Found out Husband has hidden debt from me (for the 2nd time).

[MummaSomething]

Please be kind - Not sure if I should be turning to strangers around this but I just need outsider opinions I guess…

I have a very loving husband and a wonderful father to our two children - I will do this very long story short but apologies if it does go on.

I found out this weekend, from opening his post after suspecting (from past doings) something was off and I was correct. Multiple loan lenders with vast amounts borrowed.

I’d found a mail 2 weeks prior to this & questioned him but the amount was very small and he stated ‘that doesn’t sound right, will look when home but I don’t have anything outstanding’… I don’t know why but I just wanted to believe him.
Now, sadly he’s done this before when I was pregnant with our first child he ended up confessing that he’d gotten us into 30k worth of debt & promised whole heartedly this would never happen again. I was distraught but so was he and it was agonising seeing him in such pain and I had saved a vast amount for my maternity and ended up paying most of it off for him (I have a well paid job/career and earn over double what my husband does but since this incident, we joint up our salary’s and I managed all finances and he’d cut up his credit cards).

It’s gambling but also, in some cases the first time attempting to keep up with myself financially… Not that he has ever needed to. We are married and we throw it in one pot, have a very comfortable life, though I feel this is somewhat a battle that some men have when their other halves earn more.

Anyway, feel like I’m jumping all over but he has now 5years later got us into a further near on 50k of debt, gambling and then attempting to keep up with card payments, credit cards he reactivated(!!!) and I am heartbroken.
I love this man and he loves me & our family dearly but I can’t help but feel so very angry. Not to mention I have found out just 4 months after giving birth to our 2nd beautiful lil one - The 2nd maternity leave I have to be burdened with unnecessary debt and quite frankly deceit as this time he had no intention of me finding out as he had got a debt plan in place, covering part of it and was terrified I’d divorce him.
At this stage of our family life we live up to our means, we’d moved and our mortgage has gone up an insane amount, along with the cost of living and my savings this time would cover some but I need this money to keep us afloat whilst I’m out of work, given how costly our outgoings are now in comparison to where we were before. I’m just in total shock.

How do I move forward here and how do I ensure this does not sink us in some way, financially or emotionally, as currently I know I am going to sit with SO much resentment. He needs help and I am trying to lead with this but… Man, I feel so weak with all this.

I'd defo divorce on paper. Otherwise you will end up losing your house to his debtors and you will have nothing to leave your children. Who like you both will be homeless.

Divorce on paper. Have him sign the house and mortgage over to you. Protect your property and keep a roof over all your heads.

After that your finances are no longer linked so it's up to him what he does. It won't damage your credit score.

Sorry you're going through this. It sucks. He needs professional help. That would be a condition worth imposing.

@RosiePosiee Thats brilliant thank you! Very helpful - That Tik Tok recommendation, I am definitely going to check out as I am desperate to understand the cogs that turn!

GA is definitely happening, I still think he is slightly in denial about it actually being a gambling addiction as such.
There is no denying it 😖

Thanks @Desperatelydoomscrolling for sharing your experience and I’m also very sorry you had to go through it over and over.
I’m fully prepared that feelings could change, I’m riding that wave really & it makes so much sense that sometimes they have to lose it all, to really realise it’s just not worth it.

There are things that are cushioning the blow for him, that I do have to bring him back down to earth on. It’s frustrating, as one person mentioned that actually he is still going to be living very comfortably moving forward, as he’s in a family unit and I still have earnings as such… Whereas if he was on his own with it, it would be an entirely different and quite scary reality. I just hope he truly realises it.

I hope the GA helps, other views from people there, may make it more real, not so close to home.
The stark reality of how bad it really is
Sometimes we need mega real experiences, to really hammer the point, you should be relaxing and enjoying with your new baby.

Hey OP, just checking in and happy to
see you updating, sending you so much strength and resolve!! And amongst all this nonsense, remember self care. You are shouldering A LOT.
xxx

Name changed for this. I don't have specific advice for your situation but wanted to offer a viewpoint from someone who has been in a similar position.

I found out in our first year of marriage that my husband was a gambling addict. He hadn't spent any of our joint money but he had spent a LOT of his own and ran up debt. The savings I thought he had to go towards our first house didn't exist. He admitted it when I pushed a conversation about budget for buying a house after he'd been reluctant to pool finances.

