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Accused of financial abuse and theft by my sister

382 replies

Mayamymay · 29/12/2023 09:57

Hi, I hope you’ve all enjoyed Christmas. I actually thought I’d posted last night, but it’s nowhere to be seen!!

A few years ago I fell into some financial difficulties and had a lot of debt at high interest rates. My poor credit rating meant that I wasn’t able to move the debt to a cheaper option.

My parents are retired, comfortable with no debt, but by no means rich. I adore them both. They were keen to help and allowed me to take a loan and a few 0% cards (all with relatively low limits) in their names to save on interest costs. I manage the accounts Online and make the payments directly from my account. They are very clear that they’re pleased to help, but that they see it as their debt in name only. There is no cost to them whatsoever. The payments are made on time. I’ll occasionally use the cards if necessary. We’ve had the awful conversation about inheritance etc and I’ve been clear that if my parents died then any outstanding debt but be cleared from my share of the inheritance. My siblings would not be impacted whatsoever.

my sister has found out about our arrangement as has kicked off, accusing me of being a thief and a financial abuser. Our relationship has been strained for a while now. Dh says that she’s just spiteful and needs go fuck off, but she’s hit a nerve and I can’t stop crying.

is my husband right, and should have just ignore her?

OP posts:
PlacidPenelope · 29/12/2023 23:03

By the way @Mayamymay have you checked your and your parents credit scores recently?

Beeinalily · 30/12/2023 00:33

Talk about kicking someone when they're down! People here are being vile (and on other threads too). OP if my adult offspring had financial troubles I would be very pleased if I could help in any way, and I'd be happy that they felt they could talk to me about it. I honestly can't see that anyone is suffering from this arrangement, and there's no need to feel ashamed - money troubles can happen to anyone. Except apparently the judgmental people on here, who are in a bad mood because their diamond shoes are too tight!

LaughingCat · 30/12/2023 01:15

PlacidPenelope · 29/12/2023 20:12

Who would be chasing your dad for repayment if you defaulted or couldn't pay him back due to job loss, incapacity, etc.? Did your dad borrow the 30k in his name to give to you?

It wasn't the OP's 40k it wasn't even her parents 40k it is the loan company and the credit cards 40k and if the OP defaults or racks up more debt on those cards then it is not the OP who will be liable it is her parents.

Oh flipping heck - what was meant to be a passing comment, I’ll now need to unpack. My dad retired and had a few years left on his mortgage. Interest rates were low (those were the days!) and he was going to use his modest savings to pay off his mortgage while it made more financial sense to pay debts than collect minimal interest. Without the savings, he would have found it extremely difficult to make his mortgage payments on his pension

My (unmarried) partner and I were looking to buy a house together. I had a crummy credit rating and no real savings (courtesy of a cocklodger ex and poor choices regarding trust on my part).

My partner, on the other hand, had a good credit rating and owned the flat we lived in. While I had paid half the bills and a third of his mortgage for the 2.5 years I’d lived there with him, I didn’t see myself as having any claim and wanted him to keep that as his asset.

His mortgage was phenomenal (0.25% over BOE base rate variable, which at that time was 0%). He also had some money left to him when various relatives had died. With that money, he could afford to port the existing mortgage in his name to the house we wanted to buy, and own the flat outright (and rent it out to bring in some more money).

The bank, HSBC, at the time allowed him to port the mortgage in his name only (obviously, we’d have to remortgage for both of us to be on there). However, that mortgage was short by £50k.

Therefore, I asked my dad if I could borrow £30k as a deposit, and my OH got a higher fixed rate mortgage for the other £20k (my slowly improving but still crummy credit rating meaning we’d have a worse deal than just him alone).

My other half, also incredibly amazingly, was ok with me being named on the deeds, though not on the mortgage. HSBC tried to talk him out of it, to no avail. My dad lent me the £30k, and I transferred that into my OH’s account, to put down as a deposit. We had a contract drawn up by our conveyancer which set out my deposit and my other half’s contribution, and how we would split it should we split up, though she did say it could be overturned in court either way and wasn’t hugely enforceable.

So, my dad lent me his savings, which he could have used to pay his mortgage, relying on my repayments every month to help cover his remaining mortgage. On top of that, it went into my account, then my OH’s account and if anything happened to me, or we split up and my partner turned into a pillock…there was a chance it would be lost.

