What do you think about spouses/partners staying overnight on postnatal wards?

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

The organisation Birthrights (with whom we've done some stuff in the past) are planning a new campaign called First Night, and wanted to know whether it's something MN could support - so we said we'd ask you lot!

Here's Birthrights' description of the campaign:

'Birthrights is a human rights in childbirth charity, and we will be launching a campaign later this year to ensure women aren't left alone on often over-staffed postnatal wards, but instead can choose to have their partner remain with them overnight. We will be researching what's important to women, partners and staff, the barriers and benefits, and working with units who've implemented this policy to draw up best practice guidelines to use as they lobby for change.'

So please let us know what you think. Is this something you'd like us to swing behind?

Thanks
MNHQ

If everyone were given a single en-suite room then maybe, otherwise no.

I was actually frightened of the man whose partner had the bed opposite mine.

Husbands and partners were allowed to visit from 8am to 8pm and keep children with them as well and that was too long.

This man was there the entire time but didn't do one thing to help his partner or care for their baby. He watched her TV and complained about it being fucking shite. He used his phone and complained about being fucking bored. He got progressively louder and angrier as the day went on because he wanted a fucking drink or a fucking fag without having to go to the fucking car park.

Everyone else (four of us on the ward) kept their curtains closed for privacy. I'd kept mine open as they said DS needed natural light because he was jaundiced following a forceps birth but they stuck us in the corner away from the window but next to the door and sink.

This man kept pushing through the curtains around his partners bed and coming into my space to get to the sink and it was intimidating.

I'd had a bad time in labour, I couldn't walk without help, was struggling to breastfeed and was very worried about anything happening to DS. After a previous stillbirth and losing a premature daughter as well, I felt very worried that something would happen to DS. I'd been very ill after losing our daughter and it had meant that I needed two operations while pregnant with DS, during one we almost lost him.

And then this man opposite us tried to start a fight with one of the doctors, who had accidentally knocked a water jug off a bedside table while trying to push his way through the wall of curtains they insisted on keeping closed around them.

He was screaming and swearing and threatening to punch the doctor, who he claimed had almost hit his newborn with the water jug. I was sitting in a chair at the time, half naked and struggling to breastfeed alone. I couldn't move and there was nowhere to go anyway. I thought they were going to start fighting, actually more realistically that the man was going to attack the doctor, and they were going to come crashing through the curtains on top of us.

It was awful. There is no way I could have stayed in hospital overnight if that man had been staying as well, even though I was ill and not ready to leave. We left the next morning anyway, partly because I couldn't cope with another day on the ward with him.

Even without all that, and even with a private en-suite room, I don't think I like the thought of other people being on the ward if they were not the patient.

No from me, except possibly in private rooms where available.

It doesn't mean that I would not have loved having my own husband around, because I would have. However, I would have been rather uncomfortable with other men I didn't know being allowed to stay on an open ward as I felt very anxious and vulnerable after having a baby, even with my second and third ones (though less so). There were very few private rooms in the hospitals I gave birth in.

'Zero tolerance policy' - dont make me laugh!

I haven't read the whole thread but I am appalled at the attitude on here. Talk about sexist.

Why should the lovely men lose out on the first nights of their childs life because some other men are arseholes? Can I complain at being in a bed next to a woman that I think might steal my purse??

I am totally in favour of this and I really wish that after both my kids births I had had my partner with me because I was exhausted, couldn't move and had to struggle to stay awake with the babies. Hospital should be a brief recouperation period, but for me it was more stressful and more tiring than being at home.

See, I've done overnights in paed wards where fathers were also staying. It felt completely different: I was mobile, fully dressed and well, not in pain, not uniquely vulnerable. And so were they. In those circumstances, having men and actually, all the other parents/carers around had no negative impact, except some noise from snoring. There was a good sense with most parents (having a couple of nitwits around is inevitable) of all being in it together.

None of those things applied to the maternity experience. The first night after a Caesarian, you couldn't even stop someone who came in to your cubicle from doing pretty much anything (even just waking you up to ask you a stupid question) without risking serious injury. You'd rip your stitches for sure. You know it, and everyone on the ward knows it. It's a pretty obvious source of massive anxiety.

I'm slightly bewildered about how MN could sign up to getting rid of the Bounty women on the basis what they do is an unjustified intrusion at a difficult time and even consider signing up to have partners/carers on wards overnight. It's inconsistent.

I have nothing to say about this campaign that hasn't been said more eloquently than I could manage; just want to say I agree with the posters who say absolutely not!

I'm actually extremely angry about this ridiculous idea in a way that I find really hard to articulate. I suppose the idea of it just seems like an unspeakable intrusion. Plus it wouldn't be a consideration on any other post-surgical ward.

Support for a campaign like this would probably stop me from going on the Mumsnet forum any more.

And please don't glibly dismiss the concerns as 'sexist'. For one, I am complaining about having extra people of either sex on the ward, and so are many many others.

And there have been a lot of other considered responses about why it won't work beyond saying 'Oh, all men are awful/abusive/dangerous'.

It depends on the birth I think. When I had my c-section I would have loved for my partner to be able to stay as I physically couldn't reach for my baby when she cried. It would have been better for my husband to tend to the baby than having to keep calling the midwife. With my v-bac I was on a ward and I don't think it would have been appropriate to have him stay there too. I'm all for it on a case by case basis.

No way.

I gave birth to my oldest in Westminster hospital, and there were 12 women on the ward. It was bad enough that all the other 11 had visitors all day, even in "quiet time", it would be a nightmare if there were up to 12 random men on the ward at night! I would not be able to sleep a wink if there were constant conversations between new parents about this that and the other.

