Found out Husband has hidden debt from me (for the 2nd time).

[MummaSomething]

Please be kind - Not sure if I should be turning to strangers around this but I just need outsider opinions I guess…

I have a very loving husband and a wonderful father to our two children - I will do this very long story short but apologies if it does go on.

I found out this weekend, from opening his post after suspecting (from past doings) something was off and I was correct. Multiple loan lenders with vast amounts borrowed.

I’d found a mail 2 weeks prior to this & questioned him but the amount was very small and he stated ‘that doesn’t sound right, will look when home but I don’t have anything outstanding’… I don’t know why but I just wanted to believe him.
Now, sadly he’s done this before when I was pregnant with our first child he ended up confessing that he’d gotten us into 30k worth of debt & promised whole heartedly this would never happen again. I was distraught but so was he and it was agonising seeing him in such pain and I had saved a vast amount for my maternity and ended up paying most of it off for him (I have a well paid job/career and earn over double what my husband does but since this incident, we joint up our salary’s and I managed all finances and he’d cut up his credit cards).

It’s gambling but also, in some cases the first time attempting to keep up with myself financially… Not that he has ever needed to. We are married and we throw it in one pot, have a very comfortable life, though I feel this is somewhat a battle that some men have when their other halves earn more.

Anyway, feel like I’m jumping all over but he has now 5years later got us into a further near on 50k of debt, gambling and then attempting to keep up with card payments, credit cards he reactivated(!!!) and I am heartbroken.
I love this man and he loves me & our family dearly but I can’t help but feel so very angry. Not to mention I have found out just 4 months after giving birth to our 2nd beautiful lil one - The 2nd maternity leave I have to be burdened with unnecessary debt and quite frankly deceit as this time he had no intention of me finding out as he had got a debt plan in place, covering part of it and was terrified I’d divorce him.
At this stage of our family life we live up to our means, we’d moved and our mortgage has gone up an insane amount, along with the cost of living and my savings this time would cover some but I need this money to keep us afloat whilst I’m out of work, given how costly our outgoings are now in comparison to where we were before. I’m just in total shock.

How do I move forward here and how do I ensure this does not sink us in some way, financially or emotionally, as currently I know I am going to sit with SO much resentment. He needs help and I am trying to lead with this but… Man, I feel so weak with all this.

Oh lovely, firstly fudging hell!
not what you want to handling at all on mat leave.
I think we need a step back and break it down, this is an addiction. Regardless of his reasons. (Which fyi I cant help but think theres a little of him passing blame “keeping up with you”) he needs to seek help for this addiction, find the route cause and treat it or you’ll be in a never ending game here.

secondly, your knee jerk reaction as his partner is to fix it, but what consequences did he really suffer with last time? If you’re fixing it to ensure your finances are impacted fine, but I think you need to rethink your finances here and how much he has access to. He cant expect you to continue to swoop and save the day, this is his mistake here.

Finally, I would look to implement some control until he’s faced his demons and earnt your trust back. Have him set up ‘basic’ bank account. I dont mean basic as in bog standard, I mean literally call the bank and request basic accounts, these are not lending ability on them including overdrafts. Are usually for people with some form of money issues so may raise a flag if he then attempted to get lending with that provider. I believe you can also set up alerts with a credit agency to recieve notifications of applications and searches. This would be In part to keep your mind at ease so you’ll see if he’s opened anything up.

this is not only a betrayal in lying and deceiving you, but its become a pattern of behaviour and risks the life you have built for you and your family. He cannot destroy what youve built because he isnt the breadwinner. Before you can move past it he needs to seek help. He’s broken your trust.

remember this isnt your fault, he is literally throwing money down the drain. Money that is for you and your kids. Its a total lack of respect and I really do feel for you.

good luck ♥️

@Whatsgoingon102 Can I just firstly thank you so much for all the useful advise you have given and not just assuming the worst.

He truly is a wonderful person but has just gotten into the grips of a vice and it’s no excuse, he knows this.
You are right there was no consequence, other than my absolute disappointment last time and he has said that he wants to sort this on his own entirely and Immediately I had asked for all paper work on the debt management to be sent to me and all looks as consolidated as can be without effecting anything to do with joint assets. He has taken action but obviously there is much more work to be done and therapy too is being booked.

i had no idea basic accounts existed, so thank you for that as i will absolutely be advising this is the approach he takes, given the reactivated CC’s.

i never want money to be the reason for failure, as it is ‘just money’ ridiculous sentiment that sounds out loud but i also understand if gone too far can really drag you with them and I just want to protect my family and of course pull him away from any further relapses of judgement.

I should also say, he’s put a block on all gambling sites and linked to a number of credentials, meaning he can not sign up under multiple numbers/addresses and he flags in stores systems and such. I know there could be other ways around but I am going to be taking full rein (despite thinking I already had 🙄) of all finances and financial decisions. I will look into alerts and such to maximise any security I can.

