German Manners? Or Just Rude?

[NotQuiteCockney]

Looking for input from any German or German-resident mumsnetters.

A friend of mine is German. It was her son's birthday recently, so she asked me to make a hat for him. I was flattered that she liked my knitting so much, but also a bit flummoxed, I don't enjoy knitting in a hurry. Was this normal German directness? Or just being rude?

She also claims that Germans don't ask their kids to say "please" and "thank you", as saying it without meaning it is bad. Or something. Is that true? I've only visited Germany briefly, but I remember a lot of "danke" and "bitte" happening. Surely everyone didn't always mean it?

Urghh, wince, yes, that sounds like a typically German thing to say. Agree with FairyMum though, when in Rome, do as the Romans do! When I started my first job in the UK (I'm German), I would first write my e-mails "German-style", then go over them again and fill in loads of "please", "thank you", "perhaps, if you wouldn't mind", "if you would be so kind as to"... Have to add, this has become second nature to me now, and I have a hard time getting back to the German way of doing things when I go back there for a visit! One thing that particularly p*es me off is that German habit of telling people exactly where you think they're going wrong, and expecting them to be grateful for the advice. I've become so British now that, instead of pointing this out to my fellow Germans, I grumble about it on MN instead...

About listing your parents' occupation on your CV, I think that's gone a bit out of fashion now, thank goodness. And you only used to do that anyway if you were a 16-year old school-leaver applying for an apprenticeship, as far as I'm aware!

Aha, it was a factory, though I worked in the offices - obviously I couldn't understand most of the CV, and they were applying for jobs in other factories so I guess that was it.

I can't help thinking that if I'd bigged up my parents that day (or at least been accurate) I would have done better.

NQC, Canadians also have a reputation for being polite - and my very limited experience backs that up. Do you think there is a difference between Canadian politeness and English or British politeness?

i dont htink we are polite we are just scared
all this " oh woudl you mind awfully if you haeva minute to posssibly knit a hat"
in german is can you kniwt a hat
rememebr also they are MUCH More precise with teir verbs; konnen durfen a sn so on

Knitnnen Sie Den hat

interesting edam... i am english and spent a year in canada and had terrible culture shock - felt like i couldn't get through to anyone's "genuine" self as they were all so polite, in what to me seemed like a fake way, but i'm sure they wouldn't have seen it like that. maybe that's what it's like being german and being around brits.

that reminds me...
i have a english friend who is still in canada - she stayed when i left. remember when that plane crashed in toronto recently and everyone escaped. my friend said there was a canadian news report on it and a news reporter interviewed a french guy who'd been on board. he described the awful scene, smoke, panic, he feared it was the end of his life, he leapt to safety etc etc. the reporter said "well thank god you are safe olivier. and by the way, welcome to canada!"

this was genuine not a piss-take but to a brit it's hilarious... (or at least to me)

well i speak german nad dh is candian
so a double wahmmy chez fish

You've obviously got a richer experience of Canada than mine - my opinion of her people is based on one holiday and various Canadians I've met down the years. Who have all been absolutely lovely. But I can imagine it might drive you crazy if you live with it all the time and it feels like you can't get past the facade.

Was very impressed watching an ice-hockey match between Vancouver and some US team - this is a game Canadians really, really care about but they lived up to their national stereotype and applauded the opposting team's goals. Swear I heard people shout 'oh, good shot' in true early 20th century English style! Very bizarre that the crowd was so polite while there is all sort of mayhem on the rink, players basically ripping each other's arms off...

Cod, your dh isn't Quebecois, is he (sorry, haven't found accents etc. on my keyboard)?

nah trrrronnno

Was just a thought re. unusual names!

I would say Canadians are more polite/reserved/indirect than Americans, but less so than Brits, really. It's only by comparison to Americans that we seem really polite.

Well, it's more complicated than that, really. English people tend to say the unsayable, with jokes, in a way that's quite alarming when you're not used to it.

Canadians (and Americans) have different boundaries than Brits. Canadian women you don't know will talk to you about their periods in public loos. (Gah) But that doesn't mean they're great friends with you.

Oh, and laligo, that plane story rings entirely true. Canadians "do" sincerity much more than Brits do. I sometimes find the British aversion to sincerity rather annoying. (e.g. saying "Tell us how you really feel, don't hold back" in response to ranting.)

I was shocked at Disneyland Paris watching loads of German, French, Italian and Spanish parents surging at the charactors whenever they appeared. They pushed and shoved their kids to the front and we witnessed one occasion where a huge argument in various languages followed, of course we were in the queue with all the British families growling under our breath.

