Found out Husband has hidden debt from me (for the 2nd time).

[MummaSomething]

Please be kind - Not sure if I should be turning to strangers around this but I just need outsider opinions I guess…

I have a very loving husband and a wonderful father to our two children - I will do this very long story short but apologies if it does go on.

I found out this weekend, from opening his post after suspecting (from past doings) something was off and I was correct. Multiple loan lenders with vast amounts borrowed.

I’d found a mail 2 weeks prior to this & questioned him but the amount was very small and he stated ‘that doesn’t sound right, will look when home but I don’t have anything outstanding’… I don’t know why but I just wanted to believe him.
Now, sadly he’s done this before when I was pregnant with our first child he ended up confessing that he’d gotten us into 30k worth of debt & promised whole heartedly this would never happen again. I was distraught but so was he and it was agonising seeing him in such pain and I had saved a vast amount for my maternity and ended up paying most of it off for him (I have a well paid job/career and earn over double what my husband does but since this incident, we joint up our salary’s and I managed all finances and he’d cut up his credit cards).

It’s gambling but also, in some cases the first time attempting to keep up with myself financially… Not that he has ever needed to. We are married and we throw it in one pot, have a very comfortable life, though I feel this is somewhat a battle that some men have when their other halves earn more.

Anyway, feel like I’m jumping all over but he has now 5years later got us into a further near on 50k of debt, gambling and then attempting to keep up with card payments, credit cards he reactivated(!!!) and I am heartbroken.
I love this man and he loves me & our family dearly but I can’t help but feel so very angry. Not to mention I have found out just 4 months after giving birth to our 2nd beautiful lil one - The 2nd maternity leave I have to be burdened with unnecessary debt and quite frankly deceit as this time he had no intention of me finding out as he had got a debt plan in place, covering part of it and was terrified I’d divorce him.
At this stage of our family life we live up to our means, we’d moved and our mortgage has gone up an insane amount, along with the cost of living and my savings this time would cover some but I need this money to keep us afloat whilst I’m out of work, given how costly our outgoings are now in comparison to where we were before. I’m just in total shock.

How do I move forward here and how do I ensure this does not sink us in some way, financially or emotionally, as currently I know I am going to sit with SO much resentment. He needs help and I am trying to lead with this but… Man, I feel so weak with all this.

Op, I'm sorry your having to deal with this. It's horrendous. However, for a gambling addict, paying off his 30k worth of debt and then staying with him was absolutely enabling him, and that why he did it all over again, and lost even more this time, and secretly reactivated credit cards. It worked for him the first time, and it's working for him the second time. He is an addict, gambling is his heroin. You are currently thinking you can manage this by essentially having to be his mother, in control of everything, but that's already failed. My cousin repeated this exact scenario more times that I can remember, and she still lost everything because of his addiction. You also have to consider how you want to live the rest of your life. You want a husband you have to monitor like a child, who you will never be able to fully trust because he will be doing everything possible to gamble again.

I'm feel terribly for you, I really do. You still think you can fix this, and I'm very sorry to say you can't. There are countless posts on MN from other women who have lived this, perhaps you should read them.

@Aquamarine1029 i have read them, many of them.

I did the first time that is correct but this time, I am definitely not encouraging anything - currently staying, yes… but this is a journey, I’m under no allusion that some point down the line I may not want this given the lack of trust, the monitoring and potential further deceit. There are people that recover from drugs, eating disorders and Gambling and we haven’t tackled this like an addiction before & as I’ve said above, I feel like I need to give that at least a chance?

Gambling is such a strong addiction. It's everywhere. Even if he blocks from UK sites, non-UK sites are always popping up. Adverts are everywhere for them.
Honestly with 2 kids is there any way you can protect your assets? Gamblers do desperate stuff to feed their addiction. You don't want to find your home is at risk. I'm unsure if there's any way to do it, but can you take him off the house deeds so he can't remortgage or use your house as security behind your back? If he gives in to the urge he won't be thinking of the long-term consequences to you and your children.
Is he willing to go to Gamblers Anonymous as well?
I don't envy you. I have seen families lose everything due to the deceitful actions of gambling addicts. It's a big risk to take.

can you take him off the house deeds so he can't remortgage or use your house as security behind your back?

You can set up a property alert on the land registry. It’s free and anyone can do it for any address. You’ll get notified if someone tries to register a charge on the property or tries to have the deeds amended in any way.

It’s absolutely something the OP should do.

