I would be a bad mum... if I still lived in Germany! Or: differences in traditions and guidelines

[dodi1978]

I am German, but have lived in the UK for 10 years. In fact, I had somehow acquired a husband, a house and a baby at pretty much exactly 10 years after arrived on an Easyjet flight with one suitcase . Said baby is now almost eight months old.

But that's not relevant here...

What is relevant is the fact that I am a terrible mum! Yes I am! At least if I am judge myself against German guidelines on weaning.

In the UK, the three rules seem to be:

1. Start around six months of age.
   
2. Avoid salt and sugar.
   
3. Don't give honey and nuts (ok, and a couple of other things, but the list is small).
   

And then, there is of course BLW vs. purees etc.

In Germany, BLW seems to be something that nobody has ever heard of. Even friends who have had babies recently seem to be utterly puzzled when I mentioned that some parents don’t give their baby any purees at all.

I’m doing a mixture of purees and finger food, having the little one eat what we eat whenever possible. But according to German guidance, I seem to have got it wrong, because, apparently, babies should have
- A potato – vegetable – meat – puree at lunchtime
- A milk – cereal – broth in the evening
- And a cereal – fruit broth in the morning

Ahem, fail!!! My pancakes with blueberry compote in the morning (which we only have occasionally, by the way) just don’t pass muster.

There are all kinds of other rules and guidelines as well, e.g. that that you should add rapeseed oil (no olive oil before one year!) to certain foods and how much and, oh yes, no yogurt before 10 months (fail!) etc. etc.

Sometimes, dear MNers, I am glad I am living in the UK! I don’t do well with rigid rules. Even the Pampers website has completely different guidance on weaning, when you look at the UK and the German version.

But this made me think… if you are from another country, or have raised a child in another country, what differences have you noticed in the guidance given and in the practice around birth, food, sleep, toilet training etc. as compared to the UK?

I am just asking this out of interest! It’d be great to hear your stories!

[BoffinMum]

I went over to Germany last month and because the kids were going to be in ski school, I bought special stuff so they would appear to be sufficiently well dressed, even though it was incredibly warm for the time of year and I knew we would all be roasting. I did not want to be judged on whatever the German version of Mumsnet is.

[halfdrunktea]

This is a fascinating thread. I'm afraid I don't have any of my own to add but there is an interesting book on the subject called "How Eskimos Keep their Babies Warm".

[halfdrunktea]

WRT to Israeli children, I don't know about their first food but Bamba is a very popular snack and that's made from peanuts. I remember reading that peanut allergies are less common there.

[poorincashrichinlove]

horsetowater I instinctively chewed my DCs food and reluctantly sucked the snot from their nose. So many instinctive, traditional practices are lost as newfangled technology takes over.

Footie Interesting point. A complete abstinence policy re peanuts has never made sense to me. I purposefully ate peanuts in pregnancy and when BF to provide some exposure.

[tallskinnylatte]

Fantastic thread! I've often wondered why my eastern European friend has her children's ears pierced - I'm sure her girls looked like girls anyway (and does it really matter- my DD was also being told she was a bonny boy) but some things are so deep rooted I suppose. I've never dared ask as I do think it's hideous but don't want to let her know that!

[learnasyougo]

Indonesia (specifically Jakarta - village life will be different):

pierce their ears as babies, so you know it's a girl
eyeliner on babies for photos
slap on the eucalyptus oil to 'keep the baby warm'
carried everywhere in a sling (I heartily approve of this, though)
no sitting at the table for meals once walking. Toddlers are off playing and they return to the table for the next mouthful (administed by hand from mum's plate) whenever they feel like it.
I've seen 'babysitters' (actually teenagers employed as 'nannies') run around after kiddies in the playground, hovering near the child on the climbing frame, to pop in another chunk of banana, so as not to interrupt the child's playing
nursery being about 20 children and 20 nannies (I know of a nursery that tried to ban nannies accompanying the children, but parents objected - they needed both a nursery and 1:1 care).
leisure time is wandering around a shopping mall while your nanny schleps on behind you carrying your infant, the bags, bottles and all baby paraphernalia - if you have a meal in the food court or a restaurant, nanny waits outside.
Motorcycle safety is being held in mum's arms, who is riding side saddle at the back, or if a little older, sitting in front of dad at the front.
car seatbelts - optional
care seat - what's that then?
when a baby is born, about 50 friends and relatives pile into the room to congratulate the new mother, before she's even had a chance to pop in a maternity pad. Almost no time alone to bond with the baby (that's what all that extended family are here to do).
bath times are in a bucket (once they can support their heads). Soap 'em up and rinse 'em off, while they hang on the sides (very cute, actually)
in villages, children play freely with little supervision. Other children supervise your toddler/stop them straying into the road/poke stray dogs with sticks.

[VioletGoesVintage]

Fascinating thread.

(Asian culture) I did not:

-Circumcise my son
-Shave my newborns' heads
-Give my babies honey as their first taste of anything.

The first probably caused my in-laws real distress but, to their credit, they never said a word to me about it and it has not soured our relationship.

The second I had to argue with my DH about. The words "over my dead body" and "cold day in hell" were mentioned.

The third, DH and I were united against.

On the other hand, I have enthusiastically converted various other people to the practice of putting tights on their baby boys. And, actually my Y1 DS still wears them at home. It's great that there's lots more choice of boys' tights over here now, although I have had some very cool pairs from Germany.

[Amrapaali]

No sleep routines in India either. "Play till you crash" seemed to be the motto.

On the other hand, getting them to sleep wasn't actually a problem-tiny babies were given THE most amazing massages ever. Some old toothless grandma would lay down an equally toothless baby on both her legs and give the little one a wonderful rub-down with warmed coconut oil and herbs. Followed by a warm shower. The baby would be so blissed out and start sleeping during the massage.

For a while I was walking around quite envious of babies who had spa treatment on tap.

[learnasyougo]

The peanut abstinence has been debunked. I mentioned to my midwife that Indonesians eat so much peanut, that if this caused deadly nut allergies, 90% of Indonesian babies would die at weaning.

She said her dissertation was on this very subject and she cited countries with high peanut consumption (such as Indonesia) as evidence that peanuts during pregnany, breastfeedig or early infancy are NOT the cause of nut allergies.

In a way, that's a shame, because it means we still just don't know what causes it or how to prevent it.

[Enjoyingmycoffee]

Such an interesting thread!

My DH is South African. I got the distinct impression that slings and carriers are not the done thing, by the white population that is. My MIL seemed genuinely mortified to be walking beside me when I had DS at 8 months in a carrier.

No concept of healthy baby snacks. Everything is sugar loaded.

[Forago]

my Y1 ds also wears tights - all my 3 boys have worn tights all the time when babies and toddlers and then when skiing, snow days etc. Bonkers not to. I was bought up in Europe where this is normal, though am English, thank god for H&M!

[chattychattyboomba]

This might just be a generational one but my (Australian) aunt scoffed at me for buying the buggy I bought. She called it a 'biscuit' and said the babies will be so cold in London because they hang out of them instead of more enclosed like what her children had (silver cross style?)
She also told me I should swaddle (advice in the UK was at the time NOT to swaddle to prevent SIDS)
Also advice in UK given by MW was 'cold baby cries, hot babies die' for this reason DH refused to let her wear more than a legless onsie for naps in April.
He was brought up in Papua New Guinea though by 7th day Adventist parents. He was fed by a wet nurse (who also breast fed her pig...yes) Luckily I have girls or would be criticised for not circumsizing.
Danish friend criticised my parenting for giving DD a bath before bed (her children aged 4 and 7 have only 1 or 2 baths a week- apparently bad for skin)
Greek friend got angry that I lay my DD flat to sleep- said head should always be ABOVE the feet or else... Some doom and gloom. UK says no pillows for babies. Or in fact anything in the bed to prevent risk of SIDS.

[NK2b1f2]

Agree regarding the layers in Germany. My niece was practically exploding at her christening in 29 degrees and high humidity. When I held her I realised she had a baby grow plus tights plus top under her heavy thick christening gown. It led to a row with my dsis. Even at the lunch the poor child still had her tights and top and cardigan on.

Come to think of it even my otherwise quite sane mother will wrap my dc in blankets, put socks on them and bring them hot water bottles . She must think we keep them practically naked most of the year.

I've done half my living and all my breeding in the UK and have taken a pick and mix approach to parenting . BF and FF, purée and finger food, pushchairs and slings...

[BoffinMum]

Amrapaali, I actually did a course in that type of massage and my offspring absolutely loved it.

[behindthetimes]

My husband is from North Africa (I can feel a name change coming on)...I am English. He's from a rural area, so differences even more pronounced.
I could write a book on cultural differences
I seem to cause shock and horror with my inlaws by taking my baby outside if it is hot, cold, windy or basically any weather condition you can think of. They would be shocked that I would not wrap my baby in a double fleece blanket when it is soooo hot that if we were in UK we would have baby lying in the shade in just a nappy!
They are highly amused that my DS goes to bed at 7 (DH loves having evening time as adult time though), and think I am a bit stupid for not knowing that you rock and sing a baby to sleep (rather than teach them to lie down and go to sleep).
Discipline apparently does not apply to children under the age of about 12, and if I tell DS off, even for something really naughty, they tell me off!
Had to stop myself from flying at my MIL for feeding DS large spoons of honey (home brewed) when he was about 4 months old. At the same age DS got really ill and I got VERY told off by a pharmacist for not giving him water as well as breast milk at a very hot time of year. My DS now drinks untreated well water and seems to thrive on it!
I asked my neice what the word in their language for nappy was, she didn't know, she'd never seen one before
There must be so many more examples that I've forgotten.
On the plus side my in-laws are lovely and deal with most of our differences with humour.
I've also benefited from DHs alternative views on many issues, and 'gone over to the other side' on some things, for example, co-sleeping (although I don't do very well in the same bed, DS is 3 now and still sleeps next to us, I wouldn't change it). DH grew up on a diet of home grown and home reared food, and completely rejects any sort of processed food, which is challenging at times but does mean that DS has had a pretty good diet.
They do baby wearing not as a new fangled thing but as the only sensible way to get the necessary daily chores done, so baby is strapped on the bag, covered (of course) with a fleece blanket (including it's face, I always worry they'll suffocate), and life carries on. This is actually great I think, the child gets used to being part of day to day life without having to be the centre of attention.
What I find challenging is that people (including complete strangers) will come up to you and tell you what to do with your child, for example, put your child in the shade, or they need a hat etc etc, in a way that we'd think of as sooo rude in the UK, but I try and see it as a positive way, as a sign of a country that still rears it's children as a society.
Really enjoyed reading these!

