Protecting myself and my future as a farmers wife?

[DahliaBr]

Hoping someone can relate or offer some advice.

I am happily married to a farmer. We live in a house with our child and another on the way. Our house is owned by the farm and the farm is currently owned by my husband’s father.
My husband’s father who’s in his 60s still won’t let go of the farm and hand it over to my husband.
Recently my husband’s parents have become very toxic towards me. I feel they are not happy that I am pregnant again because it takes my husband away from the farm to take care of our children. They have openly attacked me over with their toxic opinion's about women having children. There has been a lot of negative behaviour towards which has made me feel very sad and insecure about my security here living on the farm. My husband protects me and supports me but my worry is what if something happened to my husband.
How would I protect myself and my children? I have become especially worried since they have become toxic towards me.
What rights do I have? Is there anything I can do to protect myself?

I literally own nothing or have anything to secure myself.

It should be possible to buy life insurance for yourself online. I wouldn't approach your bank, you'll get a really bad deal.

As a first step, you need to look at Martin Lewis's website Moneysavingexpert.com and find his articles on life insurance/assurance. This will help you work out what sort of policy you need.

Your policy needs to give your husband a high enough pay out to pay for full time carers for your disabled children. £1million pay out invested should give him an income of £40-£50k for childcare.

His policy, which as someone else has said, can be provided by his own company, ie his employer, should give you a lump sum to buy a house, or at least a hefty proportion of a house, and a good income from any left over invested at around 4-5% return.

Critical illness cover for you - it can be tricky to choose a policy as there are lots of exclusions. However, if you become too ill to look after your kids, or have surgery that takes months to recover from, then you need enough to pay for childcare.

Your husband needs similar - something that will pay out enough for you all to live on while he recovers.

Again, look at the MSE website, you will find so much help there.

Wills are absolutely essential - they became important when you got married and absolutely essential once you got married. Speak to a lawyer, expect to pay around £1000 for wills for both of you. Make sure you are protected if your husband dies. Nominate guardians for your kids (preferably not your PIL as they don't seem to like kids very much) and executors. The only beneficiaries in the will should be each other and your kids.

Again MSE will give you info on wills so you can learn about them before approaching a solicitor, but you must have them written professionally in your situation.

Re assets: is all the land your DH owns used for farming? Can any be developed into something else commercial? Either residential or business?

You say your husband has lots of land? Could he sell some and you buy a house together?

The NFU (with whom I have insurance) are forever sending me flyers about getting financial advice about pensions etc. They probably are a good source of advice in your situation. You can make informed decisions about what is best to do without knowing what the options are legally.

Being 60 is nothing in agricultural terms. In many farming families, that's around the age the next generation take charge, not hands over.

Lots of good advice here already:

Life Insurance, if he should die, usually should be written in simple trust so it doesn’t get held up by any bigger Estate process.

Life insurance for you probably doesn’t need to be as high as you need if he dies.

Critical Illness insurance if you can afford it.

Income Protection plan - is there any insurance if he is unable to work through illness or injury

NFU could be helpful for the above but a general financial adviser could easily help you navigate this and do all the forms.

A Will for him is mission critical if one doesn’t currently exist that favours you. Solicitor, ideally not the one who advises the PIL, but who does have adequate knowledge of farms and land - someone else suggested a Land & Estates specialist or words to that effect. Farms and all the ownership stuff can be tricky if working blind so you might have to use existing solicitor who knows the set up.

Power of Attorney - no one has mentioned- also important if he owns loads of land. If he was alive but unable to manage the land in his name, through major illness or injury - you need POA for him. Solicitor is critical to help navigate this.

it’s not a terrible suggestion either, if he owns the land, that it could be changed to joint ownership with you but that’s also something to take advice on to cover all relevant aspects.

otherwise saving money in your own name or joint names and/or buying a property off the farm but that might not be affordable at this time.

it’s great he is on your side - if he sees how toxic the PIL are to you he will hopefully be on board for necessary meetings etc. Farms and farmers do work in a realm outside of the norm in my experience but much of the advice above is generally good for anyone with children or where the asset base is tricky and/or not in joint names already. What do you really know about land? What land is it? Is it surrounded by other land he doesn’t own which essentially limits who could do what in practice? (I’m not actually expecting answers I’m asking you what you know properly for yourself so that you are informed)

You’ve potentially got a lot on the to-do list but you could also potentially achieve a lot in a short space of time if he’s on board and you get to financial adviser and solicitor pronto, and have massive peace of mind that you know what’s what and have control of the bits you can control.

