I would be a bad mum... if I still lived in Germany! Or: differences in traditions and guidelines

[dodi1978]

I am German, but have lived in the UK for 10 years. In fact, I had somehow acquired a husband, a house and a baby at pretty much exactly 10 years after arrived on an Easyjet flight with one suitcase . Said baby is now almost eight months old.

But that's not relevant here...

What is relevant is the fact that I am a terrible mum! Yes I am! At least if I am judge myself against German guidelines on weaning.

In the UK, the three rules seem to be:

1. Start around six months of age.
2. Avoid salt and sugar.
3. Don't give honey and nuts (ok, and a couple of other things, but the list is small).

And then, there is of course BLW vs. purees etc.

In Germany, BLW seems to be something that nobody has ever heard of. Even friends who have had babies recently seem to be utterly puzzled when I mentioned that some parents don’t give their baby any purees at all.

I’m doing a mixture of purees and finger food, having the little one eat what we eat whenever possible. But according to German guidance, I seem to have got it wrong, because, apparently, babies should have

• A potato – vegetable – meat – puree at lunchtime
• A milk – cereal – broth in the evening
• And a cereal – fruit broth in the morning

Ahem, fail!!! My pancakes with blueberry compote in the morning (which we only have occasionally, by the way) just don’t pass muster.

There are all kinds of other rules and guidelines as well, e.g. that that you should add rapeseed oil (no olive oil before one year!) to certain foods and how much and, oh yes, no yogurt before 10 months (fail!) etc. etc.

Sometimes, dear MNers, I am glad I am living in the UK! I don’t do well with rigid rules. Even the Pampers website has completely different guidance on weaning, when you look at the UK and the German version.

But this made me think… if you are from another country, or have raised a child in another country, what differences have you noticed in the guidance given and in the practice around birth, food, sleep, toilet training etc. as compared to the UK?

I am just asking this out of interest! It’d be great to hear your stories!

RE: The tights for boys.

I'm an infant teacher, and often get the boys from Eastern Euro and African countries rocking up with tights under their trousers in the dead of winter. It struck me as strange at first (but of course I never said anything about it), but now it's quite normal. However, once the boys get to Year 1 and beyond, it seems to stop. I think as the kids and parents twig that here tights are seen as "girl clothes".

Ooh, Sangria, thank you for posting! Saved me having to repeat and agree with everything you said!

Il colpo di vento is my favourite .... A deadly breath of fresh air that is responsible, amongst other things, for colds, vomiting, stomach aches etc etc. Colds require antibiotics (give them out like sweeties to kids) and of course that essential visit to A&E.

When my in laws came over to the UK to 'help' when I was 8 months pregnant, my niece got a cold (caught because they overdress her, don't take her jacket off when on tube etc). Their solution was to turn the central heating up to Max, keep her wrapped up, and when she started sweating so much her hair got wet, use the hair dryer to dry it. Surprised they don't use leeches. They also rang us at 3am to say DN had a fever (never a cold) and could we check flights back home.

A friend's little nephew was recently knocked unconscious in a car accident. He had been sitting in the front seat with no seat belt. I was deemed cruel for wanting to put my sleeping 4 month old DS in a car seat when I should have been holding him in my arms.

Italians love children, but restaurants have no changing facilities and high chairs are very rare.

Fascinating read!

In Russia: Babies should nap outside during the day, or at least on the balcony. Up to -15 degrees is absolutely fine and good for health.

No disposable nappies in the house for the older baby-skin should "breath". Potty training should be done by 12-15 months old. 2 year old in the disposable nappy may be called some rude names.

No bottle from around 10-12 months, should always drink from the cup.
No dummy after 12 month, no thumb sucking- even a small baby may receive a smack on the hand.

No pushchair after 2yo, should walk everywhere. Again, good for health.

When the child is constipated, enema is your saviour.

