DH and money -How can I get through to him that young children are expensive?

[imsureiusedto]

My DH is obsessed with the idea that we are on the verge of ruin. It’s putting intolerable strain on my marriage and I keep questioning if I want to be with him at all. When I raise it things improve for a while but a few weeks later revert.

We have two children who are four and one (two in midsummer.) I think it’s since younger child was born that this narrative started appearing and it’s now seeping into everything. He is constantly complaining. I work three days a week and I earn just under £2000 (I am talking in terms of take home pay.) He works full time and he earns more than double that, but I do also have a rental property which brings me around £450 so that helps. So we obviously earn well.

After a while I decided that I just wasn’t going to talk money with DH and that I’d pay for what I needed and in effect act like I was single from a financial point of view. This sort of worked for a while but this month has been an expensive one. So yesterday we spent

DDs swimming lesson (I pay for kids swimming)
DS soft play (he can’t swim at the moment due to an ear infection but I obviously didn’t want him to miss out)

Then I took them into town. My shoes broke on Friday so I was going to get a new pair. DH gave me his card; I stupidly said yes. Bought my shoes (£30) and lunch for the kids at m and s.

Then DDs dance - I paid for.

I am absolutely fed up of it. Does he think they can’t eat or that their activities should be curtailed when we earn well?

I think this changes things. He is paying for the mortgage/rent all the utilities and the food etc etc? How much of your salary is eaten up by the childcare costs? My guess is nearly all of it? SO you are basically living on the rent? Is he topping up your pension as you have dropped your hours to look after the DC?

I think that the two of you need to sit down and do a budget and then contribute to a joint account to cover those costs in proportion to your incomes. The budget should include DC's activities. No sane and responsible adult should begrudge the cost of swimming lessons if they can afford them as it could be life saving. Ballet and soft play are nice to haves. If DH doesn't want to pay for children's activities then suggest that he takes them out and entertains them for free instead. Where was he yesterday when you took the children out for most of the day? Indulging in some child free time or doing the DIY and housework? Makes a difference IMO.... If he objects to paying for washing powder ask him to take on the laundry for a couple of months to demonstrate to you how he can eke it out when you can't - might be a wake up call for him. If he complains about the foodshop ask him to take over the meal planning and shopping.

I think you need a financial review of who is paying for what, put it all on a spreadsheet. You need to know it's proportional to income.

@RosesAndHellebores indeed but in London while the costs of living will undoubtedly be very high you’ll also have had more free and cheap entertainment than where we live. I mean yes, sue me, I buy my children ice creams if we’re out and see a van, if the weather is shit we’ll do soft play rather than be wet and miserable. And for the most part I do pay for it myself. I just really regret changing my hair appointment, dumb thing to do.

Agree with this.

OP, you appear to be sleepwalking into financial ruin yourself. You've got maternity leave debt to pay off (how maternity leave wasn't a joint cost for the pair of you boggles the mind...) yet you're footing the bill for childcare which should definitely be a joint cost.

What do you get out of keeping finances strictly separate in this way? I can understand not wanting to pool everything but it makes no sense that you don't even have a joint account for household expenses.

Surely but they logic he would bill her for half of their living costs?

@imsureiusedto but changing your hair appointment is not the issue. If I'd needed to take money from savings then replace it for an appointment that had been moved forward my husband would've said nothing. It's a non event.

You're not actually listening to anyone's advice about your finances.

You're fixating on a haircut and ice cream.

The point is your financial set-up is completely inadequate for a married couple with children.

The fact you had to fund your maternity leave whilst caring for his children is financial abuse.

It seems like you don't have any say or transparency over savings either.

Meanwhile his pension pot will be lovely whilst your isn't in comparison. You are financially vulnerable and have given in for a quiet life.

It wasn't a dumb thing to do. What is dumb is thinking you have to pay for all the children's costs. Paying back debts from maternity, I guess he didn't support you then and you had to dip into savings to manage.

Having recently divorced my h and seen how he's been financially, how long I've managed on little and how much we actually had, I'd say don't stay quiet any longer. Grown up conversation with expectations, compromise and consequences.

