DH and money -How can I get through to him that young children are expensive?

[imsureiusedto]

My DH is obsessed with the idea that we are on the verge of ruin. It’s putting intolerable strain on my marriage and I keep questioning if I want to be with him at all. When I raise it things improve for a while but a few weeks later revert.

We have two children who are four and one (two in midsummer.) I think it’s since younger child was born that this narrative started appearing and it’s now seeping into everything. He is constantly complaining. I work three days a week and I earn just under £2000 (I am talking in terms of take home pay.) He works full time and he earns more than double that, but I do also have a rental property which brings me around £450 so that helps. So we obviously earn well.

After a while I decided that I just wasn’t going to talk money with DH and that I’d pay for what I needed and in effect act like I was single from a financial point of view. This sort of worked for a while but this month has been an expensive one. So yesterday we spent

DDs swimming lesson (I pay for kids swimming)
DS soft play (he can’t swim at the moment due to an ear infection but I obviously didn’t want him to miss out)

Then I took them into town. My shoes broke on Friday so I was going to get a new pair. DH gave me his card; I stupidly said yes. Bought my shoes (£30) and lunch for the kids at m and s.

Then DDs dance - I paid for.

I am absolutely fed up of it. Does he think they can’t eat or that their activities should be curtailed when we earn well?

but it isn’t. At the moment the majority of that goes on trying to repay some debts, not that I ever do, it’s just circular. I think you’re underestimating the cost of childcare and the cost of food and so on massively to be honest. I’m not suggesting I’m living in poverty but I certainly don’t have over a thousand pounds every month.

How does the majority of your £1650 after childcare go on debts from maternity leave though? You’ve already posted several times your childcare is £800 which leaves 1650 now.
On had £450 a month from your rental income plus enhanced teacher maternity pay.
How much could you have possibly have gone into so much debt to finance day to day spending after bills on mat leave that it’s still your biggest outgoing?

Non of it really makes sense. You don’t need to spent anywhere near 1650 a month on this list
“Swimming
Classes
Food
Cleaning products
clothes
shoes
my hair / waxing / any social activities
fuel
parking”

Plus how is your DH making all these comments when you don’t talk about money and use separate accounts?

@imsureiusedto Out of curiosity, is he older than you? That tends to make this dynamic even harder to navigate.

I’m sorry people are being obnoxious and deliberately obtuse (or perhaps genuinely a bit dim). I second the suggestion to simply report the ones that are attacking or name-calling.

It’s good that you have the means to leave if necessary; unfortunately I suspect you’ll need to, especially as the children get old enough to start picking up on things. If he starts saying things to them about how expensive they are, how they don’t need things, calling them “greedy” or “grabby” for having normal childish wants then I’d urge you to pull the plug. That kind of messaging sticks with children for a lifetime.

Can you do the 0% credit card purchasing to get on top of your debt or is it already interest free?

So in theory everything is joint and together yet you aren’t in anyway working together financially or in any way

so he wants you to drop hours - presumably becuase it is easier for him yet still pay for what you do

what unpleasant things does he say

and how does he live in terms of buying things for himself?

the thing is I do find it weird when married and legally joint in terms of financial assets etc not show that in day to day life. Why get married if you are going to merge assets all the time

@imsureiusedto why does he think this ? If he's clearly only paying mortgage plus household bills and 'some' of the food bill -it sounds to me like e like he has around £1800 a month spare ( before car payment presuming he has one) - it's his choice if he has a really expensive car payment -

I don't think your earnings are enough to cover off what you have listed , especially if paying off maternity debts - why do you have those by the way - was it that this right arse expected you to cover off 'as normal'. Without any call on him??

Nikkah or humanist spring to mind. It's good that you are legally married at least. Your financial situation is far from normal however, I wouldn't blame you for feeling frustrated. But more worrying is I don't think you don't feel you can talk openly to your DH about this?

I really don’t want counselling. I don’t particularly like the model and I know he wouldn’t go for it.

I hear that you don’t fancy it (fine - no one really does, tbh!), and he won’t go for it (again, no one really wants to think they need it) but just to gently push back on the ‘don’t like the model’ aspect - what are you imagining? That the counsellor will dig into your past and try to link it to trauma or something?

For counselling based specifically on a single issue, like finances, it’s really more like just having an impartial third party to mediate and lead a discussion, giving you both the chance to speak and be heard, and perhaps offering a roadmap of things to try to get past an impasse.

No one really wants to do it, but it’s an effective tool to better communication. And if it results in either a better atmosphere and understanding around money, or the clarity that things will never change, then it’s money well spent.

@Completelyjo to be honest I’m losing patience here. You’ve been on the thread since I started it what, five hours ago? If it still makes no sense I can’t help you. Read it. Then if it makes no sense, leave it.

@Tiswa honestly ‘weird’ makes me feel like I’m fourteen years old and wearing crap trainers my mum bought me. I don’t care if you think it’s weird or not. I didn’t get married because I thought I wanted to pool finances. I got married for legal protection (for both parties). As I have said before, a fool I am not. I don’t really care if that’s weird or not.

@Crikeyalmighty on the last ‘assessment’ of incomings and outgoings it was £4625. This included childcare of nearly £1000 which I pay for, plus some other expenses covered by me (swimming) and some expenses that have since been paid off or reduced. So he should have enough.

