I would be a bad mum... if I still lived in Germany! Or: differences in traditions and guidelines

[dodi1978]

I am German, but have lived in the UK for 10 years. In fact, I had somehow acquired a husband, a house and a baby at pretty much exactly 10 years after arrived on an Easyjet flight with one suitcase . Said baby is now almost eight months old.

But that's not relevant here...

What is relevant is the fact that I am a terrible mum! Yes I am! At least if I am judge myself against German guidelines on weaning.

In the UK, the three rules seem to be:

1. Start around six months of age.
2. Avoid salt and sugar.
3. Don't give honey and nuts (ok, and a couple of other things, but the list is small).

And then, there is of course BLW vs. purees etc.

In Germany, BLW seems to be something that nobody has ever heard of. Even friends who have had babies recently seem to be utterly puzzled when I mentioned that some parents don’t give their baby any purees at all.

I’m doing a mixture of purees and finger food, having the little one eat what we eat whenever possible. But according to German guidance, I seem to have got it wrong, because, apparently, babies should have

• A potato – vegetable – meat – puree at lunchtime
• A milk – cereal – broth in the evening
• And a cereal – fruit broth in the morning

Ahem, fail!!! My pancakes with blueberry compote in the morning (which we only have occasionally, by the way) just don’t pass muster.

There are all kinds of other rules and guidelines as well, e.g. that that you should add rapeseed oil (no olive oil before one year!) to certain foods and how much and, oh yes, no yogurt before 10 months (fail!) etc. etc.

Sometimes, dear MNers, I am glad I am living in the UK! I don’t do well with rigid rules. Even the Pampers website has completely different guidance on weaning, when you look at the UK and the German version.

But this made me think… if you are from another country, or have raised a child in another country, what differences have you noticed in the guidance given and in the practice around birth, food, sleep, toilet training etc. as compared to the UK?

I am just asking this out of interest! It’d be great to hear your stories!

People are not very clued up on suncream where I live. People have also asked me if my daughter is cold in the height of summer. Very strange. I think just the commenting and saying you should do this that or the other goes on a lot more here. It would be considered very rude in the UK.

I am Finnish and living in the UK but we spent one year in Finland when DD2 was born.

When in hospital following my c-section after a day or so the midwife asked if I had weed yet, and when I said no, she produced what she called a "wee cocktail" consisting of a couple of pills and a large shot of cognac! And it worked!

You have to have a padded snowsuit and hugely expensive proper winter shoes for your DCs in winter, a "mid season" all-in-one suit for another 100 euros or so for the Autumn months, and then of course a "mud suit" plus shoes and accessories for wet weather, all at a massive cost.

Children MUST play outside at all weathers. In the winter when going to the local play centre we would zoom straight to the indoor play area while all the other children played outside and the parents stood chatting in the freezing cold!

One sunny day in June we went to the beach with DD1 aged 2.5 and 1yo DD2 and in the morning there was a national warning in all the media about the dangerous UV rays that day and that all children should wear sunglasses! When we got to the beach my girls were wearing normal swimsuits - all the other children had something like wetsuits on, goggle style sunglasses and hats!

When we had other families over for lunch or dinner it was seen as weird to serve wine with the food.

Although I was quite agog at seeing boys at my DD's school here in the UK the other day in knee-length trousers on a freezing, wet day with the temp about +7 at most!

NCT newsletter article is a great idea! I am always stuck for articles. Although I don't live in a particularly multicultural or cosmopolitan town (at least compared to London where I used to live) I have nevertheless met parents from at least 15 different countries and it would be really interesting to ask them about whether things are very different in their countries of birth.