He did that after I went to see him, nervously, with a big file full of budget forecasts and backup plans to cover scenarios A, B, C, D through to Z. I was so scared and fully understood the enormity of what I was asking. I am beyond grateful he said yes. He said afterwards that it was the first time he’d seen a sign of adult decision-making, weighing up the pros and cons, asking for help in order to ensure that I had a stake in the house and relationship and making reasonable suggestions for repayments that didn’t overpromise. And avoided me going to a loan company that would have charged extortionate interest with my credit rating, if they lent at all.

And this is thing…if the OP was faffing about or taking the mick, I’d understand PPs comments like yours saying she’s taking advantage of her parents…but she’s not. They made a choice to take on the element of risk to help her. She’s shown she’s paying the debts back sustainably and regularly, and when the debts are finally fully paid down, she and her parents will be the closer for it.

She will always be grateful they helped her when she needed it, they will see the hallmarks of responsibility and maturity and cherish her all the more.

To call her a thief and an abuser is both demeaning to her parents, who took this decision of their own free will, and utterly crushing for the OP, who hasn’t done anything wrong.

WhereIsBebèsChambre · 30/12/2023 04:40

diefledermaus · 29/12/2023 21:24

If it's my money, I will spend it how I want it, and an adult child acting entitled to it would if anything make me want to spend their inheritance more Grin
Starting to wonder if you are the sister based on your OTT responses to the OP. She is clearly upset at the incorrect assumptions being made and you're continuing to go in on her!

Yes of course I'm ops sister 🙄 no one else in the world could think ops behaviour of continuing to spend and add debt in the parents name is reprehensible.

Janleeds · 30/12/2023 08:39

I have done a similar thing for my daughter. I’m 65 and semi-retired. No mortgage or other debts. Daughter (34) needed a loan to change her car and to clear some other debts. I took out a bank loan in my name for 7k at something like 3.9% along with a Barclaycard at 0% for a long period. Daughter set up a transfer to put the loan payment money into my account the day before it falls due. I don’t even think about it. she manages the credit card directly. As far as I’m concerned it’s her debt ( I know that legally/ in the eyes of the companies it’s mine- I’m not daft)

I was happy to help, if anything happened that meant she couldn’t pay then I’d either take over the payments, or clear it from my. Savings. It’s very unlikely that this will happen though.

i know that daughter has used the card to fund a hen weekend. I’ve no issue with this as she’s pays the bill! If she was using it lots, or using it to fund general expenses then I’d talk to her about it.

OP, what you have described is an arrangement between you and your parents. It’s not financially abusive whatsoever! Huge numbers of elderly parents will be helping their adult kids in different ways. Ignore the nasty comments on here and I agree that it’s not your sisters business. I have 2 other kids who are no aware of the arrangement with my daughter- I see it as confidential between the two of us.

tilsmumsy · 30/12/2023 08:56

Well of course other posters who've put their own debts onto their parents are going to agree with the OP... quelle surprise!!

Janleeds · 30/12/2023 09:00

tilsmumsy · 30/12/2023 08:56

Well of course other posters who've put their own debts onto their parents are going to agree with the OP... quelle surprise!!

Is this a response to my post? If so, my daughter ‘put her debts on to me’, not vice Verda A topic such as this will always divide opinion. I just don’t get the massive pile on that OP has experienced

DriftingDora · 30/12/2023 09:47

Methinks the OP is being somewhat disingenuous about this. And running to her father about the thread does not reflect well on her, although I'm sure she thinks it's some sort of justification. It isn't, because he may not (very probably doesn't) realise the full implications of what could happen if the OP defaults.

The OP and her husband don't come out of this at all well and everything that's been said seems to confirm it. You and your husband should learn to stand on your own feet, OP, not rely on others to bail you out. I don't blame your sister for feeling the way she does - how many times have you both been 'bailed out' in the past?

Mayamymay · 30/12/2023 10:04

DriftingDora · 30/12/2023 09:47

Methinks the OP is being somewhat disingenuous about this. And running to her father about the thread does not reflect well on her, although I'm sure she thinks it's some sort of justification. It isn't, because he may not (very probably doesn't) realise the full implications of what could happen if the OP defaults.

The OP and her husband don't come out of this at all well and everything that's been said seems to confirm it. You and your husband should learn to stand on your own feet, OP, not rely on others to bail you out. I don't blame your sister for feeling the way she does - how many times have you both been 'bailed out' in the past?

