DH angry with me over debt - not sure it's all my fault

[tablemab]

Hi,
DH and I have both not been great with money in the past. We fell into the high income high debt trap, living well beyond our means for years. we earn well - joint income is £115K gross. We have a mortgage, 2 kids etc

For the last couple of years I have tried to take control of our finances. I am no expert, but I am good with a spreadsheet!! I have tried to manage things, and DH has let me get on with it, generally showing zero interest. We haven't accrued much additional debt, and I have tried to move debt around to better interest rates etc. I just get on with it and don't really speak to DH about it. Definitely a lack of communication on both sides.

Our debt level is massive - we owe £75K ish on top of our mortgage. Despite this, I have made sure that everything is up to date and that interest is reduced as much as possible. I also have a plan in place to clear this within the next 5 years.

On Saturday I showed DH the spreadsheet and he freaked out at how much we owe, telling me that I had deceived him and that he had no idea it was so bad. My issue is that he is treating it as though this is just MY debt!! He said that he knew we had a lot of debt but not that much! ( I haven't told him that the £75k doesn't include HIS car).

Now I accept that perhaps I should have tried harder to engage him the money management, but I don't really feel that it's fair to lay all of the blame on my for a situation that was very much a joint effort! AIBU??

@caringcarer aren't you a fantastic sister 😃. A very useful breakdown of tips there. I'm not in dept, but looking to save more. Thank you

So you borrowed money to go on Holiday ?

Yep, this was me and my DH almost identically. He was on £100k and I was on about £20k working part time around kids.

Our mortgage was also around £600pm (for a 4 bed detached).

We didn't have a single thing to show for it - were just terrible with money, used to fail to meal plan and buy all of our food shop from the Tesco Express over the road. No foreign holidays, no home improvements (there is a back story to this relating to neurodivergence and mental health).

But we just snowballing debt and DH always used to boast what a high earner he was while I sat there feeling ashamed of how much debt we had and how we never had holidays or a decent house or anything, really.

I don't think our debt was as high as yours, possibly more like 40k, we kept consolidating credit cards into loans.

And then...last November, DH and I split unexpectedly and all the chickens came home to roost.

Most of the loans were in H's name, but I was on one of them. I have 8k of unsecured debt in my name alone, which maybe doesn't sound too bad but I earn 20k and have 2 DC and really no way of paying that off. H has the rest of the debt.

The ironic thing is we are both now absolutely fine for money. We were stuck in a horrible codependent enabling trap which was a big part of why I ended the relationship.

Ignore the posters who want you to feel ashamed, they're carrying their own baggage. Just focus on the way forward.

She's quite clearly said that is the case, so either you struggle with reading comprehension or are trying to make the OP feel bad. When she's on a thread asking for support.

I'd ask what drew you to make this comment?

I'd like to know this too, @Aj485

How on earth have you allowed your level of debt to reach £75k on your salaries.You both need to accept responsibility. Its absolutely crazy. You need to get a grip on spending. How are you going to pay that debt off, I cant see how, unless you remortgage if there is enough equity in your house.

It was a genuine question born of intrigue.

When a family with a modest gross income of 115K run up in excess of 70K of debt through living beyond their means, they're not the only victims of their carelessness.

This is exactly the type of lifestyle which drives inflation and property prices to their recent levels, yet very often it's the same people complaining about the increased cost of their weekly shop and wondering how they're going to afford to keep a roof over their heads now that their 5 year fixed 1.4% mortgage is coming to an end. Not to mention declaring a "cost of living crisis" ... Maybe more of a "Cost of other people living beyond their means" crisis", which we're all paying for.

They caused it themselves !

Hope you're not accountants.........

It was a disingeneous question because you already knew the answer. Why not admit you've just popped along to kick the OP while she's down? Which you now have done.

Honestly, people who can't just admit that they revel in other people's misery and try to dress it up as something else really grind my gears.

But…. You sort of do. With £3k left after bills and everything each month, you should be able to have a holiday and a new bed without using credit. So where is your money going?

The issue is that you’re probably pissing it uk the wall in dribs and drabs instead of actually budgeting. Doesn’t matter what you earn; to have the treats, you do still need a budget for everyday things.

You don't know anything about me. Feel free to continue to irrelevantly judge away, but I'm really not interested.

Maybe you could start a new thread about people who really grind your gears if they have such a profound affect on you, since both myself and I suspect the OP would much prefer to stick to the thread topic.

Despite being good with a spreadsheet, you seem to be shuffling debt around rather than reducing it - I suspect your husband thought that you were cutting debt rather than increasing it. His fault if he's not bothered, but definitely not enough communication.