Also should always wear shoes inside the house, ideally with ankle support, to prevent the flat feet. Considering with the rule "no disposable nappies inside the house", you will need several pairs of shoes.
For older child, slippers should be worn all the time inside the house, as cold floor is deadly for the little's ones health and can ruin kidneys.

Hat should be worn outside even when it is +18 degrees. Common belief is that's how you will get meningitis.

Soup should be put on the table every day for lunch. That is the easiest way to be labelled as a " bad mother", again, you are ruining your child's stomach.

Between 1 month old to 12 months old you are supposed to take your baby to the various specialist doctors, such as ophthalmologist, orthopaedist, psychiatrist etc., just to be on the safe side. Also need to take him for blood test at 3 month old.

Unfortunately, smacking and shouting are very common.

That's how I remember the child-rearing from 15 years ago. Hope, that it is now changing for the more positive attitude. Needless to say, I was very down and very worried the first several years of DS1 life. Could not believe how relaxed I am now.

Enjoying this thread!

I didn't let newborn ds fall asleep on the sofa or floor with a pile of cushions, cousins and brothers and miscellsneous males.

I think that sounds rather cosy, loving and sociable. However! I don't have kids, so I do realise there may be dangers inherent in it that I don't know about.

This thread is fascinating. I think Sweden and Norway sound the most enlightened.

Oriunda- and don't forget the dreaded cervicale!

Which I used to think was a terrible illness affecting a female's nether regions until I noticed that men are just as likely to get it.....

My oft-neglected blog may have got a whole new post that day

I was in India till my DS1 turned 2. I am a terrible mum according to Indian standards because:

1. I objected to my baby being given honey on the day he was born. It is a standard Hindu ritual, Jatakarma, where the favourite family member is given the privilege of feeding the new born honey, in the belief that the baby will imbibe some virtues from that relative.

1. I breast fed DS1. While most mums are expected to bf their babies during the initial months, I had a medical doctor (along with MIL, DM, aunties, neighbours etc.) telling me that breast milk is less nutritious than formula once the baby is around 6 months old . I bf till DS was 2.5 years.

1. I refused to put kohl in my baby's eyes. Apparently applying Kohl improves the baby's eyesight There are special baby kohls available is shops.

I'm Estonian, had a baby in France.

For Estonians, I'm a bad mother because:
-I went back to work when baby was 4 months old. That's all the mat leave you get here. As was mentioned earlier, you get 18 months full salary in Estonia, but your job is kept open for 3 years, so you are a bad mother if you can't save enough of the maternity benefits to at least stay home for 2 years.
-I freeze my baby. I don't put socks and hat on him in the middle of the summer, that's a massive no-no. Babies must have hats! All the time!
-I don't wash his butt under the tap during each nappy change, but use wipes.

In France, I'm weird because

• I still breastfeed (DS is almost 9 months). It's generally considered odd to bf after 3 months.
• I don't do cc. I have been told many, many times that I just need to let him cry for 3 nights and by 4th he will be sleeping through. Thanks, but it's not for me.
• we walk a lot and DS naps outdoors even in the middle of the winter. In Estonia, you are a bad mother if the baby does not get fresh air daily, no matter the weather. Here I'm bad mother dragging the poor baby out when it's raining or snowing, for no good reason.
• DS is wearing tights. They are practical both under trousers and just for crawling around at home, no frozen legs or disappearing socks. zing even in Eastern Europe, tights are for small boys only.

'I'm an infant teacher, and often get the boys from Eastern Euro and African countries rocking up with tights under their trousers in the dead of winter'

Same here - not a teacher but work with little children and lots of the boys from those cultures wear tights under their trousers in winter. I hadn't noticed that they stop around Year 1 as I work with nursery age and below - interesting! Cant' have him looking in any way like a girl I guess!

Some of these are interesting and some are horrifying, especially the under-18 month olds being forced to potty train

The phrase "the past is a foreign country" seems so true, as my kids are now young adults, and the current advice is really quite different to the advice I followed. Weaning from 12-16 weeks, use pureed food etc.

