What do you think about spouses/partners staying overnight on postnatal wards?

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

The organisation Birthrights (with whom we've done some stuff in the past) are planning a new campaign called First Night, and wanted to know whether it's something MN could support - so we said we'd ask you lot!

Here's Birthrights' description of the campaign:

'Birthrights is a human rights in childbirth charity, and we will be launching a campaign later this year to ensure women aren't left alone on often over-staffed postnatal wards, but instead can choose to have their partner remain with them overnight. We will be researching what's important to women, partners and staff, the barriers and benefits, and working with units who've implemented this policy to draw up best practice guidelines to use as they lobby for change.'

So please let us know what you think. Is this something you'd like us to swing behind?

Thanks
MNHQ

I would rather my dh wasn't there.
I would feel uncomfortable with other people's male partners all being there, but I would be happy for genuine need to trump that.
I would like to see more midwives and hca's around to support women both pre, during,and post birth.

I am also bothered that Doncaster NHS Trust or whatever it is called so fit to trial the scheme based on such flimsy "research".

saw fit, not so fit!

My first baby is due in 3 weeks and I am dreading the thought of my husband being kicked out at some point and me being alone, and that's if all goes well... having catheters, not being able to pick up baby etc is freaking me out even more, adding to that that aftercare seems to rubbish judging by what a lot of you have said. It will be interesting once I've had the baby, to see how /if my opinion changes. But until then I'm now dreading my stay even more than I already was!

We agree that at the moment the research is insufficient. A big part of the campaign has always been undertaking more in- depth research but we hold our hands up and admit that we were working on the presumption that this was essentially a good idea and that the research would demonstrate this

I'm curious about why you started from a point of this being a good idea. As a women's rights organisation had none of the excellent arguments against this policy occurred to you prior to reading this thread?

Also, even with your own limited research 20% of women felt negatively impacted by this policy. Why is this not enough for you to abandon this idea? And why were partners included in the survey? That is putting their views on equal par with the patients.

Don't panic hobby, most people only stay on the ward a few hours and it's not an issue. I guess it's only those of us who have been unlucky enough to need a longer stay who have a strong opinion about this one way or another.

Another follow-up response from Birthrights:

"A couple more things to clarify. There's no big boss pushing us around here, no team of staff or big research grant. Birthrights is run by a board of trustees (unpaid, all mothers) and you've got the chair of the board directly responding here. We don't have staff, just a couple of volunteers who do odd jobs but mainly it's a couple of women who run this without pay.

There's no funding from any organisation that is driving any kind of agenda forwards.

We are lucky to have lots of in kind support and some individual donations which along with donating ourselves keeps our projects afloat.

One of the benefits of being so small is that we are nimble and can genuinely do an about face on this if required. There isn't anything about a possible campaign on our website; nothing apart from a couple of sides of outline exists at all, and this thread is the first public mention of it.

What is there is information on last year's Dignity in Childbirth Forum and campaign. The research referenced was presented by an external person - it's not Birthrights' work. We called for submissions for projects that supported the idea of dignity in childbirth and this external project was one of many. Others included specialist services for deaf women, young mothers and sexually abused women.

I think it would be irresponsible to abandon a project overnight solely on the basis of response to this thread. We haven't come up with this idea on a whim and we need to think carefully before abandoning it. We are committed to researching, and think this is worth doing; if you are all right we can hopefully make the issues with this more broadly known. Who knows, we may end up needing to launch a campaign against partners staying overnight if that's what research work shows.

We're really not a big, sinister organisation trying to upset women, and we fully take on board that you think we've got this wrong. And thanks for the offers of help and other ideas - lots of food for thought here.'

I think where I work it works quite well.

99% of people can't have their partners stay with them no matter what they want and how much this upsets them.

A very few who have a genuine need are allowed. Obviously anyone who's had a stillbirth no question, twins who are needing a lot of care such as tube feeds, any mum who has been very unwell following birth, any mum who has genuine serious mental health issues such as panic attacks, anxiety, previous puerperal psychosis. We would find these women a single room even if that meant turfing someone else out a single room.

Good response, Birthrights.

"One of the most compelling sources when we were considering this idea were the results of the survey we did with Mumsnetters last year. In many of the responses women told us of feeling alone and uncared for postnatally."
I just don't get how these responses translated into 'let the fathers camp out on the wards then' and not 'these women need enough trained HCPs available to them and not the skeleton staff we're limping on with right now'. It truly makes no sense to me.