Where is your German friend from NQC? I lived in Berlin and they were quite breath-takingly rude by UK standards, although I got used to it after a few months. Even by German standards they were rude, I've found people much more polite in other German cities but that could be because I'm bracing myself for Berlin rudeness.

This is interesting (and very funny!!)My French bil wets himself on every trip to this country by counting the amount of pleases and thank yous and wildly over the top superlatives that accompany any financial transaction in the UK

'Smashing! Thirty two ppieces Thank you!'

Mind you, French people tell me (I did a French degree meself aeons ago and like to keep my hand in..)that they find the British inability to greet someone in a shop rather rude.

(Eg 'BonjourMadame.Deux baguettes s'il vous plait'

Don't know much about Germans but we did have a student on placement with us in work who was breathtakingly rude. Pissed everybody off no end. The final straw was at a party when he said to my colleague
'You will get me another beer.'

Turks seem incredibly polite and hospitable although I do have to rein in the gratuitous please and thank yous and constantly remind dh to do the same.

I'm tempted to ask you to knit my DS a hat too, NQC!
I think I would ask a friend in those terms to knit a hat if i knew it was something they did - and quite often peple like to have an idea for a present. Doesn't sound 'blunt' to me at all!

Joke: How do you get 600 canadians out of a swimming pool on a boiling hot day?
Ask them politely.

I worked in T'raano on and off for 3 years, and found canadians refreshingly clear and direct. I think there is a difference in taste - candians are sincere - but Brits can find it sentimental. Cnadian theatre audiences will sit through very sentimental (to british taste) stuff - but are then a very undemonstrative audience. The canadian actors who came here loved the british audiences.

but the beer comment translated directly into german again woudlnt be rude
!

Yes the beer comment is probably just a case of word order, inflection and possibly wrong choice of verb. 'Willst du' in German means 'do you want to' or 'would you please', not 'will you'.

I've been pondering this thread since it began yesterday. I live in Germany, married to a German and I cannot reconcile the rudeness and arrogance of Germans (particularly when behind the wheel of their big fat mercedes) with their kindness and tolerance. I think as many have said here, things do get lost in translation and here it really is a case of calling a spade a spade without meaning to be overtly offensive. I often have complete strangers, usually elderly women coming up to me in the street and suggesting how my children should be warmly dressed or whatever. Although I may want to tell them to f off and mind their own business, I know they are really just being considerate, so smile sweetly (not that I know how to say f off in German anyway)

But the Germans are incredibly tolerant and respectful of individual rights. In our neighbourhood there is a man who walks around naked and has done for about 30 years. I think he has an exclusion zone within which he has to operate, but he just gets on with it and people pretty much leave him to it. He's not a pervert or anything, he's just naked. I can't really see that happening in the UK - he'd be lynched. So no, they're not big on please and thank you here, but they have respect for people and I find that more important and appealing.

i must be getting a bit frenchified because I've started saying things like 'bonne journee' and bon weeken' etc when i leave ashop or end any conversation - it's so french, but also reminds me of the American 'have a nice day'!
the weirdest such french comment is 'Bonne continuation' - said to uns in a restaurant - as in "good continuation (of your meal"
That, imo is ott - my dp didn't even understand it either!

Yes franke..so much is lost in translation,you are right.
Turks are terrifyingly bad drivers,aggressive,dangerous and impatient but as people are so unbelievably charming and kind that it sometimes brings tears to my eyes.
There is a real warmth to them that is lacking in the UK. We may have a plethora of please and thankyous embellishing every sentence but underneath it all,I don't think we're very nice people at all...

If I go to the park with my kids in Turkey,I will invariably be called over to join one of the many posses of kids and women enjoying a picnic and tea.
How many British women would do the same to an obviously foreign woman on her own???

In Welsh,it is really jolly and friendly to refer to one's spouse as y gwr/gwraig, something which sounds vile in English.

I moved to the UK 15 years ago. Initially I liked the English politeness. But after a while found this so-called politeness of saying thank you etc just a routine of people and started appreciating the directness of the poeple of my country. Al least you know where you stand.

Yes, the have a nice day thing is weird isn't it? They say it here too (Schön Tag noch) which is another paradox because service culture here is almost non-existant, although things are improving slowly. Gawd, don't get me started on German supermarkets!

Yes, moondog, people share like that in the playground here too sometimes.

Sorry,forgot to add my translation!

Meant that in Welsh it is nice to say 'the wife/husband' but not so in English.

(Bloody hell,must wake up!)