Found out Husband has hidden debt from me (for the 2nd time).

[MummaSomething]

Please be kind - Not sure if I should be turning to strangers around this but I just need outsider opinions I guess…

I have a very loving husband and a wonderful father to our two children - I will do this very long story short but apologies if it does go on.

I found out this weekend, from opening his post after suspecting (from past doings) something was off and I was correct. Multiple loan lenders with vast amounts borrowed.

I’d found a mail 2 weeks prior to this & questioned him but the amount was very small and he stated ‘that doesn’t sound right, will look when home but I don’t have anything outstanding’… I don’t know why but I just wanted to believe him.
Now, sadly he’s done this before when I was pregnant with our first child he ended up confessing that he’d gotten us into 30k worth of debt & promised whole heartedly this would never happen again. I was distraught but so was he and it was agonising seeing him in such pain and I had saved a vast amount for my maternity and ended up paying most of it off for him (I have a well paid job/career and earn over double what my husband does but since this incident, we joint up our salary’s and I managed all finances and he’d cut up his credit cards).

It’s gambling but also, in some cases the first time attempting to keep up with myself financially… Not that he has ever needed to. We are married and we throw it in one pot, have a very comfortable life, though I feel this is somewhat a battle that some men have when their other halves earn more.

Anyway, feel like I’m jumping all over but he has now 5years later got us into a further near on 50k of debt, gambling and then attempting to keep up with card payments, credit cards he reactivated(!!!) and I am heartbroken.
I love this man and he loves me & our family dearly but I can’t help but feel so very angry. Not to mention I have found out just 4 months after giving birth to our 2nd beautiful lil one - The 2nd maternity leave I have to be burdened with unnecessary debt and quite frankly deceit as this time he had no intention of me finding out as he had got a debt plan in place, covering part of it and was terrified I’d divorce him.
At this stage of our family life we live up to our means, we’d moved and our mortgage has gone up an insane amount, along with the cost of living and my savings this time would cover some but I need this money to keep us afloat whilst I’m out of work, given how costly our outgoings are now in comparison to where we were before. I’m just in total shock.

How do I move forward here and how do I ensure this does not sink us in some way, financially or emotionally, as currently I know I am going to sit with SO much resentment. He needs help and I am trying to lead with this but… Man, I feel so weak with all this.

I would leave a man that compromises mine and my children's security.

Whether financial or in any other abusive way.

Been through it and I am so grateful that life is so much better without all that fuckery around.

So sorry you're going through this OP. Please chose you and the children's future.
It never gets better.

This x1000

He is not a wonderful husband or father. Sorry. Good luck to you. 💐

Isn’t there a saying, ‘once is a mistake, twice us a choice’.

50k is a huge amount if money. How much is it going to be the third time? And fourth, etc

Apologies without going into granular detail - That is the 25% per say… The max’d out CC and OD and then the fluctuation from there was a mix of dabbling, saving face from expenses he no longer had with getting through the month and covering charges, which then he’d cover with lenders or look at cheaper interest rates and borrow, whilst covering additional expenses which grew the debt over the last 3/4yrs.

Whoa - I have just taken this in.

His debt rose to a level where he couldn’t cover the interest maybe 4 years ago? Which, if the first time was when you were on maternity leave with your now 5yo would be only a year or so after you discovered his debt and paid it off.

Think about how long that shockwave of tackling the debt lasted for him. And how long it affected you.

Has everything he’s told you since you found out again added up? Is there anything that seems a bit suspect? Where the numbers aren’t really right? Or he “just can’t remember”? Or, and this especially, where he says one thing then you find something else and he changes his story?

@MummaSomething

It's important though isn't it. Whether they are 5 and 4 months or 20. When they are older they will learn what their dad did - because their lives will be impacted - most families just don't have a spare £50k lying around to pay off debt like this so some sacrifices will presumably need to be made. And they will look at you and think you were perhaps weak and so blinded by an irrational love for a man that you put sorting his mess out above yourself and them. I'm not sure I'd respect my mother if she did this. It's no different to being the wife who turns a blind eye to her husbands multiple affairs. I'm sorry I know that's harsh. But you have to have some self respect here too. He will do it again you know he will. His tears and shame are crocodile tears because he got caught nothing more. He didn't confess because he realised he needed help - you found out so he decides to turn on the waterworks. He is not a wonderful husband and father because wonderful people just don't spunk £80k of family money up the wall

He has done this TWICE when you have been at your MOST VULNERABLE, with a newborn every time.

