DH angry with me over debt - not sure it's all my fault

[tablemab]

Hi,
DH and I have both not been great with money in the past. We fell into the high income high debt trap, living well beyond our means for years. we earn well - joint income is £115K gross. We have a mortgage, 2 kids etc

For the last couple of years I have tried to take control of our finances. I am no expert, but I am good with a spreadsheet!! I have tried to manage things, and DH has let me get on with it, generally showing zero interest. We haven't accrued much additional debt, and I have tried to move debt around to better interest rates etc. I just get on with it and don't really speak to DH about it. Definitely a lack of communication on both sides.

Our debt level is massive - we owe £75K ish on top of our mortgage. Despite this, I have made sure that everything is up to date and that interest is reduced as much as possible. I also have a plan in place to clear this within the next 5 years.

On Saturday I showed DH the spreadsheet and he freaked out at how much we owe, telling me that I had deceived him and that he had no idea it was so bad. My issue is that he is treating it as though this is just MY debt!! He said that he knew we had a lot of debt but not that much! ( I haven't told him that the £75k doesn't include HIS car).

Now I accept that perhaps I should have tried harder to engage him the money management, but I don't really feel that it's fair to lay all of the blame on my for a situation that was very much a joint effort! AIBU??

I really don't think there's much different between 60k and 75k. It would be different if he thought it was 10k and it was 75k. He's overreacting. If he cared that much he should have taken an interest a lot sooner.

Surely you are both to blame, not just you. And how did he think the new bed and carpets - and the holiday - would be paid for? By the fairies magic money tree? You are both old enough to know that buying new things = money spent! Ok, perhaps it doesn't seem like that when you aren't paying with hard cash, but this is now reality time, and steps need to be taken before you're faced with more serious consequences. Have you taken any debt/budgeting advice? Sounds like you need to - and quickly.

Yes yiu definitely need to budget and cut out anything that isn’t necessary and get that debt down fast

Well, there are two issues here.

The first is communication. I don’t think you have done anything wrong; it is equally his debt and he is shooting the messenger.

As for the debt itself, it is £85k. This is quite a lot, but far from insurmountable in your situation. Over 5 years, it is probably around £20k/annum, depending on the interest rate, or less than 2k/month.

I would disagree with a previous poster. Unless you have lots of 0% deals, the cheapest way to borrow is a mortgage and the second an agreed overdraft. I would leave the 0% stuff alone and put as much as possible into a second mortgage. Whatever you can’t, get an agreed overdraft. Credit card rates are close to usury and you need to avoid these at all costs.

There is no shame in debt, but eventually you have to pay it off. Unless you expect your income to radically increase, or are coming into money, the sooner the better.

I would tell your husband the full debt including the car asap. Waiting will make things uncomfortable all over again in a couple of weeks. I wound get it all over with now, so you can both move forward. It sounds like you have a good chunk left each month so will be able to reduce it quite quickly.

My Dh was in a similar level of debt (percentage wise to his earnings) when I met him and struggling under crippling interest payments, we came up with a plan together and he is now debt free and has savings. I know you said you don't want anyone to know, but sometimes you need someone to give you a talking to and to keep you on track, especially if you are both as bad as you say!

A few things to think about, drop the 0% cards to the very minimum payment, concentrate any extra money on the loans and high interest debt, if you have an overdraft, get it paid off and close it.

Do not close any credit cards, as when they are paid you will get automatic 0% balance offers or cash transfer offer to move the debt around, so cut up the cards/hide them, whatever you need to do but KEEP THE CREDIT FACILITY until you have this under control.

Whilst you are still paying interest.. DO NOT accumulate any more debt, and especially don't use 0% cards for purchases as the interest on those will be charged every month until you've paid off the 0% portion, it's a bit of a trap that people fall into, so keep your 0% as just that, a loan facility.

But so is she to some extent.

She told him the debt is £75k when it isn't, its £75k plus car debt.

She had been moving debt around rather than actively paying it off and indeed debt has increased.

It isn't everyone who buys into a high income high debt lifestyle. Many do live within their means and not everyone goes into debt for furnishings and holidays.

I think you need to sit back down and go through the full finances, OP and work out a way to start actually paying it off and budgeting better to cut outgoings down to assist a quicker repayment.

Is that £3 spare after all essential spending? If you put all of that towards your debt it will be gone in just over 2 years.

Managing it shouldn't be too difficult. Pay the most expensive debt off first and work your way through it that way.

Intrigued as to how you got to this position, it's a lot more than a few carpets and a holiday...

£3k not £3 😀

How much was the carpet that you needed to borrow instead of just paying for it

In terms of other people in this level of debt - money saving expert has a forum called Debt Free Wannabe. That's got other people in your level of debt.

It's worth a visit, the people there are harsh but fair and helpful.

