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Original poster

German Manners? Or Just Rude?

126 replies

NotQuiteCockney · 08/10/2005 22:36

Looking for input from any German or German-resident mumsnetters.

A friend of mine is German. It was her son's birthday recently, so she asked me to make a hat for him. I was flattered that she liked my knitting so much, but also a bit flummoxed, I don't enjoy knitting in a hurry. Was this normal German directness? Or just being rude?

She also claims that Germans don't ask their kids to say "please" and "thank you", as saying it without meaning it is bad. Or something. Is that true? I've only visited Germany briefly, but I remember a lot of "danke" and "bitte" happening. Surely everyone didn't always mean it?

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tribpot · 08/10/2005 22:43

Hee hee. I can't speak for Germany, but for Holland and Sweden what you have described is quite normal. And actually now I come to think of it, once in Spain a friend said to me "why did you say 'thank you' to the woman on the till in the supermarket? That's her job". We do place a much higher value on 'please' and 'thank you' here, it is quite hard to get used to.

spookylucy · 08/10/2005 22:49

I agree noone says please or thankyou as much as the brits. Infact i dont say please as much in Spanish as i do in English. Germans are very direct so she probably didnt realise, you need to talk to hausfrau, shes in Germany.

LIZS · 08/10/2005 22:50

Hmm didn't find that in Switzerland (German speaking area). Manners were very much order of the day there even when being quite direct.

ScarySkribble · 08/10/2005 22:51

I worked for a german company and i found them to much more direct and not so much pleasantries. Their sentence construction can also make it sound worse than is ever intended.

ScarySkribble · 08/10/2005 22:52

I also found instructions and request were very formal.

LIZS · 08/10/2005 22:53

Agree the English can come acroos as a bit brusque (often due to direct translation of German grammar) but still plenty of pleases and thank yous.

edam · 08/10/2005 22:56

Love the thread title!

busybusybee · 08/10/2005 23:11

I work with several Germans - they are often rude - very very direct, blunt and rarely say please and thankyou as often as i would like - they also generally assume everything from their country is better than the British version

Runs for cover as I dont wish to offend!!!!!!!!! This may just be true of the people I work with - no wish to offend all GermanMNetters

Original poster
NotQuiteCockney · 09/10/2005 08:38

Maybe the please/thank you thing is regional variation.

She's a nice person, but quite negative (which I don't think is German, she's just like that), and I struggle with being friends with her sometimes. Well, often. Her kids are very nice and well-behaved, and get on well with mine. And she's so strict about food and television, she makes me look incredibly relaxed, which is refreshing!

I am flattered about the requested hat, and happy to give a gift that will be used. But I found it quite stressful to make something to order, on a deadline I hadn't chosen.

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Pruni · 09/10/2005 08:54

Message withdrawn

doormat · 09/10/2005 09:00

nqc my dd1 lives in germany and has said many times that germans are rude,
I agree with people here that it must be a cultural thing, I also think we take a lot of things to heart that arent meant to be offensive.

bobbybob · 09/10/2005 09:08

When I was in my early twenties I left a job because I was sure the new German director hated me and wanted me to just make coffee. Looking back I think it was just a cultural gap that I didn't understand. His first question to everyone was always "what do your parents do?" I just said where they worked and didn't give a rank or anything, because I just thought it was small talk. Then I noticed all the German CVs that came off the fax machine had parents occupation listed, and the girl whose father was a company director got promoted above me.

Love Germany though - went there for my holidays for years.

Pruni · 09/10/2005 09:12

Message withdrawn

Original poster
NotQuiteCockney · 09/10/2005 10:07

Pruni, he didn't like the hat. But then, he's five, and I'm pretty sure he wanted more toys. She didn't (shocker).

He also said it didn't fit, but I think it did. He had fallen off his bike that morning, and half his head was swollen and road rashy and horrible, so that may explain it.

(Realistically, most five-year-olds will only get enthusiastic about hats with pirate/batman sorts of themes.)