I'm thinking about a friend here whose H is an alcoholic.

For years, there's been a pattern: whenever there's a family upheaval, he drinks to incapacity.

Birth of a child; first day of school; death of his MIL; my friend being seriously injured in an accident; child in crisis at uni -- off he goes to get pissed by way of response.

He is utterly incapable of putting his family before his addiction, though he says he loves them.

@amothersinstinct I understand you are trying to put this in a perspective that is trying to make me feel a certain way but we are perhaps different… If I think this in the view of me being MY mother, I would never ever think of her as weak and I certainly wouldn’t make her feel like SHE ruined everything for me.

Regardless of the view, I am also the victim here and trying to navigate with the least collateral damage and trying not to react out of pure fear. I have to weigh up the situation as it is, with the very real people behind it.

It’s not an irrational love for goodness sake… it’s the love you have (or hope to have) when in a relationship with someone, nothing I am doing or feeling is abnormal 😤 I just have to make a decision as to whether it’s enough at this point.

I've seen the fallout of your situation at its extreme in a professional capacity when all the money has gone, the house is gone and there's a pile of debt that needs to be dealt with with a bankruptcy.

Obviously what you do is up to you and your husband, but it's so important that you go into it eyes wide open and are aware of how bad it could get.

I totally understand you want to try tackling the addiction aspect first - please make sure you do a lot of research about the nature of addiction etc. Some people recover but many people do not, and this is where getting support for yourself is key. His addiction is 100% about him and, while you can support him, the action and success of it is on him. That's just how addiction works, any sort of addiction. It's easy to blame yourself though or think you can fix the person - it's not your fault and you can't. Also all addictions are made equal and it makes people become deceitful and sometimes unrecognisable- it's a cruel disease and recovery is hard.

Financially I can't imagine he can borrow any more money at the moment. However - be aware that once he's got a couple of years into that plan, maybe a bit less, there are plenty of companies who will give him another credit card and he will slowly but surely be able to obtain more credit should he choose to.

Also, the story of debt accrual doesn't quite add up from what he's told you - I've seen/analysed plenty of using credit to pay credit situations but that's a lot to accrue like that in a short time. I'd ask him for the statements if you've not seen them and check yourself. Generally gambling addicts do not stop until the money runs out and often aren't that bothered about making payments. It makes a big difference if he last gambled last week vs two years and been trying to firefight since.

I wish you the best of luck and hope it works out for you.

@RawBloomers Mmhmm, I have thought about this myself too, it’s a further conversation I need to have. Things keep popping up by day but as far as I have seen it all adds up, I’ve seen all lender letters and consolidations, CC’s and OD statements.

He did first tell me £30k first when I made him confess on the phone (when I’d opened the letters), then I looked further.. could see total of £42k and then this did not include CC and OD, basically taking up to close to £50k. So he clearly was not wanting to realise the true extent and yes, another negative to this absolute shit storm of a situation but it’s all looks to be there.

Thanks @shuffleofftobuffalo that’s a really helpful perspective and I do need to view all statements with a fine tooth comb, just preparing the energy at the moment. This will give me a true picture. It is a lot and I did talk through the credit to cover credit last night and he said he’d pay the CC with the lender but then use the credit again and then a vicious cycle of doing that, as he too had max’d out his own OD. As I say, I really need to go through all statements.

@SeptimusSheep He doesn’t seem to quite be in this pattern. It’s not something
he does when ‘down’, it’s a flaunt, like oooo I’ll have a little down on this and then if he loses, he chases the next win but it’s episodic and can have large (yearly) gaps between.

I realise I’ve opened myself and my situation to the internet… So I’m attempting to have a thick skin on comments especially about me regarding my children but what I really am looking for is well rounded advise.

I'm looking for (even if very few) whether there are positive outcomes, yes also looking and willing to hear & understand the negative as I’m under no illusion that majority rules and I need to take that to account.
I also REALLY want to hear from any gamblers/impulsive spenders or anyone struggling with any forms of addition themselves and what this is / has done and their thoughts around relapse - This would be really insightful / helpful, if anyone is willing to speak up positive or negative.

It would also help any others coming across this thread in this or thinking they may be in the same boat.

Im truly thankful for those who have commented and put time into sharing their views so far.