They'll ask you to prepare a Statement of Affairs showing income, expenditure, debts and assets. It's a pain but with doing. There's a template on the boards somewhere.

While you're getting to grips with your debt, take a look at your regular spending, too.

Do you shop around for things like car and home insurance, broadband etc or do you just renew with the same company? How much could you reduce your shopping bill by? Are you spending regularly on meals out or takeaways? Do you have regular salon appointments that you could cut back on? Do you actually watch all the tv services you pay for?

It can sometimes be a useful exercise to spend a month living like a pauper. Don't buy anything that isn't essential, where there's a cheaper alternative or where spending can be deferred. It often makes people realise that they'e actually been wasting a fair bit of money.

You’ve been trying to sort it. More than he’s done. You’re not his mother. Hope you get free of it soon.

https://www.stepchange.org/

The bit that stands out to me is that you added new carpets, a new bed and a holiday towards your not insignificant debt recently. You’ve said your mortgage is low, wages are good and PP’s have worked out you have around £3k each month after paying the essentials. So you are still living way beyond your means if you had to add those things to your overall debt.

I think you need to try and adopt a different mindset. No more “fuck it” moments because you will just keep adding to the debt and it’ll get harder to get it under control. Most people go without if they can’t afford something but I understand it’s easy to stick it on a credit card and worry about it later. I’m certainly not judging but I do worry you may not have the debt as under control as you think.

How old are the children?

Have you heard of the snowball method?

I totally agree. We can't afford any more f**k it moments! I am ashamed to say this but here goes..... I sometimes think/thought that because we earn well we 'deserved' it. I know how stupid that sounds now

You both need to sit down, with bank statements a list of outgoings, incomings and using the citizen advise budget planner - go through it and add everything up.

The both of you need to jointly come up with a plan of attack to reduce this debt.

Its no good one person doing it and the other then complaining that its not doe to their liking etc

both of you need to tackle this together and communicate about what you both do.

On a high income, if you really cut back hard, you may be able to pay this off in far less than 5 years.

Look up the advice on Money Saving Expert, for a start. And from now on, tackle the problem together.

If you can throw £2k a month at the debt, starting with the highest interest rates, it will shrink at an encouraging rate.

If you can swap to much cheaper cars at an appropriate moment for the contract (and don't be misled by sunk costs), that'll help so much. And if you really want to fix the problem quickly, consider downsizing or moving to a cheaper area.

If you need encouragement and rewards, allow yourself £100 for a meal out, for every £2500 you reduce the debt by, or something that appeals to you.

Good luck, and please please be honest and open with each other and work on this together.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/debt-and-money/budgeting1/work-out-your-budget/

here is the link to the budget from citizen advice

its extra good as you can change the time frame to yearly or monthly, four weekly etc and then at the end it'll work it all out for you

If you go onto MSE you will see the reason no one ever agrees to turning unsecured debt into secured is because you are literally risking the roof over your head.

If you increase your mortgage by £100k to clear credit card debts not only is it more expensive because you are paying over 30+years rather than 5 or 6 but also if you lose your job and are unable to pay your mortgage the consequences are repossession. If you lose your job and can't pay credit cards or unsecured loans there is literally nothing they can do other than trash your credit record which is no bad thing for people who rely on credit all the time.

It is very bad advice to suggest turning unsecured debt into secured by putting it on a second mortgage. In all likelihood it would not be agreed anyway as any type of debt consolidation assumes the loan is in addition to existing debt as there is no mechanism for checking people do what they say they will with loan proceeds.

I expect you are in a situation were you are surrounded by people who earn a similar income and can comfortably live the kind of lifestyle that has plunged you into debt. It's like a comfort blanket giving a false sense of security that these things are for you too.

But there's a big difference between income and wealth- and people won't tell you about all their unearned leg ups because everyone is the hero in their own story.

I think it’s time to move on and not work out who’s blaming who. Just say sorry to him (you should have been clearer). But also point out that he wasn’t interested. Then you need to move forward, together, quickly to clear the debt together. Going round about who’s fault it is isn’t going to clear the debt…

Currently my husband and I have around £68k worth of debt. We earn Aprroxinately £52k pa between us.

Quote 'There is no shame in debt'

I am sorry, but I disagree.

I don’t think this is stupid at all, I think majority of people think that certain salaries should be reflected in a certain “matching” lifestyle. Hence why there is so much debt around. It is also illustrated in all the threads where people on £100k salaries are perceived by others as very rich. They really aren’t and your example proves that the salary is not enough to “have it all”. My DH and I earn much more than you (close to 200k) and we drive 20 year old cars. We realised some time ago that we can’t afford everything so in our example we prioritise holidays. I believed with our salaries we deserved things too until we realised we had 8 credit cards between us and were heading down a dangerous slope. It’s probably your wake up moment so don’t beat yourself up. For me the way to think about it is We earn a lot but not enough to afford this (if it needs to go on credit).