What do you think about spouses/partners staying overnight on postnatal wards?

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

The organisation Birthrights (with whom we've done some stuff in the past) are planning a new campaign called First Night, and wanted to know whether it's something MN could support - so we said we'd ask you lot!

Here's Birthrights' description of the campaign:

'Birthrights is a human rights in childbirth charity, and we will be launching a campaign later this year to ensure women aren't left alone on often over-staffed postnatal wards, but instead can choose to have their partner remain with them overnight. We will be researching what's important to women, partners and staff, the barriers and benefits, and working with units who've implemented this policy to draw up best practice guidelines to use as they lobby for change.'

So please let us know what you think. Is this something you'd like us to swing behind?

Thanks
MNHQ

I'm just thinking of some poor woman coming home from hospital with a man who's slept in a chair for the last three night... can you imagine the race to the bed?

Day and night tend to blur into one with a new baby and I haven't read anyone say they don't feel happy having other people's partners around during the day

Mine said exactly that. I left hospital when I really needed to stay in because I couldn't face another day on the same ward as the partner of the woman in the bed opposite mine.

I would have felt the same way about a female partner who behaved in the same way.

And having my own 'lovely' DH with me probably wouldn't have made me feel any better. I'd have been worried that he might be the next person this man turned on, worried DH might have felt the need to speak up or try to help when this bloke kicked off at the staff, worried that even if my DH sat back in silence he might catch the eye of someone who felt a postnatal ward was a good place to re-enact fight club.

I wouldn't have wanted a woman behaving that way either.

He was extreme but I found the other patients visitors hard work. Constantly squeezing by my bed to get to the sink, messing about with the curtains, talking on phones, scraping chairs about, coming to and fro all the time passed my bed, fetching stuff and pushing by my bed all the time because they didn't want to open the curtains around the bed they were visiting, talking loudly, bored older siblings of the new baby playing on the floor, running around, wanting the TV on even though they were the headphone sort so they had them turned up as loud as possible so they could all listen to a dangling headset rather than wear it.

So yes, I did find it hard to have other people's visitors there in the day for so long. It made it impossible to get any peace, any sleep or feel comfortable while being examined or breast feeding. They were even able to hear me discussing things with the midwives, including the deaths of my other babies.

Some patients might be awful, might be violent, might steal or swear or rant, but at least they are patients and they have to be there. Non-patients wandering about and taking up beds and chairs and toilets and bathrooms as well would be worse in my opinion, even if just because they could be chatting half the night or carrying on the to and fro that went on all day.

It is a no from me for all the reasons outlined so eloquently by everyone else.

I'm old enough to have had my first in the days of a cottage hospital with a nursery and babies taken away at night and you wanted if they needed feed. I was in for 10 days with my first. Lots of time to bond and do cuddled and plenty of staff to help.

Totally different when I had my youngest.

What we need is more staff and better professional care - not that case games out to those lucky enough to have a decent partner who is capable of being there.

Surely paternity leave is better saved for when the baby's home?

No, no, no - one thousand times NO.

You're sensible ladies and this doesn't sound like one of your bright ideas so, is this, by any chance, a reversi, MNHQ?

Agree with all the other posters suggesting that more and better staffing is needed, not floor-fillers.

The only possible benefit I could see to this campaign would be that women would be less susceptible to the Bounty lady as their DPs could fend them off.

Other than that, no no no and no. For all the reasons given by PPs. I see the types of people that Viva has described. the thought of having to spend the night with several of them as additional company is not pleasant. Ridiculous campaign.

Sorry, should have said "I see the sort of poeple that viva described every day at work"

I would not be in favour if this. I had a csection and the visitors in the bed next to mine kept pulling on the curtain between us while I was trying to breastfeed. I had no knickers on as had a catheter inserted and felt like crap so couldn't keep pulling the curtains back together. People of all sexes can be inconsiderate and the noise on the ward at night was awful! I only stayed for one night and left the next evening and I had an EMCS. I was lucky in that I recovered very quickly and if I hadn't been allowed to go home would have transferred to a private room.
There were enough care assistants around to help out on my ward even though we were all packed in.

I don't agree that day and night blur together on s ward either. When I was in the ward was actually as dark and quiet as they could make it overnight, to try and give us a chance to sleep.

But I wouldn't have slept at all if there had been a strange bloke inches away. I would have been very frightened to be completely honest. But I wouldn't have said anything and I would bet real money that most abuse survivors wouldn't. It is extremely difficult to say that kind of thing out loud. And I wish I was one of the naive ones who thinks it's easy.

Haven't read the thread (because its asking for personal opinions) mine are....

If this was to become a thing that was being campaigned for then I would turn every single bit of time and attention I possibly could into encouraging as many respected domestic violence support services,domestic violence forums and any other services I could think of to campaign against it.

If you need your husband/partner/next door neighbours dog to stay with you when in hospital then pay for a private room and fill your boots how wonderful because you would have obtained your wish without inflicting it on anybody else.