We are bad parents, because unlike many other parents in the Philippines, we:

• Didn't use a belly binder or band (called a bigkis) on our newborn. It's supposed to prevent colic (called kabag) and help children grow up to have a slim waist and the 'perfect' innie as opposed to an outie bellybutton. Some people place a coin on the navel before the bigkis is wrapped around the tummy as this 'will hold the abdominal contents in'

• Didn't rub chamomile oil (aceite de manzanilla) on DS's tummy to prevent or cure colic. My dad keeps giving me small bottles of it to take back to the UK

• Didn't trim DS's eyelashes to make them grow thicker and longer

• Didn't pinch his nose lightly on a regular basis to make the nosebridge higher/thinner

• Didn't make him wear a tiny red bracelet to prevent usog (a kind of hex where a baby can get ill when a stranger greets him or her, eg "Oh is this your daughter, hello, you are lovely!")

• Didn't put a small handtowel or cloth on his back underneath his clothing while out and about -- supposed to absorb sweat from playing and prevent catching a cold

• Didn't just bathe DS in the mornings -- babies will get ill from exposure to hamog (the cold afternoon or evening air; read: 28C)

• Didn't prevent him from playing out in the sun -- don't you know his skin will turn dark like a field labourer's?

• Encouraged him learning to cycle and swim -- shouldn't he really be studying??

Plus other things bringing up a child in the Philippines:

• Fat kids are healthier

• Bottle feeding until 4 or 5 years old is ok

• No travelling with a car seat; babies are fine held in arms in the front or back of the car. We were crazy, overcautious parents for bringing a car seat with us

• For middle classes and up, nanny goes everywhere with child: in the car, grocery, school bus, sitting at the restaurant table or a little way off while parents have a meal with friends, and even inside the classroom. True story: a friend said her son was so proud he didn't need nanny in the classroom with him anymore. I think he was 8

Hi Cheerful Yank, yep my DD can't walk to school either it's a good 10 miles away, she would need to take a bus and train and in the winter that would be in the dark as school starts at 7:45.

I appreciate that there are many differences between different regions of the US and even between neighborhoods in the same city. However, statistically the US has more violent crime (rape, murder, assault and armed robbery) than other western nations and many developing nations. My DH grew up in a Californian suburb and I would say his paranoia comes from three factors: a) Paranoid parents b) His job in which he is dealing with the aftermath of violence and c) Violence affecting his immediate family - his dad had a gun pulled on him in broad daylight, a family friend was shot to death by her boyfriend.

I know statistically it is highly unlikely that any of us will encounter violence such as this in our lives but seeing what it does to the victims every day in his work does tend to make him more aware of the dangers.

When we lived in the US we lived in a neighborhood where kids could walk to elementary and middle school. I drove our kids to school as their school was out of the neighborhood and across a freeway and at the time they were in 2nd and Kindy.

DH reminds people that a gun in the house is always more likely to be used in a suicide by one of the occupants than as protection in a robbery or used in a murder.

Germans also have more access to guns than most European nations and our babysitter's boyfriend used one to commit suicide last year. He was 19.

My ILs are American and DS1 spent the first two years of his life in the USA. I got in with a crowd of La Leche League mums who were fab - we were all into baby-wearing and BFing, BLW and making our own purees, but to my MIL this was all very strange and inexplicable. To her, BF-ing was something people did in ye olden days before formula was invented. In fact, she and oh-so-modest FIL were mortified when I merrily whipped my boob out at Thanksgiving and fed 4-week-old DS. I did go in another room, but they were red-faced with embarrassment. Me? Not bothered

As for weaning, I started with fruit and vegetable purees, then moved onto bits of banana, avocado, mashed sweet potato, etc, which MIL tolerated briefly before she started asking me when I was going to give him some 'hot dawg' and regaled me with tales of how her two DC were given hot dawg while still in their high chairs. I wasn't really sure where to start with refuting that one! She was also keen to shove sugary biscuits full of additives into his tiny hands at every opportunity and FIL thought nothing of firing up his pipe while his grandson was in the same room. Since moving back to the UK I have to say that I really appreciate the 3,000 miles of Atlantic ocean that separates us!