Feels like madness having to do it but I doubt I will ever understand, if I don’t personally struggle with those tendencies - As much as I truly want to understand it.

He is ill and needs to seek help.

I've never shared finances and don't know the ins and outs of how it works but I'd want to untangle myself financially can you divorce and live nearby separately for financial reasons but continue the relationship so any further debt is his alone? Otherwise he is going to continue totting up £10000s in debt, and if he had an accident would they become your problem?

GAMSTOP! You have to tell him that if he doesn't register, it will be over. This will ruin a relationship whether that person is the most loveliest person or not. He has no control.

GAMSTOP allows you to ban yourself from all UK gambling sites. You have to tell him that whilst he might be able to gamble in countries that aren't registered with GANSTOP, the chances of him receiving any winnings are slim to none.

I know that this is extremely intrusive, but get a credit report in his name, with permission, so you can monitor what he is doing.

I'm speaking gambler's perspective here. My DH hasn't given up on me, but I do need to take responsibility and I should be monitored.

All the best to you both.

Mumma how much of the addressing his gambling addiction and his debt has been driven by him? Are you certain he ever actually stopped the first time?

I get that he loves you and your children. That you love him.

But the disease model of addiction )”fallen into the grips of a vice”) is only one way of looking at addiction and it’s not a comprehensive one. Addiction is also choice. Difficult choices (because the bit of the disease model about the change to reward centres is still true even when you’re looking at things from a different perspective) and overcoming addiction means making the choice not to indulge thousands of times. But it’s still choice. As is failing to tell you about the hole he was digging for you all. He hasn’t been making the choices he should. He hasn’t been taking the steps needed to help himself make the choices he should.

These are not the actions of a good husband or wonderful father. It doesn’t mean he doesn’t love you at all. But it does show that he is, essentially, quite selfish. He has not prioritised you or the DC the way a good husband and father does.

He prioritised his gambling, and when he realised he had fallen into uncontrollable debt again, he didn’t tell you because he didn’t want you to divorce him. That’s was a selfish reason where he, again, put his desires ahead of your and DCs’ needs.

You cannot change him. He needs to change. You can protect yourself and DC f financially (most effectively by divorcing him, disentangling your finances, and ensuring you do need his earning capacity for a decent life) even while you remain in a relationship with him. But emotionally you will remain vulnerable. You do not have to stay in a relationship with him. Even if he loves you and the DC. Even if you love him. He has done this to you twice. It’s a lot to bear and there is no way to ensure he won’t do the same again.

Separate all your finances, have everything you earn & get paid into your own bank account. Does he pay towards the mortgage & bills etc? Have a separate account for them with no borrowing facility & insist he pays his share in every month without fail, you pay your share. If he fails to pay his share, then game over. He needs to take full responsibility for what he has done, you don't bail him out at all, let him hit rock bottom, it is the only way he will sort himself out. I would also get a copy of your own credit account to check he hasn't borrowed anything in your name, also, has he borrowed any of the money he owes giving your home as security? If he has then if it was me, I would have to end the marriage however good husband & father you think he is if he could risk you losing your home he really isn't.

I would divorce and live in the same house for now. Take him off the mortgage. You will lose your home in the future. This is worse than cheating with another woman. Love is never enough alone to stay with someone. I can't see him stopping the gambling- first time, yeah OK, you might get a pass, but second time, with 2 children- nah, disgusting behaviour.

Thanks all, I appreciate all input here I really do.. Though, I will clear this now for any future commenters that I will not be divorcing him (on this occasion). I understand it’s an additional financial protection and please understand, I am no mug here.
There are two sides to every marriage and he’s been a rock for me on previous occasions and I’m not the easiest person to be married to, believe me. We’ve been together 15 yrs and I am willing to help him with actual change this time around, he has stood strong for me in the past (completely different grounds entirely, much tamer in comparison and nothing financial/infidelity/drug wise) but I have been clear that if this ever does happen again, it WILL be the straw that’s broken the camels back.

@ILoveToCleanSaidNooneEver thank you for commenting and interesting to hear your perspective - It is indeed GAMSTOP he’s done it with.
im glad your DH is still there for you - Do you feel it’s something you’d continue to put him through, truthfully? Or is it an addiction with so much grip, that you don’t trust yourself even if the risk is great and you could lose it all? (Apologies for being so forward, I would just like to understand how his mind may be working)

@RawBloomers I do believe he stopped as he stated this time, it restarted at a certain point which was believable as I remember his demeanour change at the time, so it adds up.

i entirely agree with you, he’s been selfish beyond measure.
Though, he is entirely ashamed and again I’ve never seen him breakdown like I’ve seen him the two times this has happened, he is a broken man. All his doing, absolutely but given his character… It hurts to see him this way and I do want to attempt without sorting this FOR him, to help him properly this time and give him this final chance.

