What do you think about spouses/partners staying overnight on postnatal wards?

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

The organisation Birthrights (with whom we've done some stuff in the past) are planning a new campaign called First Night, and wanted to know whether it's something MN could support - so we said we'd ask you lot!

Here's Birthrights' description of the campaign:

'Birthrights is a human rights in childbirth charity, and we will be launching a campaign later this year to ensure women aren't left alone on often over-staffed postnatal wards, but instead can choose to have their partner remain with them overnight. We will be researching what's important to women, partners and staff, the barriers and benefits, and working with units who've implemented this policy to draw up best practice guidelines to use as they lobby for change.'

So please let us know what you think. Is this something you'd like us to swing behind?

Thanks
MNHQ

Ridiculous idea.

If this organisation is going to campaign for something, surely it should be better postnatal care rather than just to let lucky women who have a useful, willing and able partner care for them?

BillN, I wasn't being observed at all, DD was. In fact I didn't even get the normal post natal checks that midwives do, despite having stayed 5 nights. I needed the sleep then because babies cried most of the night in hospital and other patients and partners talked loudly all day. It was ok for other people as they were only their for one night and could cope with one nights sleep deprivation, but try coping with five nights after a long labour.

I would support this wholeheartedly. I had a hellish couple of nights on the postnatal ward. A c section is major abdominal surgery yet I was expected to be able to care for my first baby fully on my own, with no sleep and no support. And unqualified, unsupportive night staff. I failed to bf and blame it on the awful advice and awful lack of support I received on the ward. DH being there would have made a huge, huge difference.

But increased funding for postnatal wards would be better tbh - I know I'm not alone in my horrible experience, I've read so many tales on here. I haven't read this thread , just adding my post.

Perhaps you should read at least a couple of pages of it TBIR to gain some understanding of why the overwhelming majority of women feel very strongly against this proposal.
Obviously everyone is entitled to their own opinion and feelings, but do try to understand why so many are saying No.

Absolutely right mathanxiety. For all births after number one DH had to be at home to look after the DC. There was no option. This whole idea is a bit silly on that practical basis alone. Able and willing family members living nearby aren't available to many, perhaps most. Lovely idea this touchy feely dads-should-be-there kind of approach - but for most gritty necessity kicks in.

I would have loved to have my partner stay. Was induced on the Friday, and my twins were eventually born by c section the night from Saturday to Sunday. Both had jaundice and were under special lights. I had one cot on each side of the bed as there was no space. I struggled to walk following the surgery, and could only pick my babies of to feed them, they had to stay under the light as much as possible. After only having a few catnaps during my stay in the hospital, I was also incredibly tired. I cried when my partner had to leave. I could not physically be on two sides of the bed at once, walking was slow and painful. If my partner would have been allowed to stay it would have made all the difference.

Off topic, one of the midwives really upset me by saying, 'so you don't want to hold your baby' when I asked her to help me put her back in the crib, I was so tired I was scared i would drop her. I'll never forget that.

Yes yes yes, I was lost without my partner. I'd never held a baby before never mind changed a nappy. I think being left by myself for that first night made me fail at breastfeeding, something I really wanted to do, just because I was holding a crying baby all night and no matter how often I rang my bell to get help, no one came. I was exhausted and just wanted to get home so gave up. If I'd had the support of me partner I'd have carried on.
Also if I was like the lady opposite me I'd have shut my curtains around me and got my partner to sit with his feet up on my bed and then get away with him staying all night anyways! !

How many of these partners some posters would love to have had at their sides have ever:
-- held a baby?
-- changed a nappy while baby has still got a cord stump attached?
-- taught breastfeeding, identified posture, latch, tongue tie or grip problems, or problems with inverted nipples, etc?
-- learned how to correctly help someone recovering from abdominal surgery sit up from a lying position, or turn over to one side while lying on a bed?

Having experienced excellent post natal care for some of my deliveries, I can assure you that you do not feel shaky, abandoned or alone in well-run hospitals because staff understand their job is to help you and support you.

It's odd how the vast majority of the instinctive "yes please" responses (including my own) have been because we received inadequate care from HCP after our births and were left to struggle on our own, often while in a medical condition which made it very unsafe for ourselves and/or our newborn babies. No-one would ever expect a patient who had undergone any other kind of major abdominal surgery to be able to safely assume sole responsibility for a newborn infant!

But what's interesting to me is how our first reaction is that the solution to the help we lacked lies with partners being allowed to stay, rather than that maternity care should be improved. Is that because we don't think we're "worth it" somehow, they as women we should suffer quietly or be cared for by family instead of deserving to receive fully adequate care from professionals? Or just that we're so accepting that the NHS is fucked will never be able to provide adequate care?

BTW, those who know about these things, why are there no longer nurseries in hospitals? Of course I can see the benefits of the baby staying with the mother if she feels fully capable to looking after the baby. But there must be so many cases (there are certainly plenty listed in this thread) where it genuinely is in the best interests of mother and baby for the baby to be taken to a nursery for a few hours so the mother can recover. It's still the norm in many countries which have fantastic maternal care.

