I would be a bad mum... if I still lived in Germany! Or: differences in traditions and guidelines

[dodi1978]

I am German, but have lived in the UK for 10 years. In fact, I had somehow acquired a husband, a house and a baby at pretty much exactly 10 years after arrived on an Easyjet flight with one suitcase . Said baby is now almost eight months old.

But that's not relevant here...

What is relevant is the fact that I am a terrible mum! Yes I am! At least if I am judge myself against German guidelines on weaning.

In the UK, the three rules seem to be:

1. Start around six months of age.
2. Avoid salt and sugar.
3. Don't give honey and nuts (ok, and a couple of other things, but the list is small).

And then, there is of course BLW vs. purees etc.

In Germany, BLW seems to be something that nobody has ever heard of. Even friends who have had babies recently seem to be utterly puzzled when I mentioned that some parents don’t give their baby any purees at all.

I’m doing a mixture of purees and finger food, having the little one eat what we eat whenever possible. But according to German guidance, I seem to have got it wrong, because, apparently, babies should have

• A potato – vegetable – meat – puree at lunchtime
• A milk – cereal – broth in the evening
• And a cereal – fruit broth in the morning

Ahem, fail!!! My pancakes with blueberry compote in the morning (which we only have occasionally, by the way) just don’t pass muster.

There are all kinds of other rules and guidelines as well, e.g. that that you should add rapeseed oil (no olive oil before one year!) to certain foods and how much and, oh yes, no yogurt before 10 months (fail!) etc. etc.

Sometimes, dear MNers, I am glad I am living in the UK! I don’t do well with rigid rules. Even the Pampers website has completely different guidance on weaning, when you look at the UK and the German version.

But this made me think… if you are from another country, or have raised a child in another country, what differences have you noticed in the guidance given and in the practice around birth, food, sleep, toilet training etc. as compared to the UK?

I am just asking this out of interest! It’d be great to hear your stories!

Next step DXB ;-)

Actually I'm having to get my cycling legs back after 8 months off (DS2 has been very sick) and it's hard work!

I didn't use the baby box so much when the boys were older (more as toy storage at that point) but when it was at the higher level it was just so useful. I used to wonder where mothers in the non box-using countries PUT their babies when making a cup of tea etc....

I guess that unfortunately playpens like all tools of convenience can be misused.
Another thing in Norway, and I think this might have been briefly mentioned before in this thread, is the generous parental leave. When I had my son last year, we got 57 weeks parental leave with 80% pay. And 12 of these weeks has to be taken by by my husband or we loose it. The remaining weeks are split between a number of weeks that I have to take and a period where we can split the weeks as we see fit. The most common though is that the mum takes all the weeks that are not dad's weeks. There is also an option to have 100% pay for a shorter period, I think 47 weeks.
Also every child above 1 year of age are entitled to a place in nursery until they start school. And a full time place in nursery costs just over £200,- per month, which is regarded as quite affordable. If you have several children in nursery you get a discount.
And, there is an extra child-support allowance of £500,- per month if your child is not in nursery, this will increase to £600,- the coming autumn. However, I think you can only get this when your child is between one and two/three (?) years old. Most people do prefer to use a nursery, but as you generally do not get a place before August the year the child turns one you can get this allowance while you are waiting for the child to start nursery. This allowance comes on top of the £97 that you get per month as child-support.

blonde ... in the Netherlands my husband gets a stunning TWO days paid paternity leave.

Yep. That's all. 2 days. And the right to take 5 days unpaid leave in the next 5 years, or something liek that

I do like the greater freedom than you get in the UK though (though I struggle not to worry) and I love the way 3 year olds can cycle. Was so proud of our mite when he cycled himself to peuterspeelzal =). At 5, he's cycled 21km to grandad Kees'!

I really must move to Norway.

We use play pens in the US, at least in my part of it. I took ours down recently b/c there's just not enough room and I miss it.