CheerfulYank

That is absolutely fascinating- thank you SO much for posting. My interest in your neck of the woods was triggered by a book I read about two women who travelled around the US in search of Pie! It turned out to be quite an epic journey where they met immigrant groups all over, some of whom were the Belgians in the Kewaunee counties and the others were the Scandinavians around Door County.

A friend of mine is Finnish and uses that term 'Sisu' to describe some of her patients. It is lovely.

Boffin that is quite a sweeping statement. Have you met every single person in the US?
Honey the US has a higher murder rate than the UK, but its rates of other crimes such as rape and drug offenses are lower.
CheerfulYank I grew up in Washington DC and I can assure you that Wibbley is not exaggerating .

The English obsession with perfectly shined school shoes is a puzzle to me.

Juneau You can refute your MIL by telling her that hot dog skins are a choking hazard for babies and toddlers!

In France, I am considered crazy for :
-Refusing an epidural.
-Breastfeeding until about 3 and never buying a jar of baby food.
-Co-sleeping.
And I am not even going to mention homeschooling.

In DH's home country (the Berber part of Algeria), I was told off for sitting my baby in front of a table fan (it would give her pneumonia) and not using a hairdryer on DD1's hair (it would give her pneumonia too). It was 35°C!

trying again for peanut link

Sorry!

I need to catch up on this thread, but has the "Finnish baby box" been discussed - is it true, in Finland when you have your first baby you get issued a box containing basic clothes, bed clothes, (duvet, pillow?) and the baby can sleep in the box? Then 2nd child you can opt out and get cash? I have images of lots of Finnish babies, dressed in government issued onesies sleeping in cardboard boxes.

I have to say the fear of the harm caused by wet hair seems to cross national borders...except for in the UK.

Oh I didn't think Wibbly was exaggerating in the slightest! I have an uncle who lives in Manhattan and he and his wife (who grew up there) are very much like that. The anxiety over preschool for their DD had me giggling like a loon, though I sympathized. That's just the way it is there.

My uncle and my dad are close in age but my dad became a father at 18 whereas my uncle didn't until his 40's, so his daughter and my son are only a year apart or so. It's been a really interesting look at the different cultural things!

My uncle and his wife, as I said, were both early 40's when their DD was born (my aunt may have been 39). I was 24 when I was pregnant with DS and that was frightfully young to them, but normal for where I grew up. They had a lot of choice and agonized over schools, whereas we just sent DS to the only one in the town...it was either that or homeschool.

I'm quite strict on please, thank you, excuse me, etc with DS. They "don't want to put pressure" on DD. Also she is shy and doesn't speak when people talk to her sometimes, whereas I would consider that rude and wouldn't allow DS to do it. (She doesn't have SN, selective mutism or anything like that.)

They are fairly neurotic people overall (though lovely!) and it seems like most of their circle is too. I'm pretty solidly Midwestern in that you just shake it off and get on with it.

Honey that makes total sense :) I know we are far more violent as a culture overall. I just meant in my particular area, I don't give guns another thought. I certainly wouldn't allow the DC to be at a house with unsecured guns but other than that, guns just are. Just a tool for getting food.

Speaking of my uncle (and guns) it made me bite back a laugh when one of his friends was stealth boasting about his daughter loving pheasant. Where I come from that's redneck food...it only costs a bullet! :o

Thank you kudzu, if you have any questions ever feel free to ask.

travis allegedly petit filous (and even worse any type of Quark) makes the poor little ones' kidneys combust due to too much protein. Even 50 years later it still can be linked back to the petit filous, say the tin-foil hatted time travellers.

monopoly123

Yes, the Finnish baby box is true. It is amazing, a lot of clothes, accessories, toys, bibs, reusable nappies, and the box can be used as a first bed for the baby!

Link (in Finnish, with pictures)

Sadly we didn't get one as we only moved there just before the birth! But they sent one to Prince George when he was born I'm told!