I am so exhausted with all of the criticism, but I will respond again

I didn't run to dad 'about the post'. I felt awful about it all yesterday so wanted to speak to him and talk about how to formalise it with something in writing. I was clearly stressed and upset and he asked me what was wrong - this is when I told him about the thread.

We have had never been bailed out prior to this

My parents are intelligent people and understand that they are liable for the debts if I stopped paying - I haven't and wouldn't do this.

We are trying to stand on our own two feet, however sometimes people need a little help and my parents were willing to do that for me.

OP posts:
TorringtonDean · 30/12/2023 10:35

What happens if you lose your job OP and your parents can’t make the payments? Their home could be at risk.

Have they offered any equivalent help to your sister or is she just expected to stand by and suck it up?

I do think this is abusive and emotionally blackmailing. You say she is “difficult”. Could that be just that she struggles with how you are manipulating your parents?

Speaking as the parent of young adults, I would always try to help them if they needed it but I’m not sure I’d get into credit card debt to do it. I’d rather offer practical support - at the moment they don’t have their own homes and of course living at home is subsidised. When older, I’d use any savings if able to but I wouldn’t issue credit cards to people with a bad credit rating!

EmpatheticAgain · 30/12/2023 10:43

I just wanted to say that your parents sound great.

NoSquirrels · 30/12/2023 10:45

Mayamymay · 30/12/2023 10:04

I am so exhausted with all of the criticism, but I will respond again

I didn't run to dad 'about the post'. I felt awful about it all yesterday so wanted to speak to him and talk about how to formalise it with something in writing. I was clearly stressed and upset and he asked me what was wrong - this is when I told him about the thread.

We have had never been bailed out prior to this

My parents are intelligent people and understand that they are liable for the debts if I stopped paying - I haven't and wouldn't do this.

We are trying to stand on our own two feet, however sometimes people need a little help and my parents were willing to do that for me.

You don’t have to justify yourself to anyone - you can hide this thread if it’s getting unhelpful.

You’ve had some criticism and advice, taken it on board and talked to your dad, you’ll formalise the ‘loan’ so it’s clear and there’s a plan should anything happen, and that’s that.

Don’t be ashamed about being in debt or needing help - debt is not a moral failing. You’re dealing with it. Commit to making progress - an emergency fund, crack down on spending, improve your credit rating so you have options. You can do it and you’ll feel proud of yourself when it’s done.

Good luck.

DriftingDora · 30/12/2023 10:46

Mayamymay · Today 10:04

I am so exhausted with all of the criticism, but I will respond again

Well, if criticism 'exhausts' you then perhaps you should beware of asking for opinions on your actions? In life you won't always hear what you want to hear.

It seems that since starting the thread you've had a rethink about trying to show yourselves in a better light: you've visited your father and he's said to have confirmed that he's fully aware of the implications. You say you've never been bailed out by your parents prior to this, and you also tell us your sister 'has previous' for being difficult.

There's more than a bit of minimising and the victim mentality going on here, - and in the reaction of your husband in saying that your sister can 'fuck off'. Seems a bit of an extreme reaction and indicates that her questioning your financial dealings has touched a nerve, so there's probably a backstory.

My parents are intelligent people and understand that they are liable for the debts if I stopped paying - I haven't and wouldn't do this.

This is where you are again being disingenuous. How can you possibly say you would not stop paying, and yet admit that previously you were using the credit card for other items? Things happen in life, there's a sudden emergency, people get sick and can't work, people lose their jobs - and you admit both you and your husband have had financial problems in the past. Again, you say some of this was due to your respective partners, but in fairness it seems unlikely to have been completely one-sided in both cases.

Mintyt · 30/12/2023 10:58

I would and have helped my children and had help when young myself. I don't think you or your parents have done anything wrong, your aware you need to be fair re inheritance, your managing your debt. Don't feel bad or ashamed anymore, you have proved yourself.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 30/12/2023 11:05

What happens if you lose your job OP and your parents can’t make the payments? Their home could be at risk

OP already answered that one, TorringtonDean - something along the lines of "I'd sell my house before I allowed that to happen"

As if Hmm

raindropsonatinroof · 30/12/2023 11:38

Well, if criticism 'exhausts' you then perhaps you should beware of asking for opinions on your actions? In life you won't always hear what you want to hear

I agree with this. Why did you ask for opinions if you didnt want them and feel totally secure that you are not taking advantage of your parents? I don't ask people for opinions when I am 100% sure that what I am doing is moral, ethical, right and perfectly legal because there is no need for anyone to validate me in that way.