Yes Blonde it's not the too but the user that is wrong, but the Tool gets a bad press.

That parental leave is stunning. Here in Chile there are good provisiones for sickness during pregnancy and leave but employers never seem To have enough staff on the books To have To provide it. So many self employed people and sub devitions you see

I love this thread, I looked for something like this to read as reassurance that things are done differently all around the world but it is an untapped area of publishing, despite the "French Children don;t throw food" and other such books etc etc
In Australia I think there is a full range of practises but it varies according to ethnic background, family history and income. My experiences in the public (state) health system have been very different to my wealthier friends who gave birth privately.
But a few common experiences: you are not allowed to leave hospital unless your car has a properly fitted child seat. Breastfeeding is strongly encouraged, but I think there more sensitivity about it in recent years. There has been a real fad for Baby Whisperer/Gina Ford type routines, but again that is waning - we personally have been very attachment parenting style, but frankly my love for that is wearing off too!
We are now in or approaching the education years and there is very very strong encouragement to "hold back" younger children. That is, they may be legally allowed to start school (at the age of 5 or nearly 5) but the trend is to wait until at least 5 and a half, 6 or older. This can't be legqally enforced but it might as well be, there is so much pressur especially for boys.
This will apply to us so our youngest won't start school til 6. We can afford to wait the extra year but many probably would rather not.

mcgilly this thing about boys starting school later is this influenced by the author of the book "Raising boys"? He is Australian isn't he? I read his book and remeber he was saying that boys should start school a year or so later than girls. I don't think I have ever heard it or read about this anywhere else.

McGilly it's the same in America. Kids can start kindergarten if they are 5 by September 1st. But almost everyone is holding back their DC with summer birthdays, especially boys.

DS's birthday is in July and he didn't go to kindergarten til 6.

Blonde no I don't think it's strongly influenced by the Raisi g Boys book which was reased quite a few years ago here ... It's a broader trend. I think schools are also loathe to "hold kids back" a year later in their schooling, so the advice from all quarters - school, kinder, child health - is to delay if you can. However this means a child may have done up to three years of "play- based" kinder first (as my son will do) and that ranges from six to fifteen hours a week.

That's what mine did. He started preschool at three and had it Tuesdays and Thursdays, just for two hours each day. Then at 4 he had it 10 hours a week, then at 5 it was 12 hrs/week.

I don't regret holding him til 6. He's doing very well in kindergarten and I liked giving him that last year at home with me.

Thus - I would be a bad mum here in Australia if I sent my son to school when he was legally allowed at the age of 4 (nearly 5!)

Joining in late! I've been reading the thread for a day or two now, really interesting as I've thought about these types of differences before. DH's family are from the West Indies but settled in the UK years ago. My family is mainly British, but with some family (and friends) from South America.

To my British relatives, I'm odd for:

• putting DS to bed around 8pm, it's far too late.
• BLW, because DC won't really eat anything of course.
• occasionally cosleeping in newborn days, its dangerous/creates bad habits.

To S. Americans:

• not using a raincover all of the time on the pram, it's for cold air protection too!
• not forcing DC to wear socks and shoes indoors (doesn't like them and gets sweaty feet).
• not bfing when DC was newborn (um, I had no milk)...
• ...and not extending ffing; moved fully to cup by 11mo, cow's milk by 12mo, so he can't possibly be getting the nutrients he needs only found in formula and he would clearly much prefer a bottle.
• not considering private health care, so that I can see a paediatrician whenever.
• not being overly protective of DC head in the first year, and not panicking at the inevitable bumps and scrapes ( a lot of sharp intaking of breath around us).

To West Indians:

• DC need much more fat!

To all:

• cloth nappies.

Makes the S. Ams look the most fussy but it's just because I am around them the most. There are plenty more but that will do for now

My DB went off to boarding school a couple of weeks after I got back from a summer in Germany. I got him a Schultuete to take with him.

