Husband thinks we are in a "shit" financial situation, I genuinely don't agree

[Tungtungtungsahur]

Husband 43
Me 41
2 kids 6 & 9
House worth £550k in today's market, mortgage free. 4 bedroom detached with big garden, so big enough for kids as they grow

We took out the mortgage in 2014 when we first bought the house, house was £280k, mortgage was around £210k. Made overpayments over the last few years when interest rates shot up. Sacrificed a fair bit to achieve this, only 2 overseas holidays in last 10 years, 2 cars, both owned outright but 15 and 10 years old respectively. Kitchen needs doing up and house needs a spruce

Both have private pensions. I contribute about 9% monthly which employer matches. He does less, around 5% I believe. I've been working since 22 and have been in private employer pensions in all that time (not always as high as 9%though) , he only really got started around 10 years ago in his early 30s.

Cash in bank £61k

Nothing like ISAs for the kids yet but now we are mortgage free, we're hoping to plough the max amount into those for each of them

Husband keeps saying to me that we aren't in that much of a good position and that we could be in a much better position we if we made savvier business decisions like buying a buy-to-let when the prices weren't this high (neither of us have a crystal ball), or if I'd (yes I, not we) remortgaged at the start of the rates going up rather than paying that extra interest. My argument is that we haven't made any disastrous decisions that have cost us life changing amounts, yes we haven't made savvy investment decisions but we are mortgage free and can now use spare capital to do that - of course it would have been great to be in this position 10 years ago but that's the way the cookie has crumbled. I just feel blessed that we have what we have and we haven't just graduated uni now trying to get on to the housing ladder in this current economy.
I also feel like we have sacrificed enough, he rarely wants to go out for meals, barely any holidays here nor abroad. I make sure I take the kids out on day trips on weekends/school hols and anything that they want to do, but if it was up to him, we'd go nowhere except the local park. We have a Monzo joint account with the live debit card notifications and he's constantly light-heartedly commenting on any spending.

He's said this to me again tonight and I'm feeling really deflated. I earn significantly more than him but I never initiate these negative conversations about our financial situation- he's on £37k and I'm on £60k plus annual bonus which takes me to about £70k usually.

I have hated writing this because I KNOW we are fortunate and so many aren't, but he keeps saying it, it's really making me question everything.

I think next time he says it, you should agree. Suggest he get a side hustle to generate more income. Since it’s a shame he didn’t up his pension contributions when he was 20 so that both would have a decent pension to retire on, that extra money could go on investments to make up for his lack of financial planning 20 years ago

Yes, this.

At a guess, he has a mate who has a buy-to-let and constantly boasts about it. (And right now, having a buy-to-let is not particularly tempting.) Or he's worrying about the comparatively low value of his own pension against yours. Or just resents you for earning more than him.

But basically he's whining rather than doing anything about it himself. Tell him to stop whining and take a second job if he doesn't like it.

🙄

Can you explore together what it is you ultimately want out of life? What's the long game? If he has in his head wanting ro be a millionaire, owning a boat, fancy car, or i don't know what... what does middle age look like for him? Life when kids fly the nest? What age would he like to retire and what does he want to do when he does? Ask yourself the same questions and see if you have any alignment.

I am in a similar dilemma. My husband doesn't complain about finances specifically but he is a very negative person who won't spend money really, winces at every purchase, the cost of eating out, trips. I dont bother talking about holidays anymore it is just too exhausting. I can just about convince him to do uk caravan holidays. We both earn around 75k.... we aren't mortgage free but its under 1k a month so we are drowning in cash.

They sound of similar temperament, in that everything has a negative spin, fun sponge is the right word. It is causing relationship issues now. He takes most things I say to him as criticism. Is it a middle age thing we need to ride out? I am starting to dread the next 30+ years with this man who I considered to be almost perfect before we had kids. It is depressing. I think the only solution is to talk, regularly, about these specific things. It is exhausting but necessary unless you want to become emotionally estranged.

@Tungtungtungsahur you are of course in a very fortunate position financially. It sounds like you have prioritised the right things. You have a secure housing position, enough money in the bank to withstand a redundancy and money for emergencies.