Hi @Nat6999, we have joint of which I run and all bills go into this.
I have a separate personal account of which my money gets paid into and he does not have access, I pay all bills and set aside savings (he has 0 access to our savings pot).
His pay gets paid into his account and he would move over to joint but this all enabled him to act as if things were fine but all hell was breaking loose in his accounts that I couldn’t see - This is what we’ll be changing, I will be having FULL visibility.

@Adventurerno24 i agree it’s bad… & there is risk this could impact further but all efforts to consolidate debt has been made specifically so that it has not impacted any asset I have my name to. I realise this could happen but it hasn’t yet and I have to trust to some degree if I am continuing in this, that it would be an absolute low for him to do this and that we are enough to stop him going this far.
I have to believe that and I do absolutely understand the risk here, I really do.

Would also appreciate any advise from anyone who has been in this position and successfully navigated a resolve with their partner?

Anyone, just like a commenter above who may be the person whom has got them/their family into this situation and can give me some insight into their ways of thinking, if this is genuinely fixable and that it won’t in fact happen again and if so, what steps are you taking to ensure it.

TIA!

@MummaSomething it is an addiction with so much grip, and I continuously self-exclude for 5 years every time my period is up, because I don't trust myself. I don't know how it has such a grip over me. I play the lotto and buy the odd scratch card intermittently, and I would never gamble on anything like football and certainly never the horses or dog racing. It's the online slots that got me.

I don't wish to hurt my DH financially/emotionally again, and I do have too much to lose so I always have that in my thoughts.

OP, please don't feel this is your problem to fix for the sake of your family. To put it bluntly, he's lied and deceived you. You've helped him pay off debts once. It should never have happened again. Here you are saying how much you love and support him, where is the same consideration from him of putting his family first. Yes it's an addiction but he's in denial. From reading your post, I get the impression you feel you have to sort this mess out because you can, you love him and you want it not to affect your kids. How many more times are you prepared to pay off his debts. I would draw a line under this, no money from me, let him navigate a way out of this, otherwise you'll be bailing him out again. Any support I give would be non monetary, he would have to be totally transparent with his finances. I would never allow my DH to jeopardise my family again.

@ILoveToCleanSaidNooneEver
Thank you for your honesty - It’s real value to try and understand it from your perspective. I know everyone is different but just to build a little context is helpful.

Any other advise or insights you have, if lease do share if you think it helpful for me to know, no matter how raw and to the point it is.

Hi @Harvestfestivalknickers, I certainly have felt that, in terms of his consideration when putting us in this situation… I totally agree, I’m not seeing any of this through rose tinted glasses or wanting to be a saviour but simply, I don’t want to suffer any further myself and have to give up on my marriage before I have actually had a chance to help/see him start to tackle the addiction. I hadn’t taken that part seriously the first time and I know it’s not my problem or fault… I should have been able to trust him at face value and he has totally broken that.

It’s just a part of me, aside from loving him of course feels like why should I go through even more heartbreak (at this moment) because of his actions and create a whirlwind for my children without giving it a chance. I owe that to myself and my children and I know that’s a risk but even the hint at any further debt and that is where I can no longer assist and I will then have to make difficult decisions. I hope that makes sense?

I know it may seem I’m being weak or a walk over but I can promise you in the context of all this, I’m not and if you could see how I’m handling this with my husband, I am certainly not bowing down to his emotions… He’s not currently or going to have an easy ride here at all. He’s got a hell of a lot of trust to build.

I will not be giving him a penny. That will not be happening again.

I know that you asked for experiences of navigating this behaviour successfully but I can't give you that.

I wish that I had left DH when I found out for the first (or second) time about his secret debt. It is a habit that will continue in my experience. You will never be able to trust him and it is very easy to secretly acquire credit no matter what steps you take to prevent/monitor it. No matter what financial mess they cause they will bury their head in the sand and you won't find out until the debt is unmanageable.

If I'd been brave and left 10 years ago I could have afforded my own house. Now I can't and we have no savings and I can't afford to move out and get a divorce.

@ElBanana Thank you for the honesty. I’m so sorry to hear you’ve had to deal with all of this and you’ve had ongoing impact 😞
Can I ask specifically what stopped you from leaving? What were the patterns and what was his reactions each time you found out?

Are you still in your relationship? As it sounds as though from your last sentence that you may be.