January

I'm in Chile, people here use a thin blanket over the pushchair/buggy/baby's head. I always thought it was To protect again the sun but it could be for cold air too and smog

YY To running To the Dr. for every minor ailment or bump, and yes it has To be prívate. Although To be fair there does seem To be a difference here.

Friends are horrified that their DCs remove shoes in our house, DH is a clean freak.

That's some powerful marketing from the food giants re the formula, I see a vast array of formulas for toddlers, young children and older people in the shops, but not much for infants.

DF is Indian, so plenty of Indian relatives telling me what to do.
During pregnancy:
-- Do not ever drive a car (never knew why)
-- Do not ever eat papayas (not like they are that easily available here anyway)
-- Best to not go out at all the entire 9 months, if not at least the last 40 days.
Could only follow the papaya one inadvertently since there weren't any to be had
After childbirth:
-- Honey at birth (didn't do that one)
-- Baby led weaning (did my best but gave up at 1 yr old, feeling slightly proud of the achievement, only to have horrified aunts chorus their disapproval and prophecy malnutrition for the poor child)
-- Shaving the head (did it, DD has decent hair, we'll never know what might have happened otherwise)
-- Cloth nappies, or leave the kid naked on a blanket, and constantly wash blankets (didn't even consider that one, but I know people do it all the time there)
-- Co-sleeping apparently till she is ten or something (Did till she was two, apparently not long enough)
-- Kohl for the eyes (it does cool the eyes in hot weather, not so much here though)
-- Ear piercing (still haven't done it, get reminders every time I visit)
-- Never leave the child to cry (easy in a household of ten members, impossible alone)
As DD grows I get a different set of rules, academic expectations are ridiculous. So she's 4 and should know the entire alphabet in two languages, basic addition, subtraction, have the vocabulary of an encyclopedia, have at least an hour a day handwriting practice, know several songs by heart, etc etc.
I have clearly failed DD in all academic criteria but she did shock me by writing PLATYPUS the other day so all is not lost.

DH on the other hand is all French, so DMIL gave me grief for:
-- breastfeeding at all
-- letting DD have dessert even though she didn't finish her plate (it was one slice of carrot out of a full plate but apparently its the start down the slippery slope)
-- not using cooking separately for DD and giving her mostly the same food as us
-- DD not using the baby words like dodo for sleep (dormir) and lolo for milk (lait), apparently its inappropriate for children to use the same words as grown-ups. Of course then DFIL used `merde' in front of her and she happily picked that grown-up word up.

Adora I agree, I think if you come from a culture where you're used to paying for health care, or have to especially to see someone decent, then doing the NHS approach of seeing a GP for most things and for free probably seems a bit odd or not going to be good.

If not using a pram or with older kids, they get a towel or blanket draped over their heads when going from building to car Adults wear scarves even in mild weather, the mouth and nose have to be covered for ultimate protection.

The formula is what surprises me the most. Typically they do so much in the way of home cooked fresh food, natural remedies, but they're adamant that regular cow's milk isn't sufficient for growing infants. Over here most can afford formula, but back home if they can't then kids get panela in bottles (like molasses dissolved in water). That being said, most people I know from S. Am (one country mainly) do like to take lots of vitamin supplements, and it's common to use purgatives regularly, so I think there's a general preoccupation with getting enough vitamins.

Another thing:

• gas and air. I clutched on to it for a good 7h and it worked brilliantly No idea why that wasn't good but they're not in there with me so I'm not too concerned!
• another no hair cutter here. Apparently it's why DS doesnt have much hair. I think it may be more down to genetics as DH and I were tge same as infants but both now have a lot of thick hair, I think DS will be fine.

McGilly, I'd be even worse, DS was only a month past his 4th birthday when he started school. As he has an August birthday I could have kept him out of school until the term after his fifth birthday, but then he would have jumped straight into year 1 missing reception.

It saved me about £12k of child care costs though!