Your issue (as I’m sure you are aware) is your relationship and specifically both of your relationship with money. If you don’t want to separate, you need to get some joint counselling to unravel what’s really bothering him (I’d suspect he doesn’t like being the lower earner - that’s a him issue, not a you issue). I’d also get him to draw up a spreadsheet depicting what BTL he thinks you should buy, how he thinks you’d finance it, cover the ongoing costs (letting agency fees, insurance, licences, maintenance and service charges etc) the periods when the properties are unoccupied but still need ongoing costs to be serviced, plus the impact it’d have on both of your tax positions if you didn’t set up a company specifically to hold the property. He’d also need to demonstrate that the property’s capital growth after all of these costs is better than leaving the money in investments or pensions. Obviously do your own spreadsheet because the chances are he’s been talking to the bloke down the pub or watched a TikTok or genuinely thinks that you can refurbish an entire house including a fully qualified rewire, re plumb, install new kitchens and bathrooms for £1500 just like on homes under the hammer. I also suspect he’d want to be giving up work to ‘manage’ the property…

From your posts, your issue to focus on is the impact your difference in attitude to money will have on your children. You are financially fortunate enough to be able to afford to take them to see the world and have different experiences of other cultures. It’s exciting for them and a chance for you to connect as a family. You’ll regret staying with someone who vetoes that without at least a discussion. Having a parent that dominates what the household spends the money on (despite being the lower earner) is not a healthy environment for your children to grow up in. I don’t think it’s as simple as LTB, but I do think that he needs to come to the table with a plan of action beyond whinging about what could’ve been because frankly, you sound like an absolute catch, a great mum and right now, he is not your equal. If there is love and attraction for him still there, work on the bits of your marriage that are the issue and then make a decision thereafter. You’ll at least have given it your best shot. The worst situation would be only having financial transparency as a result of a divorce negotiation.

I think your sarcasm detector is broken.

Good grief, you are doing fine. When I was 41 (40 years ago), we were living in rented accommodation, had one old car between us, and were counting our pennies.

He's insecure with how much he earns. Your position is good. It doesn't take a genius to recognise this. All the negative chat is projection about what he sees as his shortcomings.

I agree he is jealous that you earn nearly double what he does. You should point out how financially ruinous divorce is. Most unobtrusive millionaires (ie not footballers or film stars) stay married to their first wife. In his case, it would be particularly ruinous considering his apparently very modest earning potential. You'd have to split the house and give up part of your pension pot in all likelihood but it might be worth it to get rid of the miserable skinflint. If he had any sense he'd be treasuring you because, financially, his life would be very different without you.

At moments like this I just feel all warm inside that, legally, my husband has no claim whatsoever on any inheritances or my own personal investments - and he's a delight and we've been happily married for over thirty years. Before somebody starts banging on about such agreements not being legally binding, I live in a jurisdiction where they are binding.

We're about to spend a lot of money on a tropical holiday in Asia with our adult children because, being older, we've decided to do this while we are still young enough to enjoy it. My husband says there is no reason for us to be old with more than enough money which we can't enjoy. So I think there has to be a balance between planning for the future and enjoying life now. I don't think your husband has achieved that level of wisdom and may never do so. He does sound very tedious.

They get worse with age too, start moaning about politics, young people,etc. Before you know it your friend circle disappears and you are left alone with his moaning. They are also to negative to improve their own life as that would give them nothing to complain about.

He has a siege mind set. To be constantly going on about this would depress me and I’d want to send him to a therapist.

I‘m not sure what you can do about it, but if he’s like this now he’s going to continue and get worse. He’s going to be a miserable old man to be around one day not wanting to spend his pension as he’s not earning enough.

Seriously it would really make me feel really bad long term.

Stop engaging with the money conversation. Just say 'I guess we view the same data differently.'

This is about much more than the money.

He's looking at it from a glass half empty, not half full POV. You also mentioned three key points - no ISAs for the kids, only 61k in the bank, and he only started investing in his 30's. Depending on how he grew up in his family, this can also have a lot of how he treated money in his family too. You need to both sit down, see what will make him feel better for planning to help him emotionally, and not discount how he's feeling because it can always go away in an instant. Why you should also make sure that your life, disability, and long-term care insurance policies are also sufficient to cover personal disasters.