But why inflict your husband on the 10+ other women also on the ward and how do you fancy the wife beater husband of the woman in the bed next to you being inflicted on you because she will no longer have the ability or support to get even one night respite from him so that means your precious baby and your vulnerable self get to spend the night with him as well.

Very attractive prospect don't you think?

No. For all the reasons stated above. This feels like a push towards the NHS providing even less care for vulnerable women (and all women who are within hours of giving birth are vulnerable). Women shouldn't have to opt for home birth if they want a little privacy and dignity during/after labour. But it seems like that's what we're heading for with bonkers proposals like this.

Hospitals can be fined for having mixed sex wards. (With certain exceptions eg for intensive care).

Often this leads to poorer care, with multiple ward moves and communication breakdowns for often elderly patients. But this is justified because the potential threat to dignity of having to share a ward area with members of the opposite sex (who are themselves patients in need of treatment) is apparently worse.

If mixed sex wards for patients are considered such a bad thing it must be stopped how on earth would this be consistent with introducing mixed sex postnatal wards?

I suppose women who objected could demand care on a general surgical or gynae ward instead, where they would have more privacy but this is far from ideal in terms of medical and nursing care.

Absolutely not, for all the reasons people have already given.

(So, a 'No' from me)

This would have been such a help for me. After 36 hours in labour ending with a traumatic ventouse birth I was physically and emotionally drained. I was heartbroken when my husband wasn't even allowed onto the ward even to settle me into bed. He was abruptly told "you can go now" leaving me and pfb alone. Despite not having slept for 36 hours, I was expected to take total responsibility for baby; the only communication initially given was a stern " no! Don't change baby's nappy on the bed!"
I was scared, exhausted and feeling very isolated ( first time motherhood was a massive shock)!

No no no - for all the reasons stated above. I'd have loved DH to be with me after a horrific first night post CS, but what I really needed was good quality, nurturing post natal care for me & my new baby. That is what we should be focusing on.

To clarify my positon on men v women...

If you havent just given birth or been born then I dont want you having a post baby sleep over! I dont care who you are, what gender you are, how old you are or how entitled you believe yourself to be. If you were not one of the two main players in the labour room, you dont belong!

No. Absolutely not from me. I spent 5 days in hospital after having ds, he was in nicu and fighting for his life. Because of lack of space/resources I was with many others who had their babies with them. That was hard enough. Visiting hours were awful with family and extended family there for others.

There just aren't the resources to separate people like me, and having more people would have made things far far worse. Without wishing to be unfair I think that mothers who get to keep their babies with them and then leave should realise how much harder it could be. They'll be home soon enough.

I am not sure I thought this before but I have been on ortho wards with a broken arm being the person well enough to get help when a much older woman fell out of bed. I have been in nicu when they decide which baby is well enough to move even when clinically they still require nicu care. Lets campaign for improving that first.

In an ideal world I may think differently, if there was space, private rooms, decent ratios of midwife/nursing care etc. but sadly there isn't and resources should be spent on improving medical care rather than turning hospitals into hotels. I'd happily pay more taxes to improve the NHS, but not to spend money on healthy men staying on wards.

On a personal level, I had my first dc at 3am, was around 5 by the time we were both cleaned up and DH was left at the ward door. Those were the loneliest, most frightening few hours of my life, sat there, exhausted but buzzingnand in pain with a newborn to look after (and no clue!) and everyone else asleep. DH also felt awful having to go home and leave us both there as he knew exactly how overwhelmed I would be.

My second I had in a midwife- led unit with private rooms, a double bed set up and DH was allowed to stay. The difference was incredible. I'm all for letting the men stay if they are wanted in that situation.

On any ward there could be privacy concerns. I didn't really enjoy bleeding through my nightdress in front of a room full of people regardless of their gender and presumably these men are there with their partners who have also just given birth and not on a day trip. I fully appreciate that not everybody feels the same way I do on this though.

The d/a aspect would worry me. But my husband was asked to leave the room during several of my antenatal appointments so that the relevant questions could be asked. I'm sure similar provisions could be made.

I'm all for letting the men stay if they are wanted in that situation.

But from the DA angle (which I know you touched on) it could quite easily not come down to what the woman wanted in that situation, but what their abuser insists on.

And they wouldn't be wanted by all the other women who are staying on the ward. Who are having to share limited facilities with them.

I can definitely understand all the reasons why not to and safety should outweigh everything else.

For us individually, it would have been a godsend. I was in the labour ward, recovering from 4th degree tear, DS was in intensive care. The staff were very overstretched. If DH had been able to stay, he could have helped me get down to DS more often (I couldn't get there on my own), he could have helped me go to the toilet, get showered, organised the expressed milk to get to DS...

Haven't read the full thread, but no, not unless in a private room. A campaign for more midwives OTOH would get my full support.

unless it's in a private room and nursing care is still more than adequate then I don't agree with this at all.

there wouldn't be a need if the care was there, if a nurse/midwife would actually come when the button is pressed because baby is turning blue...