Of course debt isn't a moral failing and noone on this thread suggested it was. Taking responsibility for your debts isn't a question of morality however- it's what we all have to do in life as adults. Our decisions have consequences- that is merely a fact of life. Lots of people have asked why you haven't sought out debt advice as there is plenty out there but you haven't answered that, which is really odd.

InspectorGidget · 30/12/2023 11:55

Personally I don't think you need to feel ashamed.

This was all done with the support of your parents and the figures aren't exactly eye watering.

I agree it's none of your sisters business if your parents have entered into this willingly to support you and it's on them to explain to your sister if she's got the wrong end of the stick.

It sounds like you get on well with your parents so I would speak to them / your dad and say you understand why sister is concerned if she hasn't got all of the full facts and they are aware you're not really that close. But she's been quite aggressive in her approach to you so if there is an issue with this arrangement from your parents point of view you'd like to discuss it.
If there isn't, then I agree it's non of your sisters business.

This can all be smoothed over quite easily.

InspectorGidget · 30/12/2023 11:59

Sorry I hadn't rtft when I posted. I'm glad you've spoken to your dad.

InspectorGidget · 30/12/2023 12:05

I can't imagine your dad now being happy she's posted it on Facebook. It seems she's the one becoming abusive now.

If your parents are of sound mind, their financial support to anyone is no one else's business. Your sister can be concerned and express it but that's between her and them now.

I don't even think using the cards on occasion is that bad if they are aware of it - the overall amount has come down massively and the minimum payments on £12k won't be huge.

I wish you good luck op and I'm sorry you've had a hard time on this thread.

GreatGateauxsby · 30/12/2023 12:33

@Mayamymay I have NO clue why you are getting such abuse

i think it’s fair to say the cards shouldn’t be used beyond what’s already on them ie no new debt even if paid off in month.

everyone consents to the arrangement
and it sounds like you have a nice family who are normal loving and caring (except for your sister!)

carry on making inroads to reduce and clear that debt… and don’t let the bastards grind you down.

its easy to be judgey if you are financially solvent and have never been in dire financial position and are unable to get cheap credit.

Lucanus · 30/12/2023 12:37

@Mayamymay Always remember that a lot of posters on here are (1) complete dicks and (2) have some very odd attitudes towards money, especially where parents are concerned.

Your parents don't want to see you in financial difficulty, and they've very kindly agreed to help you out. You shouldn't feel ashamed about having accepted their help when you really needed it. It's not actually costing them anything, they're happy with the arrangement, and you're not taking advantage.

It sounds like you're in a good position to carry on paying down the debt to £0, so good luck with that.

tilsmumsy · 30/12/2023 12:56

Crack on @Mayamymay, you're doing wonderfully well!!

Puzzledandpissedoff · 30/12/2023 12:58

Well, if criticism 'exhausts' you then perhaps you should beware of asking for opinions on your actions? In life you won't always hear what you want to hear

This is so true, but add in the OH's attitude that the sister and her concerns should "f*ck off" and it all starts to look a bit feckless

In fairness we all self-edit up to a point to make ourselves look better, so it would be interesting to hear the sister's own take on this ... impossible of course, but interesting all the same

DriftingDora · 30/12/2023 13:13

Lucanus · Today 12:37

@Mayamymay Always remember that a lot of posters on here are (1) complete dicks and (2) have some very odd attitudes towards money, especially where parents are concerned.

Regarding your point (1), I was only thinking the same thing when I read your post.

Poor OP is now 'exhausted' anyway. So still hasn't managed to answer why she (and husband?) haven't sought debt advice.

Mayamymay · 30/12/2023 13:17

GreatGateauxsby · 30/12/2023 12:33

@Mayamymay I have NO clue why you are getting such abuse

i think it’s fair to say the cards shouldn’t be used beyond what’s already on them ie no new debt even if paid off in month.

everyone consents to the arrangement
and it sounds like you have a nice family who are normal loving and caring (except for your sister!)

carry on making inroads to reduce and clear that debt… and don’t let the bastards grind you down.

its easy to be judgey if you are financially solvent and have never been in dire financial position and are unable to get cheap credit.

Edited

Thank you. I don’t understand the nastiness either. I understand people disagreeing with the arrangement, but some of the posts have really affected me, to the point if tears. I’m not someone who cries easily. I’m not an abuser or a thief. I’ve been a bit of an idiot with money, alongside some difficult circumstances.

OP posts: