instance cabbage, beans are not allowed as they might give baby a tummy ache. The list of forbidden foods goes on and on (including dougnuts, cherries, any fried food, chocolate, etc). But apparently milky tea (not normally drunk) is very good for mother's milk.
Tights (for both boys and girls) are a must, even when the weather is mild, or if child stays indoors (it's a winter outfit and simply must be worn).

In Algeria
I got stange looks for putting my children to bed at a resonable time of 8 pm. Also insisting that my younger one is in a car seat got me bad reputation. They thought I was strange because I always made sure my 6 year old had her seatbelt fastened when travelling in the car (completely alien idea to them).

This thread is great.
There was something on the World Health Organisation website a few years ago that followed 6-7women across the world, they had an interview during pregnancy, after the birth and when the child was a few months old. That was really interesting.

I lived and worked in Germany for a couple of years a fair few years ago and was shocked at the rigidity and the obedience to rules over there.

Having to stand at the pedestrian crossing until the green man came on despite a totally empty road was completely confusing!

No experience of child rearing there but the slack arse way us Brits drag free and intuitive way we bring up our children must be most confusing!

The WHO feature is called Great Expecatations and was from 2005, it's still on their website.

I would not call British way slack arse, quite the opposite actually. During playdates or similar, British parents are supposed to hover over children, interact with them constantly, follow them around playgrounds, manage issues with other children etc. Anything else and you will read threads on MN about neglectful parents just sitting there, while someone else had to entertain their children.

French children are just left to their own devices while parents have coffee. Anything else and you're an overprotective hen mother, who won't allow the child to become independent.

Bulgaria - one rule I liked for clothing for babies - one layer less in the summer, one layer more in winter.

DP from Scotland made dd wear a balaclava through most of her babyhood (in London).

My relatives live in Italy. I think because the birth rate is so low the children are total little prince and princesses. You often see one child + parents + four grandparents + several aunts/uncles out and about. The child is never having a particularly nice time as they are trussed up like a 17th century aristocrat and being shouted at not to scuff their 200 Euro shoes.

Agree that state employees are having a laugh. One relative discovered gleefully that her ds had a milk allergy. This afforded her five years off work.

And yy to the eternally young children. I know so many 40-somethings living in the sitting room. Mamas feel really sorry for anyone who has actually got married or had a baby and consequently feel the need to do absolutely everything for them.

YY to the tights - we also got told off at the nursery for not having wooly tights for DS and once again they are incredibly practical.

Oh and the wool breast pads (definitely a wool theme in Norway) when I read up on them and started using them they are brilliant - self antibacterialising and you guessed it incredibly practical.

I'm loving this thread!

I got horrified looks from my French relatives at my BLW 11 month old eating proper "adult" French food (smart girl).

Then at 20 months when I was pregnant again and still BFing her, I thought my older aunties were going to pass out when I mentioned it! My younger cousins were less visibly shocked, but still very surprised. oh and DD was the only child among 5, including some 2 years older, who ate her food without any fuss

To be honest we did get strange looks from my English in laws about BLW, whilst my German mother thought it was a great idea. So whilst the English don't tend to worry about minute details of what's in the food, the idea that a 5 months old can just chew on an asparagus spear instead of being spoonfed mush does discombobulate them too.

Hi my Dh is Albanian and i am English I have managed to shock by
Not dressing my children in enough clothes - I helped my niece with the loo and she seven layers on and it was in the late teens
Bottle feeding my youngest - this caused great concern and we had to explain the regulations etc
Putting my children in their own rooms at 6 months
Having a routine with bedtime at 7 - unheard of
Blw - this again caused great concern
Having slim children - the fatter they are the healthier they are. My nephew is 8 and. 46kg
Saying no - but it makes them cry
Putting them in car seats - safer in my arms apparently
Not agreeing to circumcise my boys - culture rather religion
Putting baby down on rug on floor
Having toys out and leaving them to play

With regards to food the only thing we agree on is no honey before one other than that we are at loggerheads. They see no harm in salty food or excess sweets or chocolate. No lumps before 2. My sil, who lives here, says she can't believe the variety they eat or that I give them the same food as us. My boys are one and four.