I believed he would change and we had very small children so wasn't brave enough to leave. I suppose I thought it was best for the kids if we stayed together.
My DH has a spending addiction - not gambling. He buys expensive stuff all the time for his numerous sport related hobbies (he's addicted to those as well) and won't face up to his overspending. He has numerous credit cards that I can't keep up with. He's a fairly high earner but we have no savings. Thankfully I have always refused to extend the mortgage for any reason so that should be paid off in a few years.
The first time I found out by opening a credit card statement because it wasn't a credit card company that we had been using (or so I thought). He was embarrassed, said things had got out of control and he had just avoided it and hoped it would go away. We had to get a large loan to pay it off.
The second time was when he tried to pay for something at Christmas and his card was declined. I knew from his face that it had happened again. He'd increased his credit limit massively without me knowing.
Since then it's been a periodic battle to see what's being spent and on what card. It's very stressful.
I just wish I'd bitten the bullet and left the second time that it happened because like with all addictions, it's something that will always be there.

I can see that you don't want to walk away for the sake of the children - you do not want to upset their lives. That's admirable and I would probably do the same the first time I bailed him out. As this is a repeat incident, where is he showing that same desire to put the family first?
You've got to show him this is the last chance saloon. That money he blew could have been your DCs uni funds, first cars or flat deposits. He is NOT in the same mindset as you, he is addicted to gambling. Bare that in mind.

@ElBanana Thank you for answering my questions, you are a strong person despite what you may think.

I hope you manage to get to where you want to be - Just as everyone has mentioned in the comments above, please remember you are not responsible for his debt and don’t feel his baggage is yours to sort financially. If you can, maybe try to stash a small amount of money as you go each month and see if you can get some help to get you on your feet independently and away from your husband if that is what you want?

Wow, second time he’s ruined your maternity leave.

He’s made the active choice to lie to you repeatedly, ten and more times a day, hundreds of times each week, for the whole of your pregnancy and longer.

And this isn’t the first time. Here you are again, supposed to be in a lovely baby bubble settling into life as a family of 4 and instead you’re mopping up after him.

We’ve just paid the last payment of DC’s uni fees and accommodation which has cost us around 50k in total over the three years. I can’t even imagine my DH blowing that money on something so selfish and not giving a fuck. Fair play to you, I don’t think I could get past that.

Have you ran credit checks on yourself? How do you know that what you know is all the debt there is?

@SauviGone Yep you are right - It’s exactly how you say it & it’s shit.
He has lied repeatedly and it’s not nice seeing it that way but it’s true.

The thing I am changing this time is that I will not be assisting with any funds.

I have seen the consolidation and as far as I am aware, given there are a total of 8 lenders listed with various amounts, a CC and maxed out OD, I cannot imagine there is much more 😣

I can see my credit score, associated debits and cannot see any funds taken or any additional sign ups that I don’t recognise…
I don’t understand given he has told me what should be the ‘worst’ why it would be worth hiding anything additional! It’s pretty frickin’ huge as it is.

@MummaSomething I don't want to cause any divisions in your thoughts, and ultimately, you have to do what is right for you, but your DH needs to take responsibility for his actions and you might have to take all financial control.

With GAMSTOP, I have no option to gamble online, and I wouldn't entertain walking into a 'bookies' to gamble, and I never have placed a bet in any.

I lost a significant amount of money that I could sustain (although I did go into borrowing - again, I could afford to pay it back), but I was lying to my DH and I told him about it. I was scared where my addiction could actually go. After I lied to him, I lied further and I told him once again.

I'm still scared, because when my ban on GAMSTOP is up, all I have to do is phone and say I don't want to be included anymore. It is easier for me to just go back on and ban myself again. I've done it twice now.

I didn't seek help via GA, but that is a thing and it's something that I can't comment on.

The only thing I can say is that I think I will always be capable of losing £5k in a night, whether that be my money or through a loan, or worse, my money and then a Loan on top, and it's scarily easy to do.

So, I have set boundaries by using GamStop.

I wish you could speak to my cousin, whom I've written about many times on MN in response to women looking for help with their gambling-addict husbands.

My cousin is a lovely woman, a brilliant mother, educated, insightful, and very intelligent. Even after numerous incidents of accumulating debt, lies, and betrayals, she absolutely refused to believe that her husband would ruin her. He did. He literally ruined her life. She lost everything she has ever worked for and she's never been able to get it back.

Your husband is an addict and he has already proven that his desire to gamble is more important than you or your kids.

Take your blinders off and face the reality of what you're dealing with with. His addiction is more powerful than the decent man you believe him to be.

This deceit of the magnitude I find I could not handle. He spent what was essentially a university degree for at least one of your children.

You blame yourself because he was trying to keep up with your salary 'the first time'?!!! I'm sorry I can't give real advice apart from to try and separate / ring fence your assets for you and your children. I know you said you've checked your credit score and I'm surprised; it won't be long before he starts taking out cards or loans in your name - or your kids. Others have practical advice but I would make him agree to cash only with pre-paid card for emergencies.

Sorry, I don't know where I read you'd checked your credit rating - but you need to.