DH angry with me over debt - not sure it's all my fault

[tablemab]

Hi,
DH and I have both not been great with money in the past. We fell into the high income high debt trap, living well beyond our means for years. we earn well - joint income is £115K gross. We have a mortgage, 2 kids etc

For the last couple of years I have tried to take control of our finances. I am no expert, but I am good with a spreadsheet!! I have tried to manage things, and DH has let me get on with it, generally showing zero interest. We haven't accrued much additional debt, and I have tried to move debt around to better interest rates etc. I just get on with it and don't really speak to DH about it. Definitely a lack of communication on both sides.

Our debt level is massive - we owe £75K ish on top of our mortgage. Despite this, I have made sure that everything is up to date and that interest is reduced as much as possible. I also have a plan in place to clear this within the next 5 years.

On Saturday I showed DH the spreadsheet and he freaked out at how much we owe, telling me that I had deceived him and that he had no idea it was so bad. My issue is that he is treating it as though this is just MY debt!! He said that he knew we had a lot of debt but not that much! ( I haven't told him that the £75k doesn't include HIS car).

Now I accept that perhaps I should have tried harder to engage him the money management, but I don't really feel that it's fair to lay all of the blame on my for a situation that was very much a joint effort! AIBU??

You need to work out exactly where all the money is going - given your mortgage and income you are massively overspending somewhere and you need to work out where
what mobile deals you have - can you move to sim only/cut back on data
what streaming services you have

can you sell anything etc
whay interest rates you have
cars - how many what size etc
takeaways/eating out meal planning
do you big shop or small shop

it is going to be a long hard slog and setting aside some for a saving buffer plus a small amount for treats and clearly define what they are. A coffee treat can add up

I would massively prioritise reducing the debt rather than building up savings. You have so much more disposable income than most. Just hammer the debt with it.

I agree with other posters that you need to be very specific about "fun money". The envelope idea is great. Anything "fun" needs to be booked in the calendar in advance and budgeted for. Avoid spur of the moment spending. Plan each day - if you're going for a day out take sandwiches and a flask rather than eating at the cafe. If you want a nice night on a Friday evening buy some ingredients to cook something a bit different than usual rather than getting a takeaway - will probably taste nicer too. Get rid of things like gym memberships for a bit and go walking instead. Every penny counts. With debt of this size I really think you have to take it very seriously and be firm with yourselves. It won't be forever, but change won't happen without change in your lifestyle.

I just feel really sorry for you. I’m in about £5800 of debt, and I can’t sleep over it. I’ll get it paid off but I was sick for a while and being self employed, I just had no income. So now I’ve got this debt and two kids and I’m a single parent and it does cause me sleepless nights. My kids wanted a Chinese takeaway the other week and I had to say no, because it wasn’t part of the “fun money” budget for this month.

And then I see a couple like you with a hundred grand a year between you, and you’re just piling on the debt because you “deserve nice things.” You do deserve things, but only when you can actually afford them by budgeting. I don’t know how you can be going through £3k a month on…. Nothing.

Thanks for all of the messages. I have felt awful today - tearful and shaky, Very very unlike me. I think that perhaps the enormity of what we are up against has just hit me. Feel like I want to hide away for a couple of days, but I know that we need to sort this.

I run my own business so we are growing this and will increase the income. We have moved some around to 0% etc so am paying it off now rather than just treading water.

You've taken the first step of addressing the problem so be proud of that. It's a lot of debt but you very much have the means to pay it off, so the situation could be a lot worse. It just requires some sustained effort for the next few months and the figure will come down gradually.

Definitely agree with the shift in outlook- look at FIRE resources- financial independence, retire early. It’s about maximising income, minimising outgoings. You get to a point where you really need very little to live on which means all your money becomes fun money!

One way to avoid budget burnout is to alternate months- have a really strict month with no treats followed by a more relaxed month. You still don’t blow everything in the relaxed month, but you appreciate it more after the stringent month!

So January you spend nothing. February you have £200 fun budget. March you have nothing, and so on.

With Christmas, you may feel you can have a stringent January and February, and only relax in April.

Maybe picnics and walks are enough for you for fun in May, June and July, but you need to spend a bit for August.

I’m the money person in our household and I get your frustration.

I started to leave the monthly bank statements on our dining table (specifically his place mat) as they come in, plus any new agreements with the bank when we have re-fixed loans coming off the previous fixed rate. Where we live interest rates have increased substantially so there’s big changes.

I caught DH pushing them aside one day so I asked him specifically if he had read the document. He hadn’t so I made a point of saying he should seeing he leaves it up to me.

(Although I always tell him when a loan is due for re-negotiation). He has got better now at looking at stuff but what I wanted to mention was making the monthly information available to read.

then there is no excuse for your OH to say he didn’t know !

I literally can not believe that when you have 75k worth of debt, and a car financed through debt that you then bought new carpets a new bed and a holiday and added that to the debt. What the fuck!!!!
my credit card has 1500 on it because I haven’t worked for a little while. And that is causing me so much panic. I literally can not imagine owing 75 thousand pounds PLUS a car and still thinking fuck it let’s go on holiday 🙈😳 this has blown my mind!!!

It’s not just your fault. It’s a joint thing. He needs to sit down with you and plan how best to pay back what you both owe. There are many debt agencies like Moneyhelper and national debtline that might be worth checking out, you might pick up a few tips. it’s a huge stress and it shouldn’t just sit on your shoulders. It sounds like you have a good combined income so just agree a budget for everything, and review your joint spending at the end of every week. And just keep telling yourself that you will get through it. Good luck.