Best of luck with it all.

Thank you. I don’t have disabled children, I am a self employed carer for children with disabilities.

Thank you for the advice. It’s all so very baffling. It’s hard because his parents have all the documents and information. If my husband approached them about this kind of stuff I know they would be offended. It worries me that they may not be honest with him. Even just asking if he had a life insurance policy through the farm would be an insult to them.

I think we need to set up life insurance for him independently and possibly write a will.
The only thing I can do is try and get my husband to help me with this and start saving some money for myself.
I wish I had a good about of money somewhere that I could use a backup but right now I have nothing.

It really scares me that his parents have all the power. The only support I have if I needed it is my parents but I can’t just hope it will all ok.

I can see both sides of this too but if op’s in-laws have concerns then there are different ways of handling it than being horrible to their dil, and they certainly can’t dictate how many children she and their son have. What they are doing is bullying and it’s despicable. They need to sit down and have a proper business meeting about it all.

Op, it’s great that your dh is supportive but you must have known when you married in that your dh would be working very long hours and be on call 24/7 and you would be on your own with the dc a lot? And that part of the pact of receiving free housing is that your dh is available to work at least six days a week?

it’s also reasonable that he gets some time off to be with you and the dc on Sundays and evenings etc. And accompanying you to ultrasounds doesn’t sound unreasonable at all.

In your shoes I think I would go back to your research and science job asap after the birth of your baby while your research skills are still current and somehow scrape together enough money for a child-minder. And before that see a solicitor and take care of the financials and wills that others have suggested and don’t forget your own pension. And try and buy a house elsewhere. TBH farming has become such a precarious way of living nowadays that you need to do this anyway to protect yourself and the dc.

And congratulations on your pregnancy! I am so sorry that your mil is ruining it for you.

I’m sorry too, but the work load on the farm is so unrelenting that I can understand the strain on your fil if your dh has suddenly started doing much less two days a week because he is minding your first child, especially to facilitate you doing a low paid job, albeit a very important one.

Do you know the state of your pils finances and the farm finances and the strain they are under? You are getting free housing and part of the deal is that your husband works in a team with his parents. Do you know any other farmer’s wives nearby that you can talk to about this? You’re pils do sound very unpleasant though so I am sorry you are going through this 💐

That’s really sad 😢

Reading your update op, the family pact works both ways and if your pils want your dh to be a proper part of the team then they need to have proper legacy meetings and be open and businesslike and share all of the paperwork and the accounts and plans for inheritance. Your dh can’t just work all hours on the basis of vague trust that one day he may inherit. Perhaps it’s not as bad as this if your dh owns the land but your in laws do need to be more business-like and transparent.

If they refuse to do this, and given that your fil might be active in the farm for the next twenty years (a farmer near me is 77 and still going strong) then I think your dh is within his rights to challenge his parents that he might go freelance too!

But the transition between father and son or daughter is a fraught business and notoriously difficult as farmers generally speaking hate giving up control. You need this sorted though op as you don’t want to live in a toxic atmosphere for the next twenty years.

This all boils down to money and the best way to have as much autonomy away from your in-laws, and as much security for you and your dc, is frankly to earn as much money as you possibly can. Can you start looking around for scientific research jobs when you finish your maternity leave?

You are part of the team now and in return for free housing you need to contribute but at the same time your pils should recognise that you can’t do this when looking after small dc and that’s just the reality of the situation atm. 💐

Do they get time off? I've only known 1 farmer through work and time off was not a thing.

They still have 100% inheritance tax relief of £2.5m. And then there is further relief for transfer between spouses.