Gosh op

you are literally skint I feel sorry for you as you are basically surviving on the same as someone on benefits if you take off your childcare

is he expecting you to divert all the childcare money to the mortgage once you no longer pay it?

op this set up is very unfair on you - he is underestimating the cost of living and the price of clothes/clubs etc

You know you would be better off financially without him

You would get help with childcare fees and you’d get child benefit if you don’t already

you would get maintenance and council tax discount amongst other things

you’ve said you would like to stay with him though - you should ask him for a rethink on the division of money as your current scenario only benefits him!

I mean you are working to literally cover the outgoings with nothing left over whilst he is sitting financially comfortable

@NoSquirrels no. Honestly this might not reflect on me well but I know people who have trained as counsellors and they aren’t people I would personally think had any great insight beyond anything I have myself. At this risk of repeating myself I’m really not a fool, which isn’t to say I think I am amazing or anything, but I am pragmatic and I am sensible. I also know that insisting we spend what, £70 a time for marriage counselling when all our bickers are about money isn’t wise. It just isn’t, and all the insistence that it is doesn’t change that. We’d be better putting that towards some time together without kids if we had it to spare but we don’t.

@imsureiusedto but you are not using that protection - the debt for example is martial debt (given it occurred during the maternity leave) so would be legally seen as such. If there were assets to pay it off it would be done so before dividing in a divorce.

No, I’m not. I don’t want or need to at the moment. I will need to if DH dies (hopefully not) and he will need it if I die (definitely hopefully not) or if we divorce (again, hopefully not) but we can’t completely guarantee any of those things. In day to day life I don’t need to. Whether or not I should be is by the by; it isn’t up to me and that’s that, so arguing about it on here is futile.

And no - sorry, we’re the same age.

It’s only England and Wales that don’t have legal humanist weddings.

@Quitelikeit you are literally skint I feel sorry for you as you are basically surviving on the same as someone on benefits if you take off your childcare
Oh come on, hardly. OP doesn’t pay towards most of the bills! You can’t be serious that she’s skint covering food and child bits on over a grand and a half!

So basically yiu let him have power becuase if you don’t and push back he says nasty unpleasant things to you

I don’t think it’s any reflection on you or your own intelligence or insight - it’s more that a) a paid service conveys authority (regardless of whether they have any greater insight the mere fact of paying the £70 an hour makes a bloke sit up and listen) and b) you need an outsider because your husband doesn’t listen to you!

But fair enough, it’s a non starter for you.

So back to forcing the conversation yourself, repeatedly if necessary (unpleasant) until things improve, or crossing your fingers in hope it improves with time (passive but sometimes that’s an active choice too - just make sure you are actively choosing to ignore it because when you look back you don’t want to feel you slept walked into anything.)

Hope things get better.

on the last ‘assessment’ of incomings and outgoings it was £4625. This included childcare of nearly £1000 which I pay for, plus some other expenses covered by me (swimming) and some expenses that have since been paid off or reduced. So he should have enough.

Is the childcare 800 or 1000? You keep changing things. What else is included on that list that you cover?
It hardly looks like he’s rolling in it covering around £3,500 of outgoings on a 4k take home.

Your issues are about finances and it doesn’t look like you actually have huge amounts spare after all your commitments, but you won’t talk about finances then I’m not sure what you expect to change?

If the DH isn't "rolling in it" he needs to look at his expenditure on his flashy car and expensive hobbies. He's a father now and he also needs to adjust his spending to reflect COL & there are 2 DC with needs and costs.

Because it isn’t exactly the same amount every month @Completelyjo . I average it at around £850 though.

No one has said he’s rolling in it. That’s literally the title of the thread. Small children are expensive. You either need to pay someone else to look after them while you work or you need to drop hours yourself to look after them and lose money or a combination of both.

I would gladly talk about finances but when we try I just end up being criticised so I don’t.

@NoSquirrels I think the main thing I’ve taken away is that I’m not alone. It has sort of been lost in the bickering on the thread but many posters have said things like ‘yes, my DH does that too, I deal with it by’ and it does help.

Things are tough because DH earns close to (but not quite) £100,000. In a couple of weeks he will get a bonus of around £12,000 which he will have to put most of into a pension pot because otherwise he’ll be over the £100,000 he needs to stay under for childcare. I’ve never had that much money but I can imagine that stings like a … jellyfish (don’t like the original saying) and is frustrating. But it’s also not forever and I keep repeating myself on this. In 2027, both children will be in school, no childcare costs, I will work more, he can keep his bonus, things will not be as they are now. But it’s horrible feeling like you and your children are this massive drain and maybe that’s not what he means to make me feel but he does.

Then I’m glad it’s been a bit useful.

If you can’t change the way the finances are arranged (but I would absolutely urge you to persevere!) then perhaps at least you can harden your shell towards taking any of it to heart? I mean- poor dear, having to put £12K in his pension, like a grown-up. He’s still £12K better off - and £12K better off than you in particular, as it’s going straight in his pension. He’s not exactly on Skid Row, so just ignore him moaning, or deflect with humour. Just because he moans doesn’t mean you have to either agree or defend yourself to him.

To be totally fair I’d be gutted as well - but quite!

Hold on he earns so much and he worries about being bankrupt and has you in debt and won’t even contemplate anything joint and says unpleasant things to you and considers his children to be a drain

I’m doing the same with my bonus. To complain about it would be rather ‘my diamond shoes are too tight’.

He sounds unpleasant OP. I’m amazed you can still be attracted to him. I’d send him out to Tesco’s.