My spanish cousins' babies are weaned on cereals mixed into their bottles (with the teats cut bigger) until they move onto beef steak chops at around the age of two years. One had his secons birthday party in a cider house.

My parents and grandma are Indian but live in the uk.
When my dbros twins were born my gran was aghast that they'd need carseats to come home from the hospital ('why? She has a perfectly good set of arms to carry them. Plus when enormouse was born 25 years ago we put her on the parcel shelf/in the footwell/boot)
Also much alarm when my dbro changed nappies and made up bottles as men didn't do that. Men also can't know woman have periods.

I remember the kajal in the eyes a pp mentioned. To make the eyes more beautiful, apparently.

An old Indian lady I met a few days after DS1 was born told me I needed to shave off (his full head of dark curly) hair so it would grow back thicker. Needless to say, I didn't and DS1 has so much hair he needs monthly trims.

I also shouldn't insist on DS1 being in his own bed at 2.5 and DS2 being put down in his own crib. They need to be in bed with me, whenever I decide to go to sleep is fine. DNieces needed a double bed each, with a parent each to do this. They're almost 5 and as far as I'm aware still do this. (I'm not against co sleeping btw, did it with DS for 10 months but bed sharing with him as a toddler would mean no one would sleep)

The waiter considered for a moment and then recommended the lemon sole. I love it.

I remembered something else - practically bubble wrapping kids

When Dnieces were about two I bought them (an age appropriate) wooden toy - I think it was an ark with animals. They were playing away nicely and one of them managed to nut herself with a wooden elephant. Cue a short lived burst of tears which abated fairly quickly but I was descended on by dbro, his wife and my mum who confiscated the ark for being 'too dangerous'. I just sat there slightly stunned.

I also had the whiskers cut off any cuddly toy by my dm in case I poked myself in the eye with them.

I know a Nigerian woman who used to chew her baby's food and spit it back into her mouth (in a mama-bird-like, nurturing way) when she didn't have baby food to hand.

Also another that sucked the snot out from a baby's nose rather than use a tissue.

Both sound vile but actually for a baby it's probably more effective than using unsterilised utensils and rough tissues.

I'm going to nominate this for classics. :) Great thread.

My parents are Indian but I was born and brought up here in the UK. DH is white and English. My SIL (married to DH's brother) gave me the Baby Whisperer when pregnant and loves it. I (in my naivete) thought it was the manual for bringing up a baby and spent ages trying to put DD down in the crib and following the breastfeeding routine. I got seriously depressed, was nearly the end of breastfeeding and then thought 'sod it' and just went with my indian instincts. My English DMIL and DSIL think I'm completely mad for the following:

1. DH and I don't leave DD to cry - even for 5 minutes.
2. I'll (and DH) rock, cuddle and sing her to sleep (I also used to feed her to sleep before she self weaned at bedtime) - they think we've made a rod for our backs. What they don't realise is that we actually really enjoy this time with her (we are also slightly evil for working full time and commuting).
3. We co-sleep with her (she's 14 months). Again, I love it - that's when we bond but I'm also really lucky that she doesn't kick or squirm. This is the way she also sleeps through.
4. I didn't wean DD until she was 6mo and I didn't puree everything (spoon refuser!).

Halfling I think it's very true that the generations have a bigger gulf than cultures sometimes. My DM and DF are both older parents (they were around 40 when I was born) and they think breastfeeding is so important for as long as the baby/child wants it. DM even remembers nursing from her mum (so she must have been at least 3yo) and gets a little teary - it was a really special bond for her. When DD wasn't really that interested in solids at first, my DParents were the ones reassuring me that she got plenty of nutrition from BM.

According to my MIL from a Middle eastern-ish culture, I risked the life of my dcs by:

• going barefoot when pregnant in plus thirty degree heat because I would 'catch a cold in my ovaries and damage the baby'
• refusing to add a little salt to the baby's milk. 'It makes them thirsty so they drink more and get stronger.'
• refusing to dress my dcs in several wool layers when they are red and sweating from heat as they will obviously catch a cold from by sweating
• allowing my baby to lose a sock when travelling through an airport. The air-conditioning would obviously freeze his foot off.
• allowing my older children to play with water from a hosepipe again in mid thirties temps. Obviously once again they would catch a cold and die.

Other areas where the In laws all smiled and laughed at me behind my back about my strange foreign ways included my insisting on dcs wearing seatbelts, refusing to travel in a car with a drunk driver, having bed times, not spoonfeeding my dcs until the age of 5 (I've even seen parents coming into school at lunch times to spoon feed their 6 year olds) and my allowing my boys to run around pushing a dolls pram in case it made them gay.

I was in Spain with dd - I was weird because:

• not piercing her ears
• ignoring the very strict list of weaning guidelines specifying exactly what food could be given on what week post weaning (followed UK much simpler guidelines!)
• not wrapping her in umpteen jumpers
• no socks!
• carrying her around in a sling (but she'll be so hot!) erm, maybe it will cancel out the lack of jumpers (but she'll be so cold!)

Extended breastfeeding seemed pretty uncommon (b/f til 20 months), but I got loads of really positive comments on it from older women about how she would grow up much stronger and better as a result, never had any negative vibes no matter where I fed :)

My older Irish relatives insist you should add bleach to the bath water to get rid of 'worms' in children. They think the reason DS is so thin is because he doesn't bathe in bleach and is therefore riddled with worms.

Not sure if that's an Irish thing though or just my mad family

I am English and work with a Nigerian guy and we have a third colleague who is English and expecting his first baby. He was asking for tips. We both have three children of similar ages.

I mentioned that we found cranial osteopathy very useful for our first, who wouldn't lie on his back, after a difficult birth and got badly stuck and bashed around. So much so that with the second two we immediately took them to a cranial osteoptah as newborns as well to "optimize" their skulls and any misalignment caused by the birth. All have been good sleepers from early on and I was saying that I think the cranial osteopathy may have helped. New Father was asking ok great who do I need to see, ok a cranial osteopath with a specific extra qualification in treating newborns, right, got it.

My Nigerian colleague started laughing and saying, see, this illustrates the difference between the Western and Nigerian approach to getting newborns to sleep - you take them to extra qualified cranial osteopath, we just give them to the old lady in the village for half an hour to sort out their bones!

Yep, I recognise the Kohl thing. My mum made some for DD- homemade stuff that had rose water and almond oil in it. Admittedly it cooled you down in a hot climate. And I have used it on DD as well, when she turned two.

No cribs, moses baskets or cots. Only baby hammocks made of the softest yet sturdiest muslin. Apparently good for a baby's developing spine. I hunted high and low for a baby hammock manufacturer in the UK and did find one. DD was a brilliant sleeper because of it.

Nappies are very much frowned upon. Disposables, I mean. Washable cloths are fine, but I still cannot understand the point of a "nappy" that was nothing more than a fig leaf really. Absolutely did NOT prevent accidents or hold anything in. Parents seem to change this cloth "nappy" every half hour.

Circus daredevil riders were not a patch on fathers zipping through traffic on motorbikes. With mum riding side-saddle on the back. With a three month old on her lap.

I am half German.

German children seem to wear lots of layers - vests, long johns, fleeces, thick socks, proper boots with fleece linings, hats, scarves, gloves, and so on. They will put this lot on even to pop to the shops.

English children wear coats very occasionally, clearly preferring to tough it out, even if it's -5C and snowing, unless their mothers are particularly keen on outer layers.

Consequently German parents think English parents send their children to school practically naked.

German children seem to immediately remove shoes the minute they see a carpet, and put on extremely expensive slippers with little zips, hand made out of organic felt.

English children will occasionally remember to put slippers on but they tend to be nasty nylon things with Angry Birds depicted all over them, and things like that. Often you can only buy slippers in the UK around Christmas time as they are traditionally associated with the holiday season, for some bizarre reason.

German children will enthusiastically eat a big bowl of salad every time they have a main meal. They are salad connoisseurs.

English children will look at salad mistrustfully as though it has been left there by aliens, and they will only eat it if they are bribed or threatened.

German children will fling themselves down mountains and into random bodies of water on the slightest pretext, from the age of about two. They can all swim and ski and generally comport themselves with serious coolness when out of doors.

English children cry at the merest sight of a bee, wasp or moth; express distress when invited into the outdoors, and require health and safety slips in order to walk 5 metres away from their parents.

I could go on.