Reading this thread has reminded me of the dangers of wet hair even in summer! According to my mother you should never go outside with wet hair and to be on the safe side, because your scalp is so sensitive after a hair wash, you should really stay indoors for at least 12 hours

I also just remembered that raw green beans will definitely poison and send you to an early grave, as long as your German.

Really enjoying this thread, OP.

My Indian family members showed great concern in the early days of DS' life when it was inadvertently revealed to them by DM that the baby wasn't latching on (we eventually succeeded but after a lot of help from our wonderful local NHS breastfeeding support worker). And yet the first thing that the same family members asked me when they met us was 'you are of course topping him up, right?' i.e. with formula. Why on earth would I do that if we're bfing successully now? But it seems to be the norm there - top up if not with formula then with cows' milk, as soon as possible basically. Goes against everything I've been told here about successful bfing.

OP, regarding toilet training, there is a fascinating method used in India, which I had totally forgotten about until I had DS. From a very early age, they condition babies to associate a certain sound (e.g. a hissing sound, as if you were calling a cat!), with weeing. So you hold the baby, sans nappy, over a toilet and make this hissing sound - and lo and behold, baby will wee straight into the bowl. You time it so it's let's say, an hour after a milk feed. Saves nappies for sure (cloth nappies are still the norm there, which I certainly hope continues to be the norm) and seems to work later on when it comes to full-on potty training e.g. for a 2 year old.

Weaning is an interesting one too. Every Indian child I know has food issues - parents running around the house behind them, trying to get them to finish their meal. Highchairs are unheard of - every baby is spoonfed purees and bland foods for what feels like forever. My cousin's DD (see below too) was offered the same (somewhat nutritious) meal over and over again, every time I ever saw them, untit least the age of 3. No wonder she would wander off at mealtimes.

Co-sleeping is also the norm - although you could argue that it's the norm in the UK as well, if the MN sleep forum is anything to go by. I was surprised recently when visiting my cousin, who had just moved from a small apartment to a rather large house, to find his 4 year old still sleeping in the same room as the parents; the child's 'room' was a playroom but not a room where the child would sleep. Attachment parenting or what.

Saying all that, my parents have been very supportive of our parenting decisions e.g. no co-sleeping, move baby into his own room at 3 months, feed on a 3 hour schedule rather than purely on demand, do a dream feed, move to primarily finger foods at 7 mo etc. They view it as progress rather than a kick in the teeth for their culture. But I know plenty here on MN who would call me a bad mum for those decisions too.

After 3 years I am now more in line with the way things are done here in NZ (English by birth and in NZ with DSs 11 and 9) but am still taken aback on occasion.

Children here often don't own a coat, or shoes until they go to school. Even then shoes are only necessary for the walk to school and home again. Jumpers are only for the weak. A school bag balanced on the head is sufficient protection from all weathers.

If there aren't two or three broken bones in a class of children there must be something wrong. Paediatric A&E visits get you a high-five (for parents and children); a plastered limb is a badge of honour; and a long term head injury brings everyone's own accident history out for the edification of the injured child and its parents.

Children can be raised entirely on cocktail sausages and tomato ketchup.

I still struggle with a British concern that children be warm and dry, uninjured and encouraged to eat a little more widely. No real horror from Kiwis about my ways though. They are far too laid back for it to matter.

WidowWadman

IME the following are proven as giving babies of German heritage permanent stomach damage:

Cold ice cream - needs to be mushed up a bit so melting and rather yukky
Cold milk on cereal - needs to be warmed up a bit before being poured in the bowl. Until children are about 15.

Tap water runs the risk of giving small people cholera, so only bottled water is acceptable.

Medicines are evil so you go to the (modern) pharmacy and ask for a special herbal tea to be mixed up for most conditions. They usually taste vile and do absolutely nothing.

Oh god the hissing sound for toilet training Indian babies. I got that advice from numerous aunts. It didn't work for a second with DD (must be the French and Brit sides of her playing it off), but lord it worked like a charm on me. DF finally admitted to having trained me with it.