DH and money -How can I get through to him that young children are expensive?

[imsureiusedto]

My DH is obsessed with the idea that we are on the verge of ruin. It’s putting intolerable strain on my marriage and I keep questioning if I want to be with him at all. When I raise it things improve for a while but a few weeks later revert.

We have two children who are four and one (two in midsummer.) I think it’s since younger child was born that this narrative started appearing and it’s now seeping into everything. He is constantly complaining. I work three days a week and I earn just under £2000 (I am talking in terms of take home pay.) He works full time and he earns more than double that, but I do also have a rental property which brings me around £450 so that helps. So we obviously earn well.

After a while I decided that I just wasn’t going to talk money with DH and that I’d pay for what I needed and in effect act like I was single from a financial point of view. This sort of worked for a while but this month has been an expensive one. So yesterday we spent

DDs swimming lesson (I pay for kids swimming)
DS soft play (he can’t swim at the moment due to an ear infection but I obviously didn’t want him to miss out)

Then I took them into town. My shoes broke on Friday so I was going to get a new pair. DH gave me his card; I stupidly said yes. Bought my shoes (£30) and lunch for the kids at m and s.

Then DDs dance - I paid for.

I am absolutely fed up of it. Does he think they can’t eat or that their activities should be curtailed when we earn well?

This is good advice.

DH is happy for me to work less when it means he doesn’t have to worry about childcare but not so much when he has to pay for things. So he'd like you to stay home looking after the kids, AND somehow pay for things too. This isn't good.

It's very concerning that you have no idea how much he has left after paying the monthly household expenses. It seems unlikely that someone who brings in 4k per month net is broke at the end of the month. But he won't tell you. So either you separate, have it out with him and insist on a fair and open sharing of finances, or live a miserable life with debt from when you were having his children and guilt if you want to buy your child an ice cream.

The thing is @the7Vabo if I was single I would be better off, which isn’t to say I am opting for this because I have the children to consider. But if I was single (we’d divorced) I’d just sell my rental property and buy something outright here. So no mortgage.

I haven’t had a mortgage since around 2013. I did rent once though.

I actually don't think the OP has a figure for what her husband's paying, what he's spending and what he's saving. Or do you, OP?

You could be a spendthrift, sure, but he could also be building up equity and investments and if there was a split, financially secretive and controlling people are a big issue.

What strikes me here is that you say "it's just life" and then say how you have spent on things that are absolutely UNECESSARY for life. No child NEEDS ice cream or soft play or swimming lessons, or lunch out and lots of kids don't get them because there is no money for them!

What are the actual numbers like? I guess that's the thing? Is there enough for all the bills? The food? The rent or mortgage? If there is actually plenty of money yes he sounds like a controlling man and maybe you'd be better off without him. But it all depends on the budget. If you as a family are struggling because of your "essential" unnecessary spends, then you need to re-organise your life to be more realistic!

Between you you have £6-7k coming in each month. How much is your mortgage - do you know? Is it on a long or short fix? When up for renewal? What savings do you have as a couple? If you don't know then why do you think that is? Because you haven't asked or he is secretive about finances? Maybe things aren't as good as you might expect with that size on income.

It sounds like you used to be financial equals pre kids so who paid what wasn't such an issue. But now he has the bulk of the money and you are trying to keep the kids single-handedly. It won't work because they grow and need new things constantly, they eat more, they do more activities etc.

How old are the kids? What is your work plan for when the kids are at school? Does he know that? Maybe a chat about that is a way to start a chat about finances, cost of living, how you have no money left just before payday each month (do you know what it goes on?).

I would also get super organized about shopping so laundry stuff, loo rolls etc are in the weekly shop which rather than an opportunity for him to express an opinion on your spending.

No, I do know. It’s on one of the many spreadsheets when I used to try to talk to him about it before I just gave up

I think without a joint planned budget you end up spending where the shout or immediate need is loudest rather than where in fact it might be most important.

If your children say "can I have an icecream!" How do you know if you can afford it or not?

We have £150 a month which we call "family spending" which covers trips/ random cafes/icecreams etc/cinema.
When it's gone it's gone. Or I say "yes we can do x but just so you are aware we won't then be doing much next weekend, just a walk and a flask of hot chocolate no McDs etc!"

Let's say you want a takeaway. You have some money in your account. How do you know you can afford it or whether you need to save it to buy a new blind/hedgetrimmer/loo brush whatever...

When I had young children we didn't manage spending at all well and got into debt which we are now paying off. We are really careful now because of that.

We use "pots" in a Starling account and at the beginning of each we think about what we need and want and we allocate a chunk of money to every conceivable expense coming up that month.

It is a really nice feeling to buy something and know that you can actually truly afford it. The flip side is that there are also times where you can't have that coffee or the kids can't have that ice cream. But id never go back to doing what we used to do (spend in an unplanned way and then use credit card if we had spent up and needed something urgently)

This is what I would do:

Start a joint ‘household and family’ account. Work out in detail how much your costs and budget need to be, with a contingency. Talk about what comes out of this. I would say family meals out, family days out, kids clubs, etc

Pay into that account pro rata to your take home.

Decide on an amount to each keep as personal spending: coffees out with friends / stuff you want

Decide on a budget for savings each month. Pay into joint savings pro rata.

Decide whether you need another ‘pot’, e.g towards a holiday / boiler /

He might feel more in control and less frightened. It would be fairer on you.