My dh stayed over both times- the hospital in Aust only had private rooms and queen size beds - private shower/loo too. Could not imagine being on a open ward with other men. It made such a difference to me - we had 5 days together both times. The hospital has changed policy now and if all goes well with the delivery nights 2-5 are spent in a nearby 5 star hotel with a midwife available around the clock.

I had the experience of all but one baby taken to the nursery for a few hours after birth. I wanted otherwise, but that was hospital policy.

For the most part I experienced fantastic post-natal nursing care, both as an insured patient and as a public patient. By that I mean responsive, kind, capable, professional nurses and nurses' aides and food service staff. They could have been just responsive, capable and professional, but many managed to throw in 'kind', and that makes a huge difference.

There were nurses' aides to respond to a buzz from the bedside button, and for the most part they could help with every request- lifting babies, helping me out of bed to get to the loo, going and figuring out where a missing meal had got to, changing bedding, stocking the bedside locker with hospital gowns, pads, chemical ice packs, perineal irrigation bottles, nappies and hospital-issued shirts for the baby, as well as making sure mums had formula if they wanted it. There were food service aides going around refilling pitchers of water on a constant route and offering a snack between meals -- you never had to call for water. Nurses took care of medical aspects of recovery and breastfeeding, and were summoned by the nursing aides when you buzzed for something that was outside of their remit. Nothing is perfect of course, but putting patient needs first and designing the care around that usually works well.

After an emergency C-section due to placental abruption I was very ill after dc1. Dosed to the eyeballs on morphine with dd in scbu, I wouldn't have known if dh was there or not. He couldn't have done much for me, and he couldn't do anything for dd.

After a planned section with dc2, I was in a much better condition but dh is freaked out by hospitals and was much better placed looking after then 2 yr old dd at home.

Both hospital stays were 5 days. I hated visitors (mine and others), and just wanted the nurses and midwives to get on with their jobs unhindered by relatives putting flowers into vases etc so I could get better and home as fast as possible.

There wasn't as option of a side room, but I didn't want one as the ward was so busy I didn't want to be 'forgotten about'. As pp have mentioned, I has to sleep with curtains open as I had to be observed. I was allowed to co-sleep with both babies (eventually with dd) on the ward as I had a 'good position'. This involved boobs out which I really wouldn't have been able to do if men were on the ward. Neither would I have wanted to have my catheter emptied, or sat on a bedpan or commode, or had the contents of my sanitary pad discussed within earshot of someone's husband.

I'm very sure most men would quickly change their minds about staying the night on a Mat ward once they realise what it's really like, and how little actual sleeping goes on.

goats Just remembered this. There was a 'prison mum' in one of the side rooms while I was in with dc1. Obviously I didn't know anything about her situation, but no, I might not have been happy about her partner staying the night.

They are just going to buy lots and lots of curtains.

Simple.

It's a no from me, by the way.

Yes! But setup in wards will need to change I really could have been doing with my DP after birth tbh as I had serious complications and it seems unfair they miss out on the bonding we get from the minuet baby is born.

They can still bond Proudmummy without staying the night.

Those of you who say that dads are missing out on this first night of "bonding", do you think that parents of babies who spend time in NICU/SCBU in incubators bond any less with their children for not being able to hold them straight away? Or adoptive parents? Or do parents of premature babies bond more than parents of babies who are born after their due date because of that extra week of bonding time outside the womb? How about a mother who might be unconscious for the first 12 or 24 hours after labour because of serious complications?

What a ridiculous notion that men will have any less of a bond with their babies for being sent home.

Partners on postnatal wards is the wrong answer to the question of "how can new mothers and babies best be supported in the first few days ?" The answer is surely adequate staffing and professional support plus some easing of ridiculous visiting hours, not turning the ward into a crap hotel

4 of my 5 were in the newborn nursery for their first few hours. I honestly don't think any of us suffered at all from that and there was certainly no lack of 'bonding'.

My then husband was away with work for almost six weeks after one of mine was born. They are incredibly well bonded. Needing the father there to bond is a load of tosh. It's one night.

If that's the premise, then what about children who are adopted, who have fathers on active service? All of us born back in the day when the dad paced the corridor and then saw mum and baby after they'd been cleaned up, can't we be bonded with our fathers? Of course we can. I'm a grown up and he's a granda and could be a great-granda and I'm incredibly close to my dad. And very well bonded.

That argument holds no water.

The "we need better health care support" argument does. Back in the day when I had my first, as I said, there were enough nurses, midwives, auxiliaries, there were nurseries, strick visiting times - we could learn a lot from that. It wasn't perfect, but I certainly never felt unsupported or left alone as I did when I had my last.

I discharged myself early because the ward was full of shouting 18 year olds shouting and watching MTV really loudly. The idea that these guys could stay overnight fills me with horror really.

So it looks like Birthrights are planning to bullishly push ahead with their ill-advised campaign.

There needs to be a rival campaign, stating strongly that this would be an idiotic idea. Otherwise, this is exactly the kind of big idea Cameron et al absolutely adore, and scarily, I can see it going ahead.