DH angry with me over debt - not sure it's all my fault

[tablemab]

Hi,
DH and I have both not been great with money in the past. We fell into the high income high debt trap, living well beyond our means for years. we earn well - joint income is £115K gross. We have a mortgage, 2 kids etc

For the last couple of years I have tried to take control of our finances. I am no expert, but I am good with a spreadsheet!! I have tried to manage things, and DH has let me get on with it, generally showing zero interest. We haven't accrued much additional debt, and I have tried to move debt around to better interest rates etc. I just get on with it and don't really speak to DH about it. Definitely a lack of communication on both sides.

Our debt level is massive - we owe £75K ish on top of our mortgage. Despite this, I have made sure that everything is up to date and that interest is reduced as much as possible. I also have a plan in place to clear this within the next 5 years.

On Saturday I showed DH the spreadsheet and he freaked out at how much we owe, telling me that I had deceived him and that he had no idea it was so bad. My issue is that he is treating it as though this is just MY debt!! He said that he knew we had a lot of debt but not that much! ( I haven't told him that the £75k doesn't include HIS car).

Now I accept that perhaps I should have tried harder to engage him the money management, but I don't really feel that it's fair to lay all of the blame on my for a situation that was very much a joint effort! AIBU??

Based on what you are saying

1. You are your partner are impulsive addicted spenders
2. You are living at least £36k above your means
3. In order to maintain this lifestyle, you need to earn at least £72k more per annum (assuming half gone in tax)
4. You need to stop moving the chairs on the titanic at this stage. The 0% switching option will soon run out either one because of your credit record or a general economic recession where credit will dry up
5. If you have £3k after bills & payments spare, then you can turn it around
6. I'm not sure if you can do it by yourselves given how you got here & even if you can an experienced debt expert, will manage to help you do it but quicker & cheaper.
7. I really think you need to engage one ss soon as possible of you can't devise a spteadsheet/budget that gets you debt free in max 3 years,by this weekend
8. Control it now before it controls you permanently- a job loss, an illness , a divorce or even a sharp recession will ruin you long term - you need to act now while there's still a way out

Why if you have £3k disposable income is the debt increasing? extras like carpets shouldn't need put on credit cards.
What are you doing with the £3k every month?

We pay £426 a month towards our debt of £14k.

Dave Ramsey and I would disagree on lots of things (most things actually he’s kind of a dick) but the “snowball method” actually works. Before it was £80 x 4 credit cards, my loan (£180 p/m) and his loan (£50 p/m). This was all to tide us over during rough times and it all went on bills and emergency dental work.

Trust me! As you pay something off for the last time it feels so good that you want to keep doing it. Spreadsheets are great but that dopamine hit is better!

I reckon we can knock it all out in about 2 more years. Keep going OP!!!

OP did explain a while back that it’s only become 3k disposable after a recent increase in income.

Not in same situation, no. We earn less and have a much bigger mortgage (live in a b expensive city), but we have money in the bank - since DC have been at school we've been able to save about £12k a year. Luckily DH and I are both fairly frugal with similar attitudes to money and consumerism these days - in my 20s I spent everything I had and more. We treat ourselves in small ways but keep a tight lid on it. I think it would be hard if one of us was a big spender.

Good luck with paying it off - with hard saving you could make a huge dent in it within a year or two.

You're both going to have to agree on no more new things, holidays and luxuries. You have to stick to it no matter what. Pay off the debt every month with out fail. Every 3 months check the debt balance. Otherwise it's going to grow even bigger.

@RawBloomers
I asked the question as they now have £3k spare but need to figure out how to pay, no wonder they're in this mess with this attitude.
I need to sit down with DH and look at how we can best use the other 3k to pay this off quicker.
How is this even a question? use as much as possible, £260 pm isn't getting rid of the debt.

Can you look back and work out how your debt started?

We had a long conversation last night about it all. A sensible chat with no arguing!

We have some child free time later this week so we are going to sit down and try to put together a proper budget. We want it to be challenging so that the debt paid asap, but also sustainable

Well done 👏

We are going to aim for a 2.5 year journey but we would also like to build a bit of a savings buffer too. This means that we will need to clear about 2.5K off the main debt, plus increase the car payment.

We also want to retain a SMALL amount of money for family fun. There won't be any holidays or expensive trips etc but I don't think its realistic for us to not have a day out, or the odd meal on one of our birthdays etc. Is that realistic or are we still not getting it?

Where has the spare £3k been going a month????

You need to really revisit every aspect of your spending.