😂

This.

This is Willy waving. Whatever the problem actually is, it’s not your financial position, it’s something to do with his sense of self.

I’ve been working 25yrs, earn a decent amount (68k) and work really hard, yet haven’t even started my mortgage yet due to deciding to remain in the South East after I split with my ex. I’ve had to rent as until 5yrs ago, I was part time due to some very serious health issues. Major surgery meant things improved (not cured) and i’ve been able to get a promotion and opportunity to buy. But I decided not to buy a flat in the south east so have continued to rent and will finally move north next year when my youngest goes to uni. I have a healthy deposit, saved in the last 5yrs. My ex has paid off his mortgage as he went overseas to earn a lot more money and left me to manage the kids alone.

Am I bitter? No. I have a good life. I can go on holiday, I have 3 healthy kids, all adults now (well youngest will be in 4 months). All academically smart (youngest two applied to Oxford) and have had many benefits due to me remaining in the South East. I have a lot of friends and my health is a lot better than it was 10yrs ago. I lost one of my best friends this year and she was 57. Watching her die made me realise that there’s more to life than having millions in the bank. Yes i’ll be paying a mortgage until I retire, but i’ve got a good public sector pension, so i’ll be fine.

I’d be asking DH what he plans to do career wise to make some more money, as that’s not a huge income. I’m sure he could make a career move, or go after a promotion or two. Or maybe just zip it and realise that you’re in a great financial position and in a much more privileged position than many.

I think, since you are currently preferring not to point out you’re the one bringing in much more money, you say very very snippily just think how much worse off we’d be if we divorced because I can’t handle your endless moaning. Should’ve could’ve would’ve is driving me crazy.

Your savings are losing value unless they are in an inflation beating savings account. You should consider ISAs (share or cash) for both of you before your children. The whole point is that they are a tax shield. As your children aren’t issuing tax they are of more value to you than them. Also, your husband needs to put more into his pension if his employer will match it. 5% of £37K is unlikely to result in a healthy retirement income.

Thise things aside, you have worked hard and fine extremely well. Prioritising the roof over your own head is always more important than speculating.

Isnt there some sort of psychological phenomenon where the richer people get the more wealth they chase? Less likely to share etc.

What does he consider to be a good life? How does he want to live his life?

Tell him the truth
You are in a very good place because of you worked so hard.
You will continue to live life and work hard.
If he wants to save more, let him earn more, simples.
What on earth is the point of saving saving and never living?
Kids are only little once, and ill health and misfortune can happen, so always enjoy your life today as well as being sensible

Absolutely this.

And probably he's a twat. 🙄

Make sure you don’t pay 40% tax. Divert any money above this threshold into your pension to get the tax relief. Better than paying tax on it and then investing.

Honestly, I wouldn’t tolerate this miserableness and commenting on my spending. It’s controlling.

Next time it’s mentioned I’d say we are in a good position. I want to enjoy myself and go out for days and on holidays. You can come if you want otherwise be quiet. My outings are far less expensive than a divorce. I’d be tempted to have separate finances.

He is also clueless. Buy to lets are not a great investment and I’ll be honest he doesn’t earn enough to really make it happen. He also doesn’t have a risk-style mentality to realise he could lose a lot. He should be increasing his pension contributions.

He wants to leave and/or is seeing that his share of the finances are not as good as yours. Even if the equity was split what he would take forward from this relationship isn’t great, is it? He feels stuck.

if that’s not the case, now is the time to build that nest egg but not because he says so. I would encourage him to put more into his pension - to equalise it (I’m behind dh as I had 10yrs off work and my company contribution is rubbish but I will save my bonus). And save for the kids - cars/uni are not getting cheaper.

You’re doing great. He needs a head wobble you need a holiday and a new kitchen.

I think this is a real phenomenon.

When you have less money, a small investment doesn’t seem worth it. When you invest £10 and get £10.50 back it’s not a lot. When you invest £100000, you get £5000 back. It’s the same percentages but the amounts are so different. Therefore if I save £2000 over a course of a year, I’m more likely to go have a nice holiday with it, as I’ve worked really hard to achieve it. If I save £20000 I’m more likely to put it in a ISA tax wrapper or something.