I think is sporadic behaviour is possibly more difficult to deal with he needs to identify his triggers etc. Any addiction is lifelong just whether in active or recovery or not.

I think the best way forward is to divorce on paper so all assets are yours and yours alone. He's had his share! That financial security of knowing you can't lose your house/car/pension and you and the DC have financial security is priceless.

With the relationship then there is less resentment and worry for you. He can take ownership of his addiction and make it our break it with your love and support but with zero financial risk.

He's to be responsible for his own income and paying 50% going forwards.

It may be that at some point he does need to move out to sort himself out and face some of it on his own with you a bigger step back.

If he ever gambled again he would be absolutely driven to hide it. I don't think you can put that condition on him where you are controlling and checking all monies etc. the pressure would be intense. This is why I think a divorce on paper would be best.

He will sink you all. You need to decide if you're going to let him or jump.

He's proven not once, but twice now that he has no qualms about taking repeated actions and lying over and over again to your face and racking up huge debt, which implicates you and his children and the course of your lives, forever. The chances are that it will happen again, and even if it doesn't you will spend your life waiting for it to land.

This is not a wonderful husband, or a wonderful father. There might be love there, yes, but there is also huge dysfunction, and this you cannot fix.

I had the same experience, not the maternity leave added on but debt and gambling.
The first time I discovered nearly 30k of debt despite him having high earnings and spending all that too, and I took control of the finances and we scrimped as a family and paid it all off.
5 years later I discovered he’d run it all back up and then some and after some thought chucked in the towel.
Tbh I didn’t ever look at him the same after the first time, the respect was gone. And I felt overwhelmingly tired at the thought of going through all the debt stuff and being dragged down again. It’s been a few years since we’ve split and despite being in a new relationship with a fab woman he’s still the same.
Best of luck 💐

You need a full and frank review of his credit score and finances and make a plan for how to move forward. Together or separately.
Absolute minimum he needs to attend GA and work through why he does this. Is he maybe triggered by the pregnancies - maybe feeling overwhelmed by the responsibility of being sole provider whilst you're on mat leave and looking for a quick endorphin fix through gambling? Only he knows and needs to find a way forward.

I have a friend whose DHs' gambling was linked to his depression. He got his endorphin high and felt a glimpse of happiness on the rare occasions he won. He said he felt like a winner instead of always feeling like a loser (he has a good job but comes from a high achieving family and always compares himself to his DPs/DBs). It's an addiction like self medicating with drugs or alcohol. The lying and dishonesty hurt her much more than the debt. She now controls all the family finances and his phone and he's fully aware one further breach of gambling and she walks.

@Blackberriesandcobwebs Thank you for that - I’m not sure he’s triggered by the pressure to provide, I saved an exaggerated amount of money both times to cover my income whilst on Mat Leave (I also get Mat pay) given my earnings are apprx 70% of my families income.

Though there is definitely something around the depression aspect and not feeling good enough.

& thank you for sharing your friends experience and I know she is very much on a journey with a large risk ♥️

@Bowup Im so sorry to hear been through this and it ended your relationship.
When you say ‘after some thought’ you decided to leave, how long did you sit with it and what was the thought that effectively broke the camels back?

Can i ask if you had children together?

@Seas164 Agreed on the dysfunction & I can imagine anticipating it happening again, yes.

@RandomMess Thank you, it hurts but I’m thinking a divorce on paper may be the only way to take a huge section of stress away from our future. So much to spending a stupid amount of money to get bladdy married (& at the time we did it debt free, how damn ironic).

.

@RandomMess I totally agree and I feel sad for OP to have to suggest it, but as I said on a previous post whilst marriage for some women gives them
More security, in this case it's actually giving OP less security as everything is tied- therefore I think it's the most sensible solution- the relationship doesn't have to end unless OP decides in the future that's what she wants, however I think the paper ties do need to end. Imagine OP how resentful you would feel if it happened again- you decided at that point you wanted a divorce and he got half of everything including the house and pension when he had frittered away 100,000s of pounds.

I replied earlier but I want to expand on what I said.

My husband has had an issue with gambling and I've got control of our banking now.

We set up single accounts with starling, then within an hour we set up a joint account with starling. Moved all our banking to them and set up a space account within the account and all our bills go out of that space.

We set up notifications when either of us spend any money the other person gets a notification In real time of what the transaction was. There are
Bans on any kind of payment to gambling sites, including the lottery. If he tries to take that ban off I have to approve it and it would take 24 hours to come into effect.