I would say though OP that we have a joint account for bills and we do pay money into that in proportion to earnings. So a slightly different situation to yours. It’s been a long process for my husband to understand just how expensive things are in a family.

we also have developed a shared sense of what the children need to have/do so that cost is joint now - eg we both agree swimming is a vital skill.

These are positions we have come to over time.

please do be careful op as I have always been the financially dominant one and I could pay all the bills on my own but with reducing your wages you are not which makes you more vulnerable that I was. I think you should rethink making yourself potentially more vulnerable in this situation.

all the best.

xxx

The lack of joint account, the lack of shared visibility, his fear and anxiety around money and this post from you here is the GIANT waving red flag 🚩 that you are sleepwalking into a situation that can will almost certainly veer into financial abuse.

-> the more you conceal the cost of children by carrying the burden / covering the expenses because you don’t want a fight… ->the less aware he is of the true cost of children.
->the less hours you work, the less money you have and the lower your earning power
-> you stay part time for the kids and consequently you are less likely you to progress / get promoted / be able to change jobs…
-> you already “just pay” to avoid an argument….you will find you do this more and more to avoid the Spanish Inquisition
-> his pay increases. He doesn’t tell you and you have no visibility. He stashes money in secret saving account because you are “shit with money”

roll on 4 years and you get your haircut once a year and either don’t buy new clothes or buy them 2nd hand so the kids get the trainers they want at Christmas while listening to your DH talk about how he wishes HE could be a lady of leisure like you but SOMEONE in this house has to work…

you owe it to your marriage to address this so you don’t sleepwalk into a situation no one is happy in…

You need to leave this man sorry - do you really want to live like this for the rest of your life? You deserve better.

OK, as you have property of your own then I guess it's ultimatum time. Full disclosure of finances and a joint account for the bills and the children/or each go your own way.

I say that as someone who is married and has a rental of my own, but DH and I do have a joint account for bills. And he never criticises what I spend. He knows he's lucky I adult for him!

If I was responsible for the mortgage and all essential bills on my own and my partner was spending £1-1.5k per month on lots of unnecessary spending I would be very upset and frustrated. Frittering money is a big trigger for me, I spend and save consciously. Maybe he's the same?

How would you be better off though? You don’t pay towards the mortgage now.
You would receive child maintenance but you would have all the bills on top that you don’t currently cover. A comment like you would be financially better off single strikes me that you don’t actually know the running costs of housing the family.

I think the problem is a lack of transparency on both sides.

He nit picks on random little things because he doesn’t know what they costs, but equally those little things add up to over a grand a month.
You don’t seem to have any interest in the bigs house bills, you can’t say I pay X percentage and I know husband pays for Y because the bills total Z.

You view it as him moaning about little costs, he sees you as bleeding a trail of ice cream and lunches out when you leave the house while leaving him to worry about all the bills. Neither of you are valuing the contribution that the other is making.

Both of you need to actually meet in the middle and create a plan going forward.

However, although their house and bills are no doubt higher than if they were childfree/less, it doesn't sit well that his children are otherwise free? Apparently?

@Completelyjo

I wouldn’t be paying a mortgage and I would either not have the children 50% of the time or I would have substantial child maintenance.

I am not planning to leave. But yes, I would be much better off if I did.

@Applesonthelawn sounds like the husband would not provide the receipts though?

Im going to be blunt. Personally I find your financial relationship very dysfunctional. How come did you got yourself into debt whilst on maternity leave? What happens if you lose your job?

We have always had separate finances and it's worked fine for 35 years but my DH isn't a dick and we have the same approach to money. I didn't have debt arising from mat leave because firstly I saved up for it and secondly, in those days I was back at work when the baby was 4 months, becoming a SAHM when he was 16 months.

@imsureiusedto you refer to being wet and miserable when it's raining. Why? Can't you kagoule and welly up? My children fondly recall a late afternoon after days of drenching rain, going out and collecting hundreds of conkers, similarly making sand pies and castles in the rain. Also why are you so pissy over being advised to clamp down on gratuitous ice creams. I can imagine my DH might have been a bit pissy if the monthly account had included a dozen ice-creams from the van when the dc could have had ice-cream at home, with sprinkles, for less than a quarter of the price. Do you not teach your dc the value of money as a life skill.

I agree with this. You've got £1650 per month for activities and days out etc but needed to borrow money for your haircut? If you aren't managing your money with such a high disposable income then it sounds like you do fritter money away.

@imsureiusedto so how much does he have spare after rent , bills and food? How much personal spending money is there just for him? What's being saved?

You don't have to tell us this but only you know if the answer sits well with you.

I was more commenting on your current situation.

I think there is something in the above. You seem hyper focused on his comments about ice cream as if he somehow doesn’t pay for his kids, while completely over looking that he pays the mortgage & bills except childcare.

But you don’t pay the mortgage now, you would be paying for everything you are now plus bills.
“Substantial” is doubtful. Maintenance on a 4k a month income isn’t going to be so high that it totally covers council tax, repairs, utilities, insurance and everything else that your DH current covers.

I’m not remotely suggesting this to say you should stay with him, I’m just saying flippant things like claiming you would be financially better suggest you don’t actually full understand your household bills.

No, you need to pool your finances like an actual proper family, or separate and have proper finance and childcare arrangements in place.

I agree.
It’s a total hyperbole to claim this whole thing is over one soft play entry and an ice cream every now and then. Spending to the end of nearly 2.5k while the main bill from that is £800 childcare is a lot! Particularly spending that much and then crying poverty over broken shoes and a haircut.