At first, he didn't see it as an addiction. He thought he was gambling to get out if the hole he was in and would be able to stop. He now knows this isn't true.

I told both sets of parents and insisted that he told his closest friends. It was important that I didn't feel alone and I needed other people to hold him accountable. I took full control of all bank accounts and insisted he went to GA. I spent several really difficult months deciding whether to stay with him or not. Regardless of where the money came from, he had changed the course of our future and lied about it. I couldn't understand how he could be SO stupid for so long and I tortured myself over how easily he had hidden it from me.

It's been 13 years and he hasn't gambled once. He wont even buy something if it means he gets entered into a free prize draw! He's still in GA and very much accepts it as something he will do for the rest of his life. He worked hard (we both did) to clear all the debt and we eventually sorted our finances, bought a house and had kids. It was later than either of us wanted and that's something that I still find upsetting- the wasted years while we saved.

We come across lots of people and families in the GA community, and in all honesty, its not a silver bullet. They have to work at it, accept the guilt, be truly sorry and never, ever get complacent. People slip regularly but there are also people who have been going for 20, 30, 40 years without gambling. Members are brutally honest with each other, they don't put up with any excuses and will call each other out on bad or harmful behaviours.

I also minimised his addiction to begin with but it helped me when I finally accepted that he was an addict. Addict felt like such a dirty word and not something I wanted to label my husband. At first I thought he'd go to GA meetings for a few months and be fixed, then stop.

My husband is a completely different person after his time in GA. He has helped dozens and dozens of other members, he's in daily contact with people who need support and he's far more open, empathetic and caring. But to be successful he had to commit and take it really seriously - sometimes I resent the time it takes up and it can be hard not to remind him of all the life we missed out on while we repaid debt.

Eventually I loosened control of finances because I realised that he wasn't able to gamble and while that is a good thing to begin with, it didn't give me the confidence to know that he would choose not to if he DID have access to money! He has completely normal access to our finances now.

Some people can be really black and white about things like this and I've seen comments on past gambling threads about how you can never trust a gambler again. I believe you can but they really have to work to regain that trust and then keep working to maintain it. It's not easy, but possible.

I've not felt the need to use it buy GamAnon is a service for the family members of a gambling addict and I know some people have found it helpful to better understand.

I hope you find a way forward that is best for you and your children.

You're doing brilliantly. I have to say my initial response was to be incredibly angry but then I saw the low he really was at, he was devastated and I'd never seen him cry before then.

I then realised how close to suicide he was when he lost the money. We were actually out with friends when he lost 4k in one go. I saw his face drain of colour and he went to puke in the train toilet. I was initially very angry but that quickly turned to 'it's ok, we can fix this, it will take xyz but we can fix this, we'll do it together and never again'

Your husband did do it again and that is a little different but I didn't see the point in telling him how much he'd fucked up, how hideous it was etc; he knew. He needed my support and love and kindness.

There is a website for men's help with gambling and it's run by the girl gambler but also has a lot of celebs who have had situations like your husband and it is about how to rebuild your life after gambling. Honestly if you need any support just pm me xx

hopefully after he's had chance to speak to people who understand and he has a plan in place to stop it ever happening again, therapy and all that comes with it, you can enjoy being a family of 4 and be safe in the knowledge it will never happen again

www.epicrestartfoundation.org

@Nsky62 For sure, he’s got in contact with someone from the group and I’ve read the messages and he’s really setting expectation around the group not accepting excuses and that he’s not to leave it another week as this leaves too much time for him to change his mind, etc… I want him to see some raw reality.

@MrsKwazi Thank you ☺️ You are truly very sweet and a real warmth in this thread - I so appreciate it! I’ve got a nice spa gift from
my colleagues prior to mat leave, thinking of just having a day completely to myself! If I feel comfortable enough away from my littlest 😬

@EmilyInBolton Ohh thanks so much for sharing! For giving me a glimmer of hope, it seems GA is a real important aspect here and I’m confident it will at least give some realisation at the magnitude of his problem and yes… He has started telling family, I am telling mine and also friends.