[Francagoestohollywood]

I am Italian, our dc were born and spent their first years in the UK.

In the UK I was a bad mother because:

• They went to bed at 8, which was considered late there (but shockingly early in Italy)
  
• I do raise my voice at times.
  
• I sent my dc to nursery p/t even if I was a sahp or worked from home at times.
  

When we came back to Italy, I was a bad mother because:

• I didn't fret if they were "sudati" (sweaty) after playing in the park.
  
• I didn't routinely clean their noses before going to bad with those little pumps Italians are so fond of.
  
• we rarely carry an umbrella or panic when it rains

[thesaurusgirl]

I spent some of my gap year as a teaching assistant in North India and can verify that you never see an Indian baby by itself - it's always in someone's arms, though they don't seem to mind very much whose arms. No baby is ever left to cry, someone always races to comfort it immediately.

A nappy is literally a napkin - a square of cotton cloth. As soon as it's soiled, the baby is washed down. If it shits on you, it's considered your fault for not moving quickly enough.

You also see very small children (5 and 6 year olds) taking care of their toddler siblings. Initially thought this was to do with poverty but you see it in the richest households. Really touched me, actually.

It's not all love and attention though - Indians smack liberally, pull hair, and twist ears to punish even the smallest transgressions . And not just their own kids, but anyone else's who happens to be misbehaving .

[Amrapaali]

It's the best, isnt it, BoffinMum?

[Kveta]

DH is Czech, and his friends/family excuse all of my parenting 'eccentricities' because I'm British - for example, returning to work when DS was 7 months old (lots of sharp intakes of breath on that topic), then 3 years later, NOT returning to work when DD was a baby, because somehow their culture has shifted massively in 3 years

also:
bfing past a year AND in public sometimes
not feeding DC herbal teas to get them to sleep
not piercing DD's ears
co-sleeping
baby led weaning
sending them to school before they are 6
not potty training as soon as they were able to stand

and the one that annoys me the most, which I have seen in a few czech friends, is the concept that boys are spoiled by being held, so male babies are left to lie down a lot, whereas girls can be cuddled as much as you want. Cue many Czech males with flat heads (seriously, I used to think it was a genetic thing over there, but have since heard from a few mums that it's because boys shouldn't be held much )

other than that, there are not too many differences!

[Kveta]

Oh, and I have been berated in the street in Czech many times because my DC don't wear hats in sunny weather (or in any weather given the chance).

I know the Czech for 'what a neglectful mother, where is your baby's hat, she/he will die of pneumonia!' even when rattled off at me at a hundred miles an hour by an elderly lady :o

funny how DH isn't neglectful though, even if he is the one carrying said child...

[MysteriousCitiesOfGold]

I'm finding this thread so refreshing!!

Everyone in Ireland is obsessed with teething. All crying can be explained by teething. Even if a baby is hot, tired, hungry, and overstimulated, it must be 'them tooths'. Even random people in the street stop me and comment that my baby must be teething because of her red cheeks. She's not - she just gets really red cheeks when she's a bit too warm. I've learnt to smile politely.

I'm from a French background and no-one ever seems to talk about teething.

Ditto wind. MIL and PIL always seemed very concerned that I wasn't winding dd thoroughly enough. I preferred to just let her sleep when she fell asleep at the breast!

[Iwillorderthefood]

I am British, my husband is Sri Lankan tamil. He came here in 1991, and his parents in 1990 (dad) and 1995 (mum) along with their two daughters.

I was strange because:

I did not stay in the house for 31 days after birth
I did not have my baby's head shaved on the 31st day
I got dressed quite quickly post birth
I let my children pick up leaves from the ground (they are dirty you know)

I will not allow my daughters to have a puberty ceremony in front of all their family.

I let them out of the house to play in the winter. It's too cold and they will catch cold

I encourage my children to be active.

My children are too skinny (instead of obese which is healthier apparently)

I insist on car seats every trip

I have not pierced their ears.

I let them out of the house in the rain! They will be ill apparently

I walk them to school - driving is by far the best way apparently.

My children clean their teeth in the morning and the evening (it is not necessary to clean teeth in the evening - although the state of my nieces andnp nephews teeth say otherwise)

I let my children drink tap water !

Oh and I sometimes allow my hair which is pretty grey grow quite a long way through, which is wrong as apparently a wife must have the same colour hair as her husband.