Unless one of the disabled children is yours, plan to go back and get a “proper” job with benefits and a considerably better salary. Yes, you’ll need to put in place paid childcare but it’s far and away the best thing you can do to ensure your own future finanacial stability - and that of your family.

I have a “proper” job!!! Obviously you’re stuck in the 9-5 rat race. Thanks for this useless information

How is a family trust a good idea? I don’t see at all how it helps your situation much so would be good to understand why you think it would work to better understand the issue.

I’m not sure what you mean when you said FIL won’t give up the farm, but he is a minority owner and DH owns all the land. That sounds exactly like he’s given up the farm? Who are the majority owners of the farm? What does DH get paid?

Do you own the house you live in? Given a lot of the land has been transferred, if not could this be transferred? If not, then the savings you have on housing costs should be put toward another property - even a buy to let - to ensure you have a foothold in the market if the worst happens.

Wills and life insurances are important too, but it’s hard to say how to best protect yourself without a clearer understand of incomes, structures and who owns what.

Farmer here. You need to get your facts right. Start by finding out the structure of the farm business. Ltd company or partnership. If the former, find out who owns the land. If the latter what is the partnership share of land, assets and responsibilities. Is he a Director of the company or an employee with a contract?

How much land does your husband have his name on? Is it his name? The partnership name? If it’s 60 acres you need to head back to work. If it’s 600 then I wouldn’t worry about a house. If your husband died and your in-laws kicked you out you can sell all your land (as long as you are named in your husbands will) and bigger up their business.

Older farmers are terrified of divorce. Everyone knows someone whose son was happily married for a decade and then died or divorced and the wife got half the farm. No problems with that but lots of them then go onto sell it!!

Another factor would be I can see your PIL point of view. To many here it will seem old fashioned and bonkers. They are still being incredibly selfish though, if they have expectations of you staying home then they need to pay you. And well. Many farm wives in your position are paid a decent wage or share of the farm profits plus pension payments.

Again, depends a little bit on the size of the farm and what you do. Many many farms are heading for serious financial trouble right now. Are you Arable? Pigs? Does the business have big loans If so they may be under a hell if a lot of pressure.

Oh, and if they really have gifted your DH the land then you really can’t complain about them not handing stuff over in their 60’s. Farmers don’t retire at normal ages. They’ve got a good decade of active farming in them and another decade of lessesning duties I’d say! You are long way from retirement being on their radar!

You absolutely can. If you live seven years from the gift you can give it away with no tax at all. And if PIL are married and gifts are sequenced correctly they have give £5m of the farm away with no tax even if they don’t live seven years from the gift.

And OP will be better protected than most if she is married to someone with assets of £5m+!

Hmm 'proper job'?

How old are you @DahliaBr?

If your husband owns the land and leaves it to you in his will I think you’ll have plenty of negotiating power should he die. Can’t farm without land unless it’s intensive pigs or chickens.
The price of land is high enough to sell the land and buy a house. Obviously you’d have to return to work to live.
At the moment is the farm paying a full salary and covering all your energy bills and council tax?
The issue with taking time off might be there just is too much work for mum and dad to do when he’s taking time off. It depends on what type of farm it is but early morning appointments may be delaying feeding up or if you’re arable there’s times of year when significantly more hours are worked every week such as now when it’s cultivating and seeding time.
Im on a sheep farm and at certain times of year it’s all hands to get the job done. Most mums I know on farms use childcare when they work as people in normal jobs do. I used childcare with my two.
The farming family lifestyle is different to normal
families

how old are you?

Your job was as a research scientist? You quit your job to become a carer in order to be part time?

My husband owns a lot of land a said he’s happy to hand it over to me if something happened

well of course he should

Does the farm have a trusted land agent? I would ask your husband to discuss succession planning, especially with the APR IHT changes. Waiting until your FIL dies to hand over the farm is likely to attract significant IHT liabilities. Starting a handover now reduces those liabilities, the farms agent might be an independent and trusted person to discuss that with your FIL.

mortgage a house. Let it out if need be or live in it. You can’t bank on reviving the farm. His parents are only in their 60s, so may not be ready to retire and hand the business over.