What do you think about spouses/partners staying overnight on postnatal wards?

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

The organisation Birthrights (with whom we've done some stuff in the past) are planning a new campaign called First Night, and wanted to know whether it's something MN could support - so we said we'd ask you lot!

Here's Birthrights' description of the campaign:

'Birthrights is a human rights in childbirth charity, and we will be launching a campaign later this year to ensure women aren't left alone on often over-staffed postnatal wards, but instead can choose to have their partner remain with them overnight. We will be researching what's important to women, partners and staff, the barriers and benefits, and working with units who've implemented this policy to draw up best practice guidelines to use as they lobby for change.'

So please let us know what you think. Is this something you'd like us to swing behind?

Thanks
MNHQ

I haven't read anyone say they don't feel happy having other people's partners around during the day

Actually I think quite a number of people have complained about the behaviour of other patients' visitors, which was one reason (amongst many) that some people didn't like the idea of extending their visitors stay.

Are female partners allowed to stay? Are we kicking up a fuss about that? Are they lumped in with the men as "extra people?"

Yes, I would have thought so. Extra bodies around who aren't medical staff and who are strangers to the rest of the patients aren't welcome overnight.

This is a staggeringly badly thought out idea.
By all means, make sure there are more staff, make sure women are supported, more bf help for example, but don't add double the amount of people on a ward!
Staff can't cope as it is!

I have spent many nights on childrens wards, of course they are very different in the fact that parents NEED to be able to stay, but at night time it does add to the disruption on the ward without doubt.

Now if we are talking about needing support should we allow 2 parents/adults to stay with each child when they are in hospital so they can provide support then? (because I know in my case that was when I needed the support more than when I was on a postnatal ward as ill as I was!). Or just when an adult is in hospital should we allow someone to stay with them then? Where do you draw the line?

Ime people completely ignore the rules anyway.
The woman next to me had at least 8 visitors at each visiting time.
It was madness.
I was struggling to feed a very small, jaundiced baby.
It was awful.
I had my second baby at a different hospital and left after 8 hours! NO WAY was I going on a post natal ward again!

Lots of people have said they don't want any extra people overnight male or female, and it is not sexist to say that men and women should be treated differently in some circumstances.

This is a situation where women are uniquely vulnerable and they shouldn't be put at risk, or made to feel uncomfortable just because dad's would like to stay too.

totally agree with Cultural Bear - saying no to this campaign for me is not about complacency with the current state of maternity wards, I just think its misplaced effort. Would be very pro a campaign to provide increased levels of assistance/care for women overnight/when partners not available - like cultural Bears idea a sort of night doula/extra HCAs provided by the hospital who could free up the midwives by helping with certain tasks and giving a greater level of service. By all means campaign for private rooms to be standard in the future but the way to obtain this is long term demand for
maternity funding , not conferring a sort of spurious 'right' to stay

The bodies involved with the birth stay in the post-natal ward. Anyone else is a visitor and must observe visiting hours. Advocate for extra medical staff instead.

Women commit crimes too. Women talk loudly and curse and disrupt others. So do I have a right to demand a private room?

Yeah all those post natal women out on the rob.

Sorry I don't give a fuck about it being "sexist" against men.

I'll sooner concern myself with the 99% of sexism that fucks over women that no one worries about (like them being expected to take in their own partners instead of being given proper medical care)

"Are female partners allowed to stay? "

No, they aren't.

It's a no from me because of available space on most wards.

@CinnabarRed

RowanMumsnet - surely this thread highlights that your next campaign ^must6be to improve the provision of care on post-natal wards? Please?

That's the campaign I want.

Hello! We've been thinking about the postnatal issue for a while. Do please (CulturalBear) use the Mumsnet Campaigns topic to start a thread about it and see what other MNers think. Of course we do already have the Bounty Mutiny and Miscarriage Care campaigns, which means right now we're already making quite a lot of requests of hospitals and the government bodies related to health. So it might not be something we can do straight away, just in terms of how effective we can be, and how many 'asks' we can reasonably make at one time: but as ever we're happy to hear your views.

And how uncomfortable is that then? And how would you know? Loudly and complainingly uncomfortable? Quietly weeping? Silently stressed? Lightly humiliated? Nervous and unable to sleep?