It isn’t my choice crushed sorry … I thought that was apparent. I guess though to answer the question we both can spend on what we want without interference from the other.

At any rate, I am just very tired of it. That’s the issue really, not money. It just grinds you down.

Agree with this. How much is in your respective pensions OP?

One thing I’m not is financially vulnerable. Pension is fine (and I’ll probably be dead before I claim it anyway - not facetious; not a long lived family on my side) I own a property outright and I do work. I’m not sure what else I can realistically do to be honest.

Debt from maternity leave? Jesus christ just divorce the fucker, take your share of equity and live your life free of him.

What does this relationship bring you

It's already been said but I'll say it again.
Spreadsheet.
It's the only way.
Everything he spends, he puts a receipt in a drawer. Every little thing that is for the household. Same for you.
Once a month you add how much each spent, calculate the fair share (1/3 you 2/3s him or whatever you agree), and transfer a balancing amount to the other person.
Every time he asks what it's all spent on, out comes the spreadsheet and you can tell him. Line by line. Eventually he'll get comfortable and stop asking.
I can tell you what my household has spent (on every item) back to 2002 and have never had a single cross word about money.
Communication and record keeping are the key.

Sadly he is a misogynist through and through he sees the DC as your hobby & job.

How is he at pulling his weight when he isn't working/doing his hobbies. How is his contribution to running the house etc?

I'm aghast that you have children and your finances are apparently totally separate. No wonder there's terrible communication between you. Keeping one's own money is important, but having a joint account as well with an agreed amount that you both pay into is incredibly helpful.

This man is treating you like a child, not an adult spouse.

He has trained you to never ask for or discuss money by making it awkward.

He has a problem.

Therefore you have a problem.

I mean, both my DH and DDad are awkward sods about money in different ways but they don't begrudge everyday expenditure!

You said in your original post that you sometimes choose to live like you are single.

But your husband pays all the mortgage & bills. No single person has their mortgage & bills paid.

Is your husband frustrated with how much is his contributing? Have you discussed that?

Also to answer your OP.

He knows.

He doesn't care.

He probably sees the kids as your hobby. A surprising number of men think that way.

My first husband was always questioning my spending. I realised during the divorce that he was the problem spender and constantly tried to curtai my spending in order to cover his issues. Something to think about.

We’ve had a spreadsheet but it literally makes no difference so it might be best if people did stop saying it.

I posted in frustration. As I’ve said the marriage may well end; I hope not but it may. As we just cannot seem to agree or to communicate on this issue, it becomes all my fault, I feel bad and then that’s it.

Children will get a lot more expensive than that! The amount needed for clothes & shoes (constantly outgrown), toys, gadgets, subscriptions, food, travel, tickets won't get less until they move out. Once they start school they will also start asking for things their friends have instead being unaware of what they're wearing or playing with. Hotel costs, plane tickets or restaurant bills are insane once you factor in two slightly older children. Even one extra child adds a noticeable dent into the budget compared to just planning a trip for 2.

If he's already moaning about costs, he needs to be mentally prepared for what's to come. Or you need to set up a better system for splitting the costs.

Have you ever said something like ´Look, im not your employee submitting an expense account -Im your wife and this is what things cost.´
And just drop that rope - no further discussion or justification needed.

I think other posters are right to ask - do you know how much is being paid for the mortgage, cars, council tax and so on? Did you buy the house as a married couple? were you involved in decision making, what about pensions, savings, investments and so on

He cant have it both ways - either your are a team or not. But I suspect it suits him to keep you in the dark/questioning your own competence and never having access to full information, treading on eggshells because he wont discuss finances, unable to change things and seek fairness because 'he wont go for it', painted as spendthrift/incompetent/profligate by him when a huge contribution to any financial issues you might be having is his rules/lack of sharing of information and lack of mutual support

I hate to say this OP but to an outside observer your relationship seems to be controlling and financially abusive and I suspect like many other women you are taking all the hits

Having read some of the updates, I'm going to have to agree with PP: you should walk away from this marriage because it clearly isn't serving you. You have the means to go it alone and CMS will mean your DH finally pays his fair share for his children.