The thing that is keeping me on this course and reading others in similar positions from other threads… People have left their other halves and such for much less than what I am dealing with. It’s very confronting and I need it.
I agree with the black and white nature of these forums, I do also think people can only take from what they read at a very high level, some want the best but also, you have some who just want you to put a freakin explosive to your life and watch the drama unfold. It’s great to see some success here, it really is ♥️

@RosiePosiee thank you very much ♥️ I’m not sure I feel as though I am but time will tell!
we are now a week on today and I’m feeling a little less a deer in headlights. I can tell you the emotion both times were of pure humiliation and disgust of himself and I too have not seen him this low… everything made sense from that moment, the depression he’d admitted to shortly after our daughter arrived, the Flippant lack of tolerance and irritation… It all made sense.

That is devastating that he’d managed to do that of an evening you were socialising, it just shows no amount of distraction cuts into this - I don’t think I’ll be surprised at anything from this point onward though, reading through some of the things I have.

Thank you also for the support, I absolutely will take you up on that if I’m at a loss with all this - Very lovely of you ☺️

Please be aware that many of these blocks have different amounts of times they can be set for and expiration of that time is triggering for a lot of people. BUT - you can speak to your internet provider and mobile phone carrier who will sometimes be able to ban material at that level. You can also look into adjusting your router.

There are 15 services to help gambling harms around the country, they were set up about 2 years ago and although they are pilots, I think they will probably expand. You could see what is available in your area.

@Autumnismyfavouritetimeofyear Thank you for that, a lot of effort to keep all this away… Hope it’s worth it.

Many years ago, one of my family was married to a man just like your DH. She also forgave him the first time but the second time it happened she couldn’t pay off the debts and they lost their home. They were both declared bankrupt and they divorced at that point, while their children were very young. She wishes she’d divorced him the first time it happened.

ObvIously, I agree with pp who say you should divorce him and put the house into your sole name. I would also move half the savings and (sorry to say it) anything like jewellery away from where he could access it. Has he offered to get a second job to pay off the debts? If not, you should suggest this.

Hi @Toastcrumbsinsofa
All the savings are within my accounts anyway and he has no access/visibility but of course still could be ‘accessed’ if things got bad by collectors.

I would suggest another job but he has just got another which pays more… The only problem is that the hours are long, won’t be home until 6.45pm in the eve and works 1 weekend day and a full weekend every so many weeks… He’d never see the children and I need a break too.
He does however have another project which can and will bring in the odd bit of money from time to time (won’t say exactly what that is, as can be quite telling if any fam/friends/himself comes across this thread).

It’s good that he’s got a better paid job and that the savings are in your name.

Do you have any cars that are owned outright? Debt collectors can’t take vehicles being paid for on a finance deal or company cars, but anything else can be seized.

As well as getting help from GA, it may be helpful to talk to debt counsellors at either Stepchange or Christians against poverty (you don’t need to be religious). I’m so sorry that you’ve been put into this situation.

@Toastcrumbsinsofa
No cars outright and aswell as GA every week. he is also booked into therapy sessions specialised in gambling 1 evening biweekly.

He’s taking it seriously but he has no choice but to & thank you for your sympathies around it, I keep telling myself there is much worse going on around the world right now, which there indisputably is… Not minimising this though, just helping me with some kind of perspective.

Please read the other threads on here. Women have lost their houses.

Hi @NewDogOwner
im hoping you’ll notice that I’ve read every single comment made and have made as much effort as possible to respond to almost everyone (if I haven’t it would have been an honest mistake or just a personal judgement I wasn’t mentally ready to respond to)

Something else I wanted to mention for you to think about is if your family or friends offer any kind any financial support. Don’t accept a lump sum of money into your bank account at this stage. Ask for help to pay directly for divorce costs, solicitor’s fees when you transfer the house and mortgage into your name, supermarket vouchers, children’s shoes etc.

How's it going now op?

Lots of people have mentioned Gamstop and GA for him. I haven't read the whole thread, but haven't seen a reference to https://gamanon.org.uk/ for you. I suspect that's where you'll find friends who have been through very similar, to support you.

Sending hugs and strength. Yes £50k feels huge, but it IS doable - or so I gather from the hundreds of threads on MSE debt free wannabee boards. Maybe eat the elephant a mouthful at a time - £5k a year for the next 10 years, for example....