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Original poster
NotQuiteCockney · 09/10/2005 10:10

I can see the English way is more work, but it would at least give me the feeling of choice. I did throw in a jar of fart putty, which was a hit.

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HausOfHorrors · 09/10/2005 10:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
NotQuiteCockney · 09/10/2005 10:46

Ah, so it's bigger than just please and thankyou. I can see an argument against please and thankyou, and directness is easier in some ways.

But letting people off the bus (lift, whatever) before you get on, and queueing, are necessary!

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ghoulgrrl · 09/10/2005 10:54

I am German (but have lived here sooo long I always say my please and thankyou's ) and yes - it does sound like German directness to me. It always gets to me when we go back for family gatherings and other social occasions - my family are all lovely and polite, but a lot of other people are rather lacking, which never fails to enrage me (though I seethe quitely - see just how English I've become! ).

CousinItH · 09/10/2005 11:31

ghoulgrrl, is this correct then? What bobbybob posted?

"Then I noticed all the German CVs that came off the fax machine had parents occupation listed, and the girl whose father was a company director got promoted above me."

That's awful!!!

laligo · 09/10/2005 11:58

i have a newish german acquaintance and find her extremely direct and presumptuous - i thought she was pretty rude until dp pointed out there's probably a big cultural difference.

however one thing she does that i think IS rude is slag off english people - "you english are so cold" "english people are repressed" etc etc. i had not said "you are a typical intrusive blunt rude german person" because i would not be so rude!!!

teeavee · 09/10/2005 12:32

I was put up by people here in brittany while I looked for accomodation as a student. They were my age, roughly. I kept repeating thank you thank you until finally they told me to stop - they said that the bretons don't really say thank you, they just do you a favour in return.
There is no real word for thank you in the breton language! (well, there is, but it's a fairly recent add-on, hardly ever used colloquially),
So the Bretons often seem terse and a bit rude to me too.

FairyMum · 09/10/2005 12:33

I know many lovely and very polite Germans I have to say and none who have told me to "knit hat!" I think even if it's a cultural difference it's always good to pick up on what is considered custom in the country you are in. I have lived in Britain for so many years now I apologise when people step on my foot.....
From my point of view, I like the way the British are polite, but I also find that they could do with a bit more of the European directness. I find that British people typically moan behind peoples backs and are too afraid (some would say polite) to say to their faces.

Rowlers · 09/10/2005 13:36

A German colleague recently showed us a comical but very truthful list of examples of how different we are.
English boss says "You've put a lot of effort into that"
What he / she means - "It's not good enough"
What the German person interprets - "He / She is really pleased with me"

roisin · 09/10/2005 13:50

Politeness and manners are dictated to by culture. There is no logic to it. Some countries/cultures are closer than others to a British view of things - for example China. But that doesn't mean they are right. Behaviour that is completely acceptable in the UK now, would have been outrageous 150 years ago.

I struggled a bit with these issues when I lived in Germany, but generally got used to it. If I wanted/needed something I learned to ask, rather than wait for someone to offer. And if I did request something, or someone asked me, then "no" was a perfectly acceptable answer.

Original poster
NotQuiteCockney · 09/10/2005 13:53

laligo, I think slagging off the dominant culture is more ... understandable than slagging off a foreign one, IYSWIM. I say this as a Canadian living in the UK. I choose to be here, and really, I do prefer it here to in Canada, and I tell Brits as much, to their surprise. But that doesn't mean I don't find some aspects of English culture unpleasant.

My friend didn't quite say "knit hat!". She said something along the lines of, "oh, I was thinking, could you make Alexander one of your lovely hats for his birthday? he needs a hat for winter". While a Brit would ... I don't know. Suggest it, give me room to volunteer a hat as a gift? I'd be left with the impression it was my idea.

She certainly hasn't become very English living here, and often talks about how much she prefers Germany for some things. But that's understandable.

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