Make sure that each month you pay the minimum amount plus the interest charged for the month on all debts. Then pay the balance of your funds to the debt with the highest interest rate. Clear that debt first then onto the next highest. It makes you feel like you’re getting somewhere if you know you’re not paying interest in the interest each month! Also by specifically targeting one debt you can clearly see that you are reducing your debt. If you just spread out the money over all the debts then you don’t really see the reduction. Good luck

Try not to feel anxious about it. You and DH are now in sync and appear to be determined to get your debt under control.

You can do this! You have the financial resource to do it. You have the motivation to do it.

Don't try to work out how to tackle it yourselves. Research tried and tested methods. I use YNAB as I find the discipline of different categories within the budget helps me to see where there's wastage.

You wont stick to this unless you have some fun money but you also need to limit the fun. You need to crawl through your spending questioning everything/ Why do you spend that, can you cut it back. You could list your outgoings here and people will then suggest things to cut out/reduce. Try and work out exactly what you spent your money on from the last year.

Was this post necessary?

Day out = picnic in the local park with a walk afterwards.

Birthday meal out = McDonalds!!

It can be done, but you have to live within your means.

WTF?

You live within your means and you earn £115K.

It's not rocket science.

You work out your monthly basics to live (Mortgage, bills, financial commitments - and car)

You work out your debts (the stuff you borrowed, loaned, furniture and car on hire purchase)

You're obviously in debt - so you work out how much you can commit to paying off that debt.

What's left is what you can spend.

But I'd seriously recommend you two people put a stop on your social lives and clothes shopping and eating out and make up buying and electronic games buying and anything else until you pay off your debts and work out what your disposable income is.

Good luck. You can do this.

A pp compared it to trying to lose weight and I think it is a bit. Because you are ready to act but that action all consists of not doing something (spending/ eating). And you want to do something.

What you can do to be in control is lean into the spreadsheets. You can know every last penny of what you are spending and what you have spare. That's power.

@tablemab well done for realising there is an issue. Suggest you join money saving expert and the debt free wannabe board. The stories on there are inspirational. Set up a spreadsheet for all of your debt (include all of the interest rates and the dates and fixed deals come to an end) and also a years worth of monthly spreadsheets that will include all of your income and outgoings including debt repayments.

Remember to include yearly bills such as insurance on the monthly spreadsheet. That way you can see well in advance when things are due. Set budgets for groceries and drop a brand. Ensure you get value from every penny and look for promotions. Once you can see how a bit of effort can have an impact you will be very motivated. Ensure you review and update your spreadsheets weekly so that nothing is forgotten. Make sure your husband is involved too rather than leaving it all to you. Good luck!

Well done on getting to this point, this sounds like a good plan, but you must be strict on the fun days, set a budget and not go over that.

I nearly fainted when I saw an overnight plus day pass Legoland would cost £450, plus I'd need to buy all food and treats for DC. I can afford it, but as I've got some other stuff I need to spend money on I didn't do that, and I took DC to the Science Museum instead.

It's very very easy to spend at least £250 on a day out for a family of 4 once you factor in ticket costs and eating out while there. Although your income says you can afford this, your debt level means you can't at the moment.

So you need to limit the fun outings to things that are cheaper (museums, parks, National Trust membership), then take a packed lunch with you.

Mortgage aside, you are earning a decent sum of money between you which should allow you to live comfortably without having to make major cutbacks. Maybe try living on one of your salaries whilst putting the other one into an account aimed at clearing the debt. It might also be worth trying to consolidate the debt into a second mortgage or adding it to your mortgage if you have the equity which is then paid for by the second account. There are plenty of households in the UK who have an income of £25K and are truly scraping by. If you need a holiday go to the Travelodge in Brighton for a few days!

I'm going against the grain here, and strongly suggest that you don't have "fun money". Holidays should be camping, and the cinema replaced with home movie night. Replace all activies with free ones e.g. walking and museums. You have to get rid of this enormous debt as quickly as possible.

Camping is only cheaper if you have the equipment to begin with though. You can sneeze in go-outdoors and drop a grand.

Haven't only read OP's posts and can see things have moved on, but this really jumped out at me. You can't begin to deal with this until it's all out on the table. It's not just your debt but for some reason you are managing his access to the knowledge about it- almost gatekeeping it- to avoid a negative reaction. I'm sure others have said this but you need to do this together and that includes joint access to all the relevant information. Put absolutely everything on the spreadsheet and upload it somewhere where you can both edit it eg Google docs. You both need to take responsibility for it. Then update it every 3 months as a new sheet so you can track what's happening over time.

Do you have people-pleasing or conflict-avoidant tendencies, OP? I think this is a personality type that can often get into a pickle with money because you don't want to say no, be the bad guy or deliver bad news. Total transparency is the way to go.

Whilst this is not a popular opinion I am also gobsmacked by the "fuck it" attitude. I suppose when you get to those types of figures you think a couple more grand isn't going to make much difference.

I say this as someone who got into about £15k of debt in my twenties, was useless with money and it was around the time store cards started to take off alongside credit cards. I managed to get out of it and have done for many many years but the sheer terror of being in debt was crippling. Glad you have decided to tackle this head on OP, once you can get a handle on it and start seeing it decrease it will become addictive I'm sure and the sense of relief will be amazing.

Your mortgage is very small for your incomes, so even with big unsecured debt you are better off than many (I work in financial services, high debt isn't uncommon, nor is it rare for one party to have their head in the sand about it)

Your commitments are very high though considering only £600 of it is mortgage- can't you do something with the expenses? Cheaper cars? I'm concerned when your next remortgage is due, if you are on a good rate at the moment it might not be so for much longer and you will want to have a robust plan in place for this time.

On the positives, on your healthy income you should be able to hammer this debt right down in even less time than you are planning, i am sure.