Having our bills coming out of separate space helps us know how much money we have to spend on other things.

Gam ban and Gam stop are fantastic. I'd also recommend changing his number as I can't find a way to stop the constant text messages that DH gets for free spins and free bets. It's triggering to get them and I get that.

My husbands gambling problem was relatively minor but once he told me I said the only way I'd go forward is if we're open and honest about money.

It works for us and he hasn't gambled since

@Crikeyalmighty i do agree, it’s a shit reality.

Thank you @RosiePosiee Very grateful to view your life experience and it working so far for you - It seems you took action right away (huge praise to you), sadly i didn’t take enough and also didn’t compute the overall addiction, I almost completely let that part wash away as I’d ‘sorted’ most of the debt - Very silly of me.

Ive not heard of Starling but so good to be made aware and I’ll do my research on those ones and see what else is on offer - if he alone just banks with them, can you still arrange notifications to go to the spouse?

He has implemented Gamstop thank goodness but yes I think the messages do come - So something else I’ll raise

Yes I think you can set up notifications for your account. It definitely works on the joint account so
Perhaps you could open a joint account with them and then any of his money he's been allocated that month or week or whatever is put into that joint account you will know exactly what and where he's spending

You don't need to feel bad for his indiscretions, therapy for why he felt the need to spend the money might help him?

There are also Gamblers Anonymous meetings and they are fantastic as they provide real tangible support from people who have gone through what your husband has done and come out the other side. They do in person and zoom meetings. They also support the family if you wanted that.

I will say that it was a very rocky period but we've come out the other side and our marriage has never been stronger.

If he has an iPhone you can go into message settings on the cog icon and filter 'filter unknown senders on' and then anyone texting not in his contacts will go into a separate folder he can't see. That's as far as I got turning off the messages!

I will say that posters have been a bit harsh, I know he's got you into debt again but it is an addiction and addiction is a disease. He needs to be totally honest and have you take over completely. Not easy when you have a small baby!

On TikTok there is a creator called the Girl Gambler and she's very honest about her journey and what helped her, and what steps she used to make real change.

Feel free to message if you want.

He did a lot to facilitate my career and now he is retired he has taken over most of the cooking and house administration for me.

That's great but was the cooking and admin your job by rights or was it something you both benefited from?

@pinkyredrose No, we split cooking and life admin when we were both working and I think it's fair to say he might have done a bit more than me because my hours were usually longer. He was self-employed and worked from home so he tended to deal with sick children, taking the cat to the vet, tradesmen etc. I suppose it would be more accurate to say he has taken over what was my previous share of the cooking/admin. I didn't ask him to but he just started doing it round his many many hours on the golf course.

I don't think this really goes to OP's situation. I only mentioned it because OP said some of the expenditure was her husband trying to keep up with her financially and she felt this was a problem some men have when their wives earn more. Anyway OP is in a very unenviable situation with a new baby and with some difficult choices rather than our division of household duties.

Hi, I don’t have any advice on the gambling addiction but I just want to add my experience with secret debts. My ex husband did this over and over, would fritter away money (I’m never sure what, mostly because he liked to shop and didn’t care if he had no money to spend) get us into large amounts of debt and hide all the letters so I didn’t know. I’d often eventually find out by accident - see a letter in the post before he got to it, or find one stashed on top of wardrobe or something. Then I’d sort it all, deal with debt collectors, take out consolidation loans, sort IVAs. We would be broke for ages then it would calm down, then start again…. Eventually it was one of the main reasons I left him, I just couldn’t take the stress anymore and being worried and broke forever killed off any feelings I had (along with other behaviours I couldn’t take any more). He moved out and now two years later is apparently debt free and has savings even!
I think saving people and organising them and keeping them from their repercussions does them a massive disservice. Why limit the fun when someone else can sort out the problem later? You have to stay strong and resist the urge to fix it if you ever want him to stop putting you in this situation. Obviously protect yourself wherever you need to and however you can but let him deal with the problem.
I know you’ve said you will already so I hope you don’t think I’m insinuating you are doing things wrong - just sharing my experience of how taking the controls when things went bad only made things worse for me in the long run, I should have disengaged early on somehow and stopped seeing us as a unit with a problem I needed to fix. It never solved the problem, just covered over it for a while.