I think it was admirable that you forgave him and helped pay off the debt the first time it happened. I think it is foolish to forgive him a second time. One of the things I prioritised in a spouse was honesty and I couldn't get past somebody consistently and repeatedly lying to me. I could forgive infidelity much more readily than I could forgive dishonesty over money. At the very least, you need good legal advice to wall off your assets as much as possible whether by trusts or whatever it takes to keep them as separate assets because your husband simply cannot be trusted. Hell would be freezing over before I'd be contributing to a pension for him. I'd be concentrating on my retirement savings being something he would never get his hands on in the event of a split. Fine, if when you're retired you want to share something with him, but let it be your choice.

Now I know some reformed gamblers have posted who have managed to stop and their spouses have stood by them. I am glad for them. The truth though is that most people don't change. If they do, it is usually after something awful has happened to them and they have an epiphany. It obviously didn't happen when your husband got into £30,000 of debt. After "promising whole heartedly" this would never happen again he is now, a mere five years later, in debt for a further £50,000. Next time it might be £100,000. I am not trying to be mean and I understand you are devastated but this is not my idea of a wonderful husband and father. You're obviously an intelligent woman but I think you may have a blind spot about your husband.

I think your husband deep down resents you and I think he will continue to do things to undermine you. I am a solicitor, not in the UK though, and what I have seen in my career has convinced me just how badly people can behave and they do tend to keep on doing it. I know of one case where the husband forged his wife's signature on the mortgage documents and raised money on their house without her knowledge. They try to cheat ex-wives out of a fair share of the property in endlessly inventive ways. I have always kept my own money separate and only our house is joint property. I have almost always earned much more than my husband and he was nothing but pleased for me. He did a lot to facilitate my career and now he is retired he has taken over most of the cooking and house administration for me.

If you get an account with starling you can see every transaction as it happens on a card. You can also ban his card
And account with any gambling things at all. I can't even use mine on the lottery as it flags up as gambling.

There are people that recover from drugs, eating disorders and Gambling and we haven’t tackled this like an addiction before & as I’ve said above, I feel like I need to give that at least a chance?

The is no "we" in this, op. This is all him. 100%. He has to, all on his own, want to stop gambling and get the help he needs to make that even a remote possibility. Sadly, I fear you really haven't grasped this part of it yet. Nothing you do will help him fix this problem, it all has to come from him. There were a million opportunities, the second time he fucked you over, for him to stop gambling, to come clean, get help and face his problems. He did not. He did everything possible to hide all of this, again, from you. I think it is nearly impossible for someone who doesn't have a gambling addiction to even fathom how massive of a monster it is you're dealing with.

SIL lost everything including her house due to her now Ex gambler.

He got sneakier each time.

Gambling is such a strong addiction.

Don't rule out temporary separation.

I really would insist on legally protecting the house in any way possible from him even in divorce. I think legal financial separation is possible.

I think what is most difficult is that he could be amazing for 7 years no gambling, paying off debts then he gets tempted and he'll hide it, then again and again.

Can you live with that level of distrust forever.

You are very vulnerable at the moment. Whatever decision you make now isn't the one you have to stick with. How you feel in a year's time may be very different.

I think resentment could be the killer.

So he's pissed £80k up the wall - almost half of which you paid off the first time and he's gone and done it again but you say you are neither a mug or an enabler? 🤔 sorry OP in the kindest possible way you are delusional - doesn't matter how hard you are to be married to doesn't give him carte blanche to do this.

You should have made him pay it the first times. He needs to get a second or third job. What does this teach your children??

OP I really feel for you and you’ve had great advice, I just wanted to say that even though you may think you are taking no responsibility for his debt this time, you kind of are. You are subsidising his life while he is paying his debts. If your money is in one pot (which I think you said it is?), you are paying too, whichever way it is dressed up.

please please please consider getting a divorce on paper. You can still live together etc, but your home, pension, savings, credit rating etc will be protected, also in case of a split down the line. He should see the sense in this, it is the least he can do!!

I can also guarantee that being the responsible one, the watcher, always having that niggle in the back of your mind, always thinking twice about whatever he says/does/goes will totally chip away at your relationship. He has done this TWICE when you have been at your MOST VULNERABLE, with a newborn every time. The resentment will be a killer.

I feel so so bad for you. You sound intelligent, strong and together, but I fear you are (understandably, you're protecting your family) way too generous here.

@reesewithoutaspoon ill be putting the house in just my name and setting up the alert - He will also be attending GA as from next week. I understand your concern, I too am terrified to give another chance but as I say, I truly am mulling this over with all info at hand and how to move forward. It’s only been 5 days since I found out about it 😖 It’s a hell of a lot to process.

Thanks @SauviGone thats really useful to know. This is the information I really need.

Hi@ThorndonCream
Yup, it’s a gigantic pill to swallow and it’s the fact he wasn’t actually going to tell me that i am finding the most difficult to be honest.

i agree with all you say, bar the resentment part as it would absolutely show up elsewhere also if this was the case. As a person and in every other aspect he has never shown, spoke to me or lived in a way that would indicate any forms of resentment.

@RosiePosiee Thank you! That’s really great to know - Man, there’s a lot to put in place.

I would take all the measures on here but I would divorce if only to protect yourself legally and show him you mean business- you can still live together - no one even needs to know and if he does it again-- much easier to untangle.

Thank you @MrsKwazi for writing that with some softness as I really need it 😞 Like a virtual hug of sorts.
I know how this looks - I’m in a mess and it feels like in both directions I’m staring at a mess and quite frankly my family unit entirely breaking down. I’ve just had my 2nd child… to think that she won’t know what it is to have her parents together is breaking me.

i don’t think I’ve cried up until writing this very message. It’s so much to take on and it’s hard to see some real frank messages but I do understand why.

1. He needs to go for treatment - there are gambling clinics you can self refer to opening up all over the UK.
2. You need to get some support - ADFAM or something similar is really important for people in your position.

Gambling is a horrible thing - it is really hard for people to stop by themselves.

@amothersinstinct Please please, don’t state what this teaches my children… I have enough on my plate than dealing with an enth degree of mum guilt.

They will not have a clue about this (they are too small at this point 5yo & 4mos), even if this ends in separation. their dad is still their dad and is between me and him.

From what I understand putting your house and other assets in your name only will not protect you as long as you are married - they will remain legally shared assets. You need to divorce. At the bare minimum speak to a divorce solicitor to get advice.

That doesn't have to mean putting an end to your relationship or not living in the same home etc. But you have to write him off financially. He will never contribute financially to your household, your best case scenario is that financially you are going to be a single parent. Maybe he can contribute to every day bills (eg shopping, supplies, even holidays) with the money he has. But you have to be responsible and in control of everything, and whatever he contributed can be a bonus. You can take steps (complete financial separation so that he can declare bankruptcy and you aren't affected) so that he doesn't leave you financially worse off than a single parent. So that he doesn't ruin you and ruin your children's one and only childhood to boot. I'm talking, having to sell your home, having to leave their schools and their friends, having to give up their hobbies, knowing that their dad wrecked it all, knowing that they could have had higher education opportunities and a start on the housing ladder if it weren't for their dad. The risk is real as long as you stay financially tethered to and responsible for him, which you are in marriage.

There is no point saying "next time there will be XYZ consequences" because when he next starts gambling, which he almost certainly will, the threat will drive him to gamble further. Because gamblers use gambling as a way to try to avoid the consequences of gambling. He has already spent 10s of thousands on hiding his problem from you. How much will he spend to keep his next relapse from you when he knows it's his last chance?

It doesn't matter whether he is responsible or not, forget about blame that's just how gambling works. Truly, I pity him. But the facts of gambling addiction are as they are. One moment of weakness and he will attempt to use gambling to save himself. Worse consequences just means more gambling to escape those consequences. Make it so that there are no consequences to you, and he won't have to hide it from you. You will all be better off.

@MummaSomething I agree totally with @MrsKwazi and really feel for you too- you know what they say about marriage only being a piece of paper? Reverse is true - not having it can protect you too and may save your relationship as well - divorce with house in your name- anything stupid he does after that will all be on his shoulders- whether he is still living with you or not

I can’t relate to what you are going through, sending you , love, strength, and the hope your husband may recover/ manage the mess, he’s made twice to your family xx

Oh OP your a very strong woman. I wouldn't be able to look at my partner without any disdain. I think the resentments will start soon and it's awful when you have young children. I couldn't go through it a second time. Sending you positive vibes.

Hi@Shrimpi
ive since discussed all these options with him and he has stated he will do anything I want him to do, including divorce ‘on paper’ (obviously divorce in total, wouldn’t be a discussion - It would be decision…)

I will make sure my children do not feel the force of this as much as I can whatever decision is made, they are my world.

@Crikeyalmighty @cerebuswannabe @Nsky62 Thank you for your thoughts x

OP Are you my dd? And does your name begin with K?

Hi@Mum2jenny ☺️
No, I’m not - I’m quite confident non of my family would be signed up to MN.

I will make sure my children do not feel the force of this as much as I can whatever decision is made, they are my world.

If this is true, then you will know you have to save yourself first. You have to put on your life jacket before you can even begin to think about trying to help your husband, because if you don't, he will drown both of you. I'm sorry you don't have the marriage you want and deserve, but you can't pretend any longer that you have the power to fix this.

Give her a break, we see things differently, objectively, she's doing what she can, obviously very able too.
Hopefully we can be compassionate and empathetic.
It’s a situation I can never comprehend, tho I’m single , divorced and have a quieter life

Sadly I can’t get his mindset, and change things for you, as we all know he must want that change.