That's where I was coming from in my previous post, pondering that you're going for the cheap sticking plaster that the people in change would OK, rather than push for the real solution of adequate staffing levels that the people in charge will fight tooth and nail against because that costs money. But it is so wrong to go for the sticking plaster, because it potentially lets the powers that be off the hook. Birthright, if you genuinely want women not to feel alone and uncared for, you need to campaign for TRAINED STAFF to be there for them, to care for them; not untrained unknown quantities of variable quality!

Birthrights, when you said in your latest response "We haven't come up with this idea on a whim" - could you please expand on how this idea DID come up? Because I am really really struggling to imagine a credible scenario where this idea would not have been shot down in flames within the first ten minutes.

Well, yes indeed.

It just proves that you can prove anything with research, however biased. Especially if you are not asking the right questions, and drawing conclusions out of a magicians hat.

Please take BIWI up on her offer, she knows what she is doing!

How diverse is your board?, if you had women from a cross section of society I am sure this idea wouldn't have got off the ground.

Also who do you consult with? Have you had any input from groups who address sexual and domestic violence.

Finally how do you know the tria in Doncaster and Bassetlaw was a success? You do realise that people who would be most affected are the least likely to provide feed back.

I must say though, if I had family support during the day and DH could have caught up on sleep during the day, then it would have been lovely to have DH helping with the night shift. But tbh most people don't have that luxury.

I don't think it's fair to criticise Birthrights for putting this suggestion out there for consideration - as this thread has shown, and as I'm sure other websites and forums would show, there is a number of people who would prefer to have their partners with them.

Personally I would've loved it, but I would've been aware tht it would be unfair on others. I was taken back to a full postnatal ward at 5am, 5 hours after giving birth, on the verge of a blood transfusion, waiting to find out if I needed another anti-D because they'd thrown my placenta away before checking it, 19 years old and completely clueless as to what I was supposed to do with this tiny human - and I was literally just left to my own devices. I could really have done with having my partner there as support. The midwives weren't able to just come to sit with me and tell me it was going to be ok, which was all I needed.

The question shouldn't be "Why are they considering supporting this?", it should be "Should we support this, or should we be lobbying for more staff, or fewer people per ward". Cost effect decisions and all that.

Moomin its not just a bad idea. Its extremely dangerous.

It really is a terrible idea. A campaign for adequate staffing would be much more appropriate and widely supported.

Another consideration is educating medical professionals about the links between pregnancy and domestic violence and the importance of affording pregnant women some time with medical staff without the presence of the partner. The private room option does address the issue of privacy, but it does not address the issue of whether there is abuse in the relationship.

TheXxed I'm not saying I agree with it - I'm saying having my DP with me would've been so much better for me, but not for others. Some compromise needs to be made, though - my first night with my baby was a nightmare, and a home birth wasn't an option for me by any stretch of the imagination.

I do agree that a blanket allowance would cause so much trouble, and that perhaps their efforts are better focused on providing better postnatal care - but isn't it better that this is being discussed, to educate people as to why it's a dangerous idea? So often, people are blind to all but their own situation, and just seeing things from other peoples' POVs can make all the difference. They're getting people talking, which isn't a bad thing.

No from me.

I think it's a terrible idea.

The wards are noisy enough as it is.

awful idea. hospitals are over stretched already. Massive waste of money and would make others uncomfortable. Perhaps they would be better focussed on better staffing overnight so that women would not (like me) be forced to try and take self to loo when over done epidural had left me with no feeling in legs. Lack of staff meant I spent ten minutes lying on floor next to my bed until someone came along and helped me. I didn't need my partner I needed a nurse.

Birthright, in case you are interested, there's also a discussion in the MN feminist section - though many posters are on both.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2129327-New-campaign-to-allow-partners-to-stay-on-maternity-wards?msgid=48224615#48224615

The solution is obviously more staff but people could campaign all they like - it isn't going to happen.

The NHS have had to make significant cuts and this is reflected in staffing levels.

I work in MH and my profession has been decimated by budget cuts and it's happening in all areas of health care.

What the government want now is much, much more for less and the plan is for smaller budgets and therefore more cuts year on year. The money simply isn't there.

It's going to get much worse, not better.