Why is this a better solution than having more staff on hand to support mothers? Oh wait - it's cheaper!

No, I don't think that partners should be allowed to stay.

I've got 5 DC and have stayed in the postnatal ward twice, after my 2 C-sections (DC4 and DC5) and both times developed PTSD. Due to the needs of our other DC, DH could only visit for about 10 minutes every day, even when I was in HDU. There were several inconsiderate visitors when I was in including one MIL who insisted on holding her screaming granddaughter saying "she wants her nanna" when she clearly wanted to feed. One granny pointed her walking stick at DS5 saying "he's jaundiced" and another mum's visitors speculated about why I didn't have DS4 with me when he was in SCBU. Both times I'd had the birth from hell and just wanted to be at home with my babies.

Would I support better post-natal wards with private rooms to allow fathers to stay - absolutely.

But fathers on existing wards. Much as I would have loved my own husband there, absolutely not. I love the birthrights charity, but I think that this is a badly thought through campaign:

• noise (especially at night. Extra people going to the loo. Extra conversations every time the baby wakes, etc)

-stretched facilities (e.g. toilets, etc, even if it is the public ones off ward)

• space
• disruption for staff
• privacy issues
• cultural issues for some woman
• abuse survivors having to sleep around men not known to them.

It isn't about 'tarring all men with the same brush'. It's about the fact that, without proper facilities it is not appropriate to have people on the ward overnight other than the patients (and it's not comparable with parents on children's wards.) When you are in a vulnerable position, it is one thing having to share with others in that vulnerable position, another to share with adults who are not. And that would, for me, apply as much to lesbian couples, grandmas, etc as it would for fathers.

whosafraidofnaomiwolf

Well I have and I hated it. I didn't bother responding writing down my feelings for the hospital but maybe I should have since it doesn't count if they didn;t read it.

No to men on maternity wards. But yes please to being able to have someone remain with you overnight (a sister, mother, friend). I'd have really loved that.

No thanks.

I wouldn't want DH or anyone else's partner around during what is essentially a recovery process.

He would have plenty of time to look after me once I got home.

I would be delighted to support this campaign. Unfortunately, my experience of giving birth in hospital to my first was horrific and I would have felt much safer both then and in subsequent births with my partner present. I agree that there would also need to be some serious upgrading of facilities to allow for the necessary privacy for all concerned, but I would see that as a positive step, too.

No.

If you want your partner there overnight pay for a private room. There are single sex wards for a reason.

Another no here. My husband is the lovely, caring type. But if I'm really honest, I was relieved when he had to go home. I needed some quiet, alone time to rest and recover.

Are female partners allowed to stay?

No

Are we kicking up a fuss about that?

Well, no. But we're not "kicking up a fuss" in general -- we're declining to get involved in kicking up a fuss to change the rules so that partners could stay.

Are they lumped in with the men as "extra people?"

Yes. Because they are people and they are extra.

When posters on this thread have described the behaviour of daytime visitors which has made them very glad that those visitors weren't there all night the visitors have very often been female.

There are issues specifically relating to men on postnatal wards around privacy, for example, and women who are survivors of rape or sexual abuse (official statistics estimate that one in five women so on average that'd be at least one in every six-bed postnatal ward -- has experienced sexual violence as an adult and one in twenty has been raped) being particularly vulnerable after childbirth. But IMO all the other gender-blind issues outlined here are compelling enough by themselves.

See this thread"

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1343606-to-not-want-strange-men-in-the-ante-natal-ward

iwasinamandbunit When you say

I would not cope with men being on a ward like this at all

do you mean that literally and that there should be no opportunity for new fathers (or come to that new uncles or older brothers if old enough to be quiet) to visit during regular and limited hours, or do you mean overnight?

I agree with everyone else.

However, I think there's plenty for blokes to do at home. Often labour starts unexpectedly and there are things to sort out at home. I found it really nice to come home to a clean house, fresh sheets, food in the fridge, no washing up, etc. How could he have done that if he was in the hospital the whole time? And if the men stay in hospital they'll be knackered and, let's face it, most aren't at their best then.

Not unless have single rooms. Bad enough having loads of men on the ward for visiting time!! It's about woman's health first, bonding has plenty of time.