Erm, it depends what your level of discipline is like. To my ear, it sounds like when I'm on a diet and decide to have just one piece of cake and so begins the great decline into eating all the nice things again. Thank God I'm better with money 🤦🏼‍♀️

Sounds reasonable, cutting the budget to the point where your existence is miserable isn’t sustainable. You do still need a “fun” budget, albeit much reduced. Well done - the initial acknowledgement of the problem is often the hardest.

We also want to retain a SMALL amount of money for family fun. There won't be any holidays or expensive trips etc but I don't think it’s realistic for us to not have a day out, or the odd meal on one of our birthdays etc. Is that realistic or are we still not getting it?

Unexpected expenses will always crop up. Attending a wedding, a school trip, birthdays etc. I therefore feel that “small amount” and “day out” need to be clearly defined and budgeted for in advance.
It’s too easy to fritter away money otherwise.

1. you will need to make a list of what is or isn’t essential and you will both need to agree. And memorise the list. Not on the list? Not happening. Unless it’s in your budget.

and

1. Put a certain amount (let’s say £30) a week in an envelope. That’s £120 a month, which is more than enough for the odd meal out. That is your „fun money“ budget.

Anything non-essential? That’s what the envelope is for.
Can’t afford it? Then no, you won’t get it.

And write down when you or your DH take money from the envelope (date, amount, reason). And whenever you wanted to spend money but couldn’t due to insufficient envelope funds.

It’s an east way to visualise where your money is going (or would have been going).

It really sounds like you’ve been spending £3k a month on your fun stuff and treats.

Do you understand that you need to cut that down to maybe £100 for one dinner out or take away?

With £3k leftover each month, you should have piles of savings already. You need to massively cut back.

We are not talking here about this kind of debt- but debt accrued through totally ott lifestyle. OK, will get flamed here- but to some extent, perhaps lifestyle is also an issue with much of student debt. Many trips abroad, festivals, clubbing, take-aways on reg basis (running a car, etc).

Well done OP. Sounds like a good plan.
Regarding the "fun money" I would define a figure, as someone suggested put it in an envelope. A VERY SMALL amount. If you didn't need it for repairs or a kids last minute invitation to parties etc then and only then get that take away or go for coffee and cake that weekend.
Think that it is the small nice things, a coffee here, a meal there, a new dress on sale, that cause people to get into debt. Would be a good idea to sit down again and redefine a concrete plan for budgeting "fun money".

Personally, I'd think with a debt of this size you need to dedicate every spare penny to this debt, I think you're still not being realistic, you have £3000 disposable income!!
Keep £100pm for fun, £250om for emergencies and everything else to the debt, unless you make substantial payments you're never going to be rid of it.

Exactly. In addition, student fee debt operates like a graduate tax in relation to your finances. If you lose your job you don't default on it like credit card debt.

Sounds like OP is moving in the right direction. Hopefully when they start tackling it properly together they will get the savings bug!

I think in your situation I would be more detailed about family fun. Work out what you think you might do with that money (e.g 1 day out per month) and put estimated costs on it for travel/ tickets/ food etc.

Then you will know if the amount of money is realistic compared to your ideas.

Yes, OP, if you’re going down to zero fun money spent, you will encounter budget burnout. Long-term, you need to budget in some fun money for your own sanity, but it should be scaled waaaay back, and needs to be funded through cash or debit cards, rather than on credit. I would recommend watching some of the ‘Real Life Budget’ videos on The Budget Mom’s YouTube channel. She was a single mum who got herself out of 77k of debt. Lots of great resources on her website.

As everyone else has said, you have a high income and should be in a great position OP to live a nice lifestyle and save lots, but clearly you’ve been living above your means and burying your head in the sand about it!

Hopefully you can set up a realistic budget, still live your lives with some small treats, and get debt free as soon as possible! Then you can really focus on building up some decent savings and investments

I don’t think it’s solely your responsibility at all, but you and DH both need to be disciplined and on the same page

Another suggestion OP. Look for inspiration for the next 2 and a half years of spending zero.
Myself and my husband had the objective from the start of clearing the mortgage ASAP (we have good incomes both) and put every spare penny into clearing it. Maybe looked odd from outsiders but cannot care less.
I found some inspiration from The Minimalists (see Netflix). I stopped feeling I was missing out. I love not buying stuff that clutters my house. I love having just what I need in my wardrobe.
Now that we finally cleared the mortgage, I STILL love not buying stuff. It's magic not wanting stuff. Since not having the mortgage we go travelling with the kids and pay for experiences we love and there are lots of money for it. I highly recommended.
Try to find inspiration in a new lifestyle OP.