We had a lovely life in the US and a great neighborhood, when we moved in various neighbors came over with pies and cookies. When DD2 was spending a lot of time in hospital and I was with her, our neighbors came over and planted up all our empty planters on our front porch with spring flowers. I am very grateful to the US because I was completely ignorant about babies and BFing and was extremely surprised to find my cynical London self nursing longterm but it was smooth sailing because of all the great support and advice I got from various sources in the US. We also coslept but that happened sort of by accident too. I called the free Nurse's helpline at the local Children's hospital asking about something completely unrelated when the nurse I was talking to asked if six month DD1 was in her own room. I said no, and the Nurse insisted we should get her in her own room ASAP. After that phone call I got very worried as I didn't have any close friends with kids at that point, so I tried frantically to call my Pharmacist friend in England and mother of eight to get her advice but I couldn't get hold of her.

Finally I told DH that we needed to move DD1 into her own room. He said why? I told him about the phonecall and he just said "but I don't want her down the corridor I like her in the bed with us". I was so relieved! I said "Really? Alright great let's just keep doing whatever it is we're doing". At that stage I had not read about attachment parenting or whatever, we just were doing what came naturally. But according to some Indian friends it could also be called Indian parenting!

I love the Finnish baby box!

DH from Sudan. We visited years ago when DDs were small.

There were No seat belts in cars
His sisters insisted on putting oil on their hair after I had washed it
No set bedtimes ever
All girls had ears pierced when very young, mine still haven't.

I conceived dd1 in Oman but was very pleased to give birth here as in Oman the doctors were totally unsympathetic to my horrendous morning sickness and I was basically told to get on with my job, no time off.

And women give birth over there with only a midwife present, no DH, mother or sister.

I like the pack of condoms in the Finnish baby box

Eyebrows were raised by my Iranian in- laws because:

I weaned my baby too early (6 months).

He has a set bed time routine and goes to bed before us. DS's cousins (aged four and under) are all still awake when they Skype us at gone midnight their time!

I used cloth nappies occasionally. They never knew they existed.

I discipline him by telling him off when he touches things he shouldn't for example. He's too young at 16 months to understand apparently.

I work four days a week. How do you do it they ask me, you must be exhausted. Yes but I have no choice. We wouldn't survive if I didn't.

Another German here, have been in the UK for 18 years and had both DC here so I don't know a lot about german child rearing but here are a few things I have observed.
My german SIL is pregnant at the moment and as soon as she informed work she did not have to work nights and weekends anymore, its the law apparently. Lucky thing.
German prams and pushchairs are huge and must have proper suspension and the baby must be covered by an enormous feather duvet at all times.
You must wear slippers indoors. My grandmother still follows me round with a pair of slippers when I'm at home and will not rest until I give up and put them on. My mother was visiting when DD2 was a few weeks old and the health visitor was coming round. My mother told me I should put socks and slippers on DD1 or I might get in trouble with social services.Bare feet =neglect apparently. We have carpet everywhere and a very warm flat. I laughed, thinking she was joking. She was serious!
BLW is unheard off. The first time we visited with DD and went out to eat(not anywhere terribly posh) I gave her some pasta shapes on her high chair tray. She was actually not a very messy eater and was not throwing it around or anything. Regardless, the people at the next table were clearly stunned by such slovenly behaviour.
I have a german friend whose 14 month old has never been allowed to feed himself with a spoon. Because she makes a mess. Not sure how she is supposed to learn how to use a spoon!
All babies must have various check ups with a paediatrician, 6 in the first year.They don't have health visitors.

I am German as well, and even after having lived in the UK for more than a decade, I can never get over the flimsy way parents dress their wee ones. Someone needs to tell them they're not in Spain :-) In this country, you will never ever need anything short-sleeved, let alone shorts! Those designers of school uniforms must be brought to justice ;-)