LadyinDisguise at milk-drinking. I've not heard this one, but then my parents have been quite progressive when we were growing up.

But girls are not to wash their hair during their periods. Of course no contact with anything cold after giving birth.

Cold things must be unnatural and are the invention of the devil.

Not mocking though. There were a lot of good things when I was growing up and a lot of things I'm doing with my own DC. I'll post some when I can remember them.

Moroccan babies are weaned on biscuits mushed with milk at three months. They are given whatever adults eat including very salty or sugary food. My DNS are the least fussy kind I know whereas my DS is a prissy nightmare with food so I'm not going to criticise that too strongly.
Moroccan kids take themselves to school. Reception age kids will walk to school holding hands. DN was getting the bus to pre school at 3 years and walking to and from the bus to his flat door alone.
The layers! Babies are bundled in far too many layers, especially when ill. I was genuinely afraid for my DN when he got a cold at a week old, I thought he was at risk of seizures due to being overheated.
Very early schooling. Pre school (private) is actual school, they are reading and writing by 4. This doesn't apply to kids in state schools of course.

Great thread. My expat days were pre children but SIL is Greek and the pregnancy guidance there differs tp UK. Can you imagine telling a Greek woman not to eat feta (sheep's milk cheese). You would be laughed at.

Sangria I am nodding along and laughing at your post. My dd1 was born extracted in a provincial northern Italian hospital and we survived living there a few years after that. Ex is the son of southern Italian terrone immigrants. Everything you say is true!

I was told my milk goes bad after six months - quite authoritatively by a nursery worker.

If you don't give your child a dummy you are a cruel mother.

If you are aged under 30 40 then you are a 'young mother'.

Every household must have an 'aerosol' (nebuliser) bywhich preventitive antibiotics and steroids must be administered before the onset of winter (which occurs on a proscribed date, upon which your infant must be bundled up like a Michelin baby).

If you use a sling it means you can't afford a PegPerego/Inglesina pushchair and are trying to be 'like those black women'.

Heaven forbid your child should actually chew something before the age of five. Choking is a massive hazard.

A trip to the pediatra/a&e requires several generations of the family to accompany the child and regular forced demonstrations of the minor cough to all in turn in the waiting room.

It is cruel to strap a child in a car seat, however one of the aforementioned bsby carrisges will do the job for at least five years -enabling late night restaurant visits (the child will eventually pass out in it after tearing around for several hours).

This thread is really funny. Reminds me of when my Syrian friend invited us for dinner and I said we would need to find a babysitter. He looked totally shocked and told me he had a perfectly good sofa for baby to fall asleep on and why was I putting my son to bed at 7pm anyway.

I had my ds here in the UK and dd in the Middle East.

Dd birth- before the birth, lots of raised eyebrows as I didn't want to know the sex. lots of fuss about dh being there during cs, and my desire to bf and have baby in the room and look after her myself. I also didn't have a maid, so that caused some fuss about how I would manage at home with a baby and a dh.

Bf was considered fine, and it was generally the expats who glared at me out and about. The locals didn't bat an eyelid and always smiled/ complimented the baby.

In France however, everything I did was wrong, from feeding a newborn when he cried ( he has to learn who is boss), to letting them feed themselves as soon as they could hold a spoon, and mil said a bib should be worn at all times to keep clean. Even at home. And bedtime- just put the child in its bed, say goodnight and flick out the lights, closing the door firmly behind you. Don't go back ever as they won't learn to fall asleep. You do this from birth, apparently. My sil did it and the screaming went on for hours and hours:(

Oh and all ff mothers here are bad mothers, because the official advice, also printed on formula tins, is never to use water hotter than 40C for making up bottles. None of this 70C stuff.