Hi @Adventurerno24 Thanks for checking in, it’s been a ride… We are still together and continuing the plan we’d set.
GameStop and all such things were first applied and he is now a weekly attendee at GA and has made such positive relationships, experiences he’s even already chaired a couple of sessions.
He attended additional therapy which has now come to a natural end until he feels he needs more but again, really helpful and helped him gain perspective from a family/relationship balance on the impact.

We have taken a lot of advise from those within this thread, so thank you so much - We have canceled all accounts and he has opened with Starling bank, where I get full visibility. He came into some inheritance, not a huge amount but enough to wipe the outstanding OD and CC he had open on top of the lenders and all lenders are on a secure payment plan, checked/double/triple/quadruple to ensure all is taken care of and all lenders are aware, so we can put an end to the chaser mail.

we remain married on paper, it has crossed my mind to have this looked at but it’s something that would deeply hurt me to have to do and with the steps taken this time, I do feel extremely confident that we are on a very strong positive road and he has the support in place to get through this throughout the years to come.
He took a huge step in sending messages to all friends and family (unprompted) to share what had happened, in a bid to confront his problems and openly share that he has struggled, may continue to do so but that he has done XYZ and therefore has had an outpouring of support but also stern words, understandably.
I will also be attending Gamanon sessions @weirdoboelady 😊 (thank you for linking) in the next door family support group once my DD is old enough to be looked after of an evening. To help with any struggles I have, some guidance from others in the same situation…

It’s going to be a long road but I feel this time we really have put some clear actions in place.

I’m sure many are still going to have strong opinions around this happening again, I totally understand and am under no illusion this is bullet proof 🥴

So from reading this my first thought was that you should have full control of your finances from both your saleries and that he should just get an allowance. I noticed that people mentioned something called gamstop is it possible to prevent someone from taking out a loan or a credit card in a similar way?

Divorce.

How is he intending to pay it off? Second job? What’s his plan to seek help for his addiction? There will be a next time.

In the meantime is there any way you can disassociate yourself financially from him? He’s going to ruin you. You can’t keep bailing him out.

Protect yourself.

I still think divorce on paper would be best for you. Addiction are very hard to overcome and a relapse in a decade time, would have a bigger impact on your dc. The possibility of relapse would be the thing that would cause most of my anxiety. Which means, in case he relapse in the future, he would only harm himself and you and your dc would be safer. However, you are not me. We all have our unique thing we won't stand for.

I divorced my ex because of financial reasons. I still to this day don't know where our savings and his money went. My dc having a stable and settled home was more important than ex. Who's action was leading us to homeless.

I needed to borrow from family to pay for rent and buy food. Yet, ex earned 80k that year. I used to work part-time, minimal wage job, working around our dc including autistic son. Our rent was cheap.
Financial infidelity and taking me for a Mug, saying husband and wife support each other while, stealing cash he himself had given me to pay some bills. I decided he loved whatever he spent the money on more than he loved his dc and me. I didn't stay long enough to figure out where the money went. He used to take money out in cash. I slept really well when he moved out.

Not gambling but honestly you can take all his cash cards but he can go to the bank with a passport and take cash out. I cannot tell you how depressing it is living with this constant cloud of suspicion and worry is it happening again.

I know there’s a long trail but it is clear some are just commenting with out reading the history here…

Hi @Angus100 He has a Starling account, that I have full visibility.

@Glitchymn1 He’s on a Debt recovery plan, that is managing all the debt in consolidation and has frozen all interest. This in turn impacts credit limits and borrowing capabilities.
He attends GA and Therapy, we are also about to add marriage counselling to the mix also. I’ve not bailed him out at all this time.

@Bread121bread I do also agree Divorce on paper would be extra protection, it’s a daunting thing for me to get my head around. I’m sorry to hear your experiences dealing with a spouse with addition, it does keep me up at times and I do honestly put my children first… This is not a question of that, what you also have to understand, is putting them first is much more than just financial, he is their dad.
I’m the breadwinner in my marriage by quite some, he has no access to our savings… Never has, which has been a blessing I can tell you. I’m not Financially dependant on him at all.

@Fluffycloudsfloatinginthesky Your not wrong, it’s hard and will be moving forward, marriages are hard and as I have said previously, he has had to deal with me at my worst also and it’s something that also I can’t forget.