You seem to want to reduce or even clear your debt, and reducing interest is definitely a good way forward. You earn more than enough to pay bills and even have some for a bit of luxury, but you need to throw everything else at clearing the debt. There are online calculators that will work out a plan to snowball your debts - it's very satisfying to see them gradually get paid off.

But it needs a be a joint plan - you both need to agree on what you're prepared to give up. And you have to stop spending - not just not taking on new debt, but also not living within your means but way below it. Moneysavingexpert has a debtfree board - definitely a supportive place with lots of ideas and information.

"since both myself and I suspect the OP would much prefer to stick to the thread topic."

The thread topic of your personal attacks thinly guised as spurious economic theory?

Feel better for that comment?

I'm fine, thanks for asking

You need to see a financial advisor.
Some banks will help and some chariites.
You both need to reign in the spending, big time, and prove to your selves that you can clear the 75 and built a small emergency nest egg as well as meeting payments on your cars and house.
Ask your advisor how to clear the excess debt in four years and both commit to the plan. It could mean no holidays, no eating out, buying second hand clothing and furniture etc.

It's good you are now both aware there is significant debt to pay down. Hopefully once he's calmed down you can look at it together and agree on a plan.

I would start by looking at where your money goes and look for any possible savings. Often it's the small regular spends that add up. Or maybe there is insurance you can review. It all adds up.

Cut up your credit cards and use a credit debit card instead.

Are there a number of different debts? If so start with targeting the smallest loan and throw as much money at it as you can while paying minimum payments on the other debt. Once that's paid off target the second smallest debt and so on. This way you will quickly see progress rather than feel like it's an endless insurmountable thing.

I would also check your credit rating as lots of credit card applications wood really be impacting your score and likelihood of approval of future loans.

And have a savings account to save for holidays / home improvement etc. you can do that alongside reducing the debt.

Have a sit down look at your money together each month so you are on the same plan and you don't have to carry worry alone.

This sounds really scary. Hope they have it under control now.

Use that £3k spare a month to pay off as much as you can. Start with the most expensive debt and get it all down as soon as possible.

I think the main problem here is that you think you are high earners. You’re not. (Not being unkind, I’m not either!).
£115k p/a is comfortable. Enough for a nice house hopefully and treats and hobbies. It should be very possible to live very happily on that income, but you can’t live the life of Riley.
stop thinking ‘we earn well so we deserve it’.
There’s nothing moral about the amount of money you earn. It’s just a number, and you need to live within it.

You amazing, helpful sister!

Bravo, and how sensible and committed to financial security you encouraged your sister's family to become.

You changed lives, you wonderful person.

Sincerely, you deserve a medal, caringcarer.

Shame is the emotion that stops us making silly decisions. Shame is what would have prevented your debt getting this bad.

Not necessarily. For me it would be fear. Being in debt would terrify me.

@girlswillbegirls it was so scary. They are mid 70s now and haven’t done it again. But they are having a fairly miserable retirement (no holidays, barely meals out, no hobbies, watching every penny for heating and food etc) because they have no financial cushion to fall back on, that 130k was just spent on a whole lot of nothing.

Hi, op! We've not got anything like the amount if debt you have, but we earn far, far less.
Things I've learnt and done to help get out of it...
Had an honest, ongoing conversation with my partner. He's a 'head in the sand' guy, the debt generally comes from him just not paying attention. So, we now catch up weekly, if not more often, to talk about our finances and check in on each other.
We now have separate accounts for everything. Food, petrol, bills etc. When we get paid, I split everything out into the 'pots' to help control spending.
I order food weekly, so it stops us heading for take aways or the corner shop.
We allow for some socialising. We budget for holiday. It prevents those 'fuck it' moments.
I go onto the bank where my credit card debt is every single day. And every single day I make a payment. It might be a few pounds, it might be 20 or 30. I assess what's spare and pay something. It just feels good to know it's being chipped away.
Sell everything you no longer need. It's amazing how much stuff you accumulate.
Try to earn more money.
For us, i prefer short term challenges. A no spend day. Earn an extra £10 a day fir a month. Have a 'use only whats in the kitchen cupboards' week.
Accept that it's going to take work, but it can be done.

I agree shame is not helpful, we have moved on from the time of the father of Charles Dickens being sent to the Marshalsea debtors prison, but 85K (including the car loan) on top of your mortgage is a huge amount of debt on a joint income of 115K. You sound very casual about it. I think you both need to sit down with someone from an organisation such as Step Change or Christians Against Poverty to make a plan that works for you.