Oh yes and in morocco a 12 hour labour is unheard of if you give birth in a private hospital (and if you can afford it you do, public hospitals are...not great). SIL had a c sec because she had been labouring for almost 12 hours and they were all panicked it was going on too long. I know an English ex pat who almost gave birth in the car park because she had a dread of going in too early and being pressured into a c sec.
You don't get birth partners either. Fathers would be absolutely not allowed but you can't even take your mum in. Other SIL was 19, terrified, induced birth and had horrible intervention I think because she was unsupported and scared. The midwives shouted at her!

YY to Malaysian bedtimes being late! DH was that my relatives were making arrangements to meet us, including 4-yo DTDs, for meals after shopping centre closing times so after 10pm. It may have led to a few, um, domestic arguments between us

And also the spoon-feeding of mush until an advanced age. We had people staring and commenting (impressed, mostly) that DTDs were completely self-feeding. OTOH, there is no acceptance of food fussiness (good) nor any concept of allergies (bad). No special children's menus except in very upmarket, Westernised, restaurants.

• Local women in Hong Kong still have a confinement period of a month post-birth where they eat certain foods, can't wash their hair or bathe and have to stay inside.

• Babies under 6 weeks old don't go out. My colleague didn't take her baby out for 6 months. That is totally normal. When the baby finally went out, it screamed the place down because it was so overstimulated.

• Yes, yes, to levels of clothing. We get "cold weather warnings" here when the temp dives below 15 degrees centigrade. Chinese grannies will chastise you if you go out in August without a baby blanket on the push chair.

• If your kids aren't free reading in English and Chinese aged 5, they may as well apply to wipe tables McDonalds now because that's all they'll be good for. Most of DS's Chinese classmates at his "free play" focused English Kindy lead a double life and go to Mandarin kindy in the afternoon where they copy characters in flawless calligraphy.

• Seat belts are wholly optional. Most people don't have cars and you can just get in a cab with a baby/ toddler on your lap or in a sling.

• Also, not a parenting one, but my helper, who is Filipina, won't iron if her hands have recently been wet, as she thinks it makes you sick.

Oh yes, the hospital required me to weigh my newborn before and after each feed. Only when she began to regain weight was I allowed to leave. Not helped by her being kept in a nursery (in which the nurses had full on screaming matches over rota assignment) and no possibility of rooming in.

Your child requires a medical certificate (€20 cash to the pediatra) before being allowed to register for any kind of sporting activity - including baby swim classed.

Oh I forgot the aerosol thingy. I am the only person in town with neither an aerosol or a hairdryer.

lol- and yes, yes, yes to the uncle Tom Cobbley and all going to the doctors.

I was, at 37, rather chuffed though to hear the woman in the opposite bed's mother (who of course stayed all night in the hospital with her) whisper theatrically loudly "is she a ragazza madre?" (about me) My youthful good looks I expect....

My friend, aged 33, still takes her own mother with her to everything because "I'm so young the teacher/doctor/hairdresser/greengrocer won't take me seriously". Not while you keep letting them think you are some sort of care in the community case love, no they won't.

Another friend took her dd for the annual check up every year, on the child's actual birthday. Well, it was the 3yr check wasn't it? So had to be done on that day....

DBro is having a baby with his Hungarian gf. She's panicked because she had to wait to register with a gp before getting a midwife appointment. Apparently over there they get a check up when they discover the pregnancy to 'make sure they are capable of carrying a child' - I have assured my bro that this is rally unnecessary and pointless, but it must be really odd if you come from a country where pregnancy and birth is very medicalised, and probably paid for, to a country where there is a very non interventionist approach like the uk.

Mine were born in the UK but I lived in germany when they were little. Mainly I got fed up with having to see a paediatrician for everything.

I do remember going for dinner in France when DS was about 13 months and asking what they had as a child's menu, thinking they would find us some hideous chicken nugget or something. The waiter considered for a moment and then recommended the lemon sole .

Once deboned, it was indeed just the job.