I think many families would be unhappy about their partners sleeping next to other men, with nothing but a curtain separating them.

Also, it gives the opportunity for a random man to walk in and snatch a baby saying he is the partner of X, Y and Z.

Why not campaign for adequate staffing levels, rather than give the NHS a reason to reduce staff as less will be necessary if family is expected to stay 24/7?

RowanMumsnet - surely this thread highlights that your next campaign ^must6be to improve the provision of care on post-natal wards? Please?

That's the campaign I want.

MNHQ - is there somewhere we can recommend/suggest campaigns?

I think there are two things coming out of this (apart from the obvious) - one that there needs to be more staffing. Could this be Maternity Assistants (if not midwives)? A special new type of HCP who specialises in postnatal care?

Second: I think there needs to be something done about the way men are treated around labour/delivery. I feel very strongly about this, and would love to start a discourse about how men should be treated (in response to everyone saying stop tarring all men with the same potential rapist/pervert/bag nicker brush)

XP CinnabarRed

My experience was pretty much identical to CalamitouslyWrong's. GP did the baby checks at home next day – was lucky they had someone trained but they came to us and community MW were great – we got nothing by staying in postnatal ward.

I do see the problems with single rooms now people have pointed them out - though good design leaving no blind points and making occupants very visible to staff could possible get round them. Still it is academic as most units still have bays.

Why should the lovely men lose out on the first nights of their child’s life because some other men are arseholes? Can I complain at being in a bed next to a woman that I think might steal my purse??

Yes I hated DH missing first night - being sent away about an hour after pfb birth - and yes thanks to staff attitude I could have done with his support - but dealing with yet more people on the ward wouldn’t have been helpful in general. In fact DH hated idea of being sent away so much it converted him to HB – so there are other options out there for some families.

Panda - why should your wish to have a partner stay with you trump the right of every other woman on the same post-natal ward to have a private place to recover after giving birth? I would not care how lovely you say your partner is. I, for one, would not want him there outside visiting hours. He should not be there outside visiting hours.

I agree with Cultural and Cinnabar about the staffing that would be a campaign I would support.

In hindsight my postnatal care was shocking, in the end I discharged myself to somewhere I would get support and attention.

Hmmm, I dunno. There are a lot of "i wouldn't feel right having someone else's partner around" comments on this thread, but I work on a postnatal ward where this policy has just been instigated, and it's working brilliantly. The Dads/Partners/Nana's sometimes are all quiet, calm and respectful (it's a gritty inner-city hospital in an area of high social deprivation, with an overwhelmingly immigrant population), and above all really helpful to have have around for emotional, moral and practical support.

Day and night tend to blur into one with a new baby and I haven't read anyone say they don't feel happy having other people's partners around during the day - night time is not really any different. We have strict rules about bathroom use (women only - visitors have to use the public ones off the ward), and a low tolerance threshold for noise/chatting/any bad behaviour. Thankfully we've not had to call security on any night-time partner issues, though it's a regular enough occurrence during the day. In reality the policy works very well. If any woman were truly uncomfortable with the situation we would do our very best to find her a private room. So far this hasn't happened as the women are the ones benefitting from having an extra pair of hands with a vested and individualised interest in their health, recovery and rest.

I am very, very pro. And on a personal note: I so wish this policy had been in place after the birth of my first baby. It might have helped halt the 18 months of Post-natal depression triggered by the awful loneliness and lack of care I received on my local PN ward x years ago.

Norwegian hospitals have "maternity hotels" - a special post natal ward with single en suite rooms with changing tablets, baths etc, where partners can stay. Meals are served in a dining room much like in a hotel. It is located within the hospital.

I am not being glib.

Women commit crimes too. Women talk loudly and curse and disrupt others. So do I have a right to demand a private room? No I blooming don't. I have to deal with it.

To prevent all men being in a situation because of the actions of some men is sexist. There is no doubt about it. Are female partners allowed to stay? Are we kicking up a fuss about that? Are they lumped in with the men as "extra people?" Somehow I don't think so.

Are there usually mixed gender wards in hospitals?

If you are on a ward then absolutely not.

I would far rather campaigning energy and funding went towards improving existing post natal care through more and better facilities and staff.

But partners aren't patients.

Day and night tend to blur into one with a new baby and I haven't read anyone say they don't feel happy having other people's partners around during the day

Sorry, but loads of people have said how difficult they have found the noise and confusion of extended visiting hours, and how much they longed for the few hours of quiet peace overnight. I think I would have gone mad without that respite.

To me the main problem is the disruption. Potentially doubling the amount of people in the ward is not going to do much to help people really!

Then there is the other problem that SOME partners are abusive and that really can't be ignored.

Yes it would be lovely for people to be able to spend the whole time together etc etc but realistically its not possible and in the nicest possible way you have years of time to spend together.

Thinking about this a bit more - the reason you are on a post natal ward is because you are 'ill' in some way following the birth. (I'm using 'ill' pretty widely to cover the gamut of post natal medical issues.) Therefore you are a patient. I'm sure lots of other patients on other types of ward would also like to have their DPs stay overnight. Why should patients on a post natal ward get special consideration?

Visitors are kicked out at night (obviously with some exceptions in special circumstances) for good reason. The main one being that patients need peace, quiet and privacy (as much as is possible in a hospital setting) to get some rest and sleep. Why should post natal wards be exempt from those good reasons?