DH angry with me over debt - not sure it's all my fault

[tablemab]

Hi,
DH and I have both not been great with money in the past. We fell into the high income high debt trap, living well beyond our means for years. we earn well - joint income is £115K gross. We have a mortgage, 2 kids etc

For the last couple of years I have tried to take control of our finances. I am no expert, but I am good with a spreadsheet!! I have tried to manage things, and DH has let me get on with it, generally showing zero interest. We haven't accrued much additional debt, and I have tried to move debt around to better interest rates etc. I just get on with it and don't really speak to DH about it. Definitely a lack of communication on both sides.

Our debt level is massive - we owe £75K ish on top of our mortgage. Despite this, I have made sure that everything is up to date and that interest is reduced as much as possible. I also have a plan in place to clear this within the next 5 years.

On Saturday I showed DH the spreadsheet and he freaked out at how much we owe, telling me that I had deceived him and that he had no idea it was so bad. My issue is that he is treating it as though this is just MY debt!! He said that he knew we had a lot of debt but not that much! ( I haven't told him that the £75k doesn't include HIS car).

Now I accept that perhaps I should have tried harder to engage him the money management, but I don't really feel that it's fair to lay all of the blame on my for a situation that was very much a joint effort! AIBU??

YANBU, he's being a child. He ignored the situation for 2 years and left it all to you. It's not for you to give him a quarterly report on your joint finances like he's your boss. He should've involved himself from the start. He's got no excuse for suddenly freaking out.

You need to sit down and go thru it all together including the car stuff and figure out what it's costing you to service the debt

Is this all credit card debt? The highest interest form of debt. Rather than moving it around onto different credit cards you might be better off consolidating the lot, it will probably work out cheaper in the end. But you both need to be focussed and come up with a plan, not sweep it under the carpet and then have a hissy fit when it pokes its head back out again

So your in massive debt and still blowing money you don't have that you owe to others on completely unnecessary luxuries.

You don't really sound suitable to be in financial control.

OP I wouldn't wait two more weeks for this. I think part of the problem you are both into is the trying to avoid to hear how bad it is.
Just sit down with him and put the numbers out there including his car debt. If you can, track which part of the debt was generated by you and which part is his.

You are going to need drastic measures such us no holiday, possibly selling a second car if you can. No weekends away. No eating out. Only new clothes for children. Only money spent in necessities (Food and bills incl morgage) to pay that ASAP.

In the best possible way, please don't bury your head in the sand. And tell him to get a grip, he is an adult. Best of luck.

Can you increase the mortgage and take a hefty lump off the debt? Five years is a long time to have this hanging over you. You must really cut back on spending you have, to most people, a huge income. Pay off the expensive debt first and stop the luxuries you can't afford them.

Debts are very expensive things.

Regardless of how you got where you are, you need a proper plan. Shifting things around is no better than spinning plates - you're not doing anything material to the debt.

Start with the smallest debt you have and pay it off asap.

Then move to the next smallest.

This way you clear more (in number) debts faster than trying to evenly distribute all your repayments. It really helps you find a way forward, seeing the number of debts reduce. It means fewer things to keep straight in your head.

This does not mean you stop paying the minimum payments on other debts. It just means you focus on one debt at a time.

You will get there. See this as the wake up call you and your DH clearly very much needed. He's probably lashing out because he's frightened and I don't blame him. Stop worrying about whose fault it is, and start working together as a team to sort this out.

@ClawedButler Smallest debt might be nice psychologically. But, better is
Pay as much as possible on the most expensive debt (ie highest interest), and minimum repayments on the rest.
Once most expensive is paid off switch to next most expensive.
And so on.

Don't do smallest first do MOST EXPENSIVE first. You need to reduce as rapidly as possible the interest you are paying.

Thanks for all of the posts. I totally see my faults in this situation. My communication has been poor too. I think that the mistake I have made it trying to make it all ok. This has taken it's toll on me mentally and I am no longer willing to shoulder that burden alone. I agree that I should have forced the communication earlier.

Despite the debt being very high, I know that we are in a decent position to pay if off. We have a reasonable small mortgage (£600) and we don't live in a expensive part of the country. We take home about 7K each month and all of our mortgage, essential bills and minimum debt payments, food and fuel for the car comes to just under 4K. I need to sit down with DH and look at how we can best use the other 3k to pay this off quicker.

Part of this is just him freaking out because he hadn’t realised before and it’s a shock. You’ve had some time to get your head round it. He hasn’t.

Obviously, he’s wrong to blame you for the debt if that’s what he’s doing, but it sounds more like he just didn’t realise it was so bad and is blaming you for not telling him since you did know. That’s not entirely fair, as it’s his responsibility to work it out as much as it is yours, though I think the buying new stuff for the house and going on holiday without making it clear to him (if you knew at the time) was pretty poor.

You need to sit him down, remind him he spends the money too and get him up to speed with everything including the car. Give him a little time to let it sink in then, maybe next week, go over your proposal for how to pay it down and get him on board with a plan you can both agree on and both take responsibility for. And don’t spend anything other than regular bills between now and then.

Find Dave Ramsay on Facebook he's great with debt management advice. Bottom line is that you are actually broke. Your DH is is happy to spend and not take any responsibility. Hopefully he's on board now but I guess that you know you can't afford holidays and home improvements.

Out of interest - is anyone else dealing with debts of this sort of level? It's a very lonely place to be and I would love to be able to talk to others who are in the same boat. Nobody in RL knows about how much we owe and I certainly wouldn't want family and friends to know. I think that a lot of people have 'normal' levels of debt, but I sometimes feel like we are the most 'in debt' people in the village!!

I know that comparison is pointless, but It would be good to hear from others in a simian scenario.

There is no point in beating yourself up about what's done, OP, but you do need to have a clear plan in place to deal with the debt and you need to stick to it. It might be worth seeking some professional debt advice, though it does sound like you have quite a lot of disposable income that would enable you to make regular payments.

Your DH is every bit as responsible for the debt as you are. You both went on holiday/redecorated etc, and he bought a new car. As an adult, he should have thought about how it was going to be paid for and not just left it to you.

My concern would be how you're both going to be able to change your behaviour going forwards so that the debts get paid and don't mount up further. You can't really afford to have any more "fuck it" moments. Is there anyone who can help you learn how to budget properly?

I have been in debt in the past and I just minimised interest, kept chipping away at it and obviously never had any f**k it moments and bought new carpets, furniture and went on holiday!!!

If you were the only one who had visibility of the increasing debt you absolutely should have had a stop and think moment before any of these large purchases were made.

The same way I would expect dh to tell me if he noticed a problem with things he has taken responsibility for.

I notice you still haven’t said how much is owed on the car? Do you even know or is he hiding the information from you?

You need to add the car debt in. It might be psychologically bruising to admit you both owe over £100,000 (if you do but £30,000+ seems to be fairly standard these days) but you both seem to be hiding from the extent of your debt and that isn’t helpful.

That £600/month mortgage...is that at the current level of borrowing rate or is it still benefitting from a pre-October '22 rate?

if you weren’t telling him about the extra debt I can see why he’s cross. I would be.

How much is the car loan you haven't told him about?

Would you not blame yourself for having failed to take an equal share of the responsibility? I would!

I think you'd be surprised at how much debt people have. I have worked as a financial advisor and so many high earners are in the same situation. I would speak to a financial advisor if you can OP, often the way out is simpler than it seems especially if you have assets. Debt charities are great too but they tend to work with lower income individuals.
In general, people don't seem to be very money aware.

Surely he bought the car so he must alreasy know about the car loan?!

Presumably he is labouring under the assumption that it is included within the £75k debt and not additional to it

I'm completely torn here op. I'm in the money manager in our house, and I wouldn't take kindly to being blamed for joint expenditure just because I was the one bothering to track it.

But I do check in with oh every month - here's our savings, here's what we owe, here's the big spends I see coming up and how they could affect savings/debt.

I can sort of see how he could feel blindsided if he was oblivious and you told him you had it under control - I'd assume that meant it was moving downwards too unless I'd been told something to the contrary.

But, it was as much his job as yours to keep on top of it. You don't sound like you've been spenign family money in secret.

To be honest, I'd use this is an opportunity to make him share the mental load of managing the household money. Make him track and plan as much as you do. Or at least engage with you properly as you do it.

But surely if he was at all worried about the £75k debt - which he purported to be - the very first thing that he would have done would have been to unpick what was owed to whom and how the debts had mounted up. Isn't that a pretty basic response to discovering that you are in much more debt than you thought you were?

There is no safety in numbers.

https://www.moneyhelper.org.uk/en/everyday-money/credit/credit-card-calculator

You need to make a list of all the debts from highest interest rate to lowest.

Then transfer as much as possible to 0% credit cards providing that makes financial sense (there will be a transfer fee, it may not).

Then pay only the minimum amount on most of the debts and put all your spare cash into the debt with the highest rate. When it is paid off, close the account.

Repeat with the next highest interest rate, making sure to keep up the minimum repayments on the other debts - penalty fees won’t help.

The only exception is if you have anything on 0% finance. If you do, my understanding is that sometimes all the interest comes due if you don’t pay off the debt at the end of the 0% period. You therefore need to make sure you can pay those debts when they come due.