Work capability assessment changes

[Orangesandlemons77]

Does anyone know anything about this please? Have seen something in the media about it. A change or removal of the WCA for ESA (UC?)

I'm in the support group for ESA, will this affect me? I'm in the group where they say they will not assess them anymore.

What suggestions do you have for making it simpler whilst adequately ensuring people are properly assessed?

As you say, PIP is awarded for help with daily needs and many people on it manage to work. We are constantly told (especially on mumsnet) that PIP isn't about whether you can work or not, so why choose PIP as the future deciding assessment for fitness to work? It just doesn't make sense!

It does if this is the thin end of the wedge and they're going to phase out PIP for anyone with an ability to work. Or if they're planning to change the criteria so that only those with enhanced PIP qualify as too disabled to work.

There's going to be so many people who aren't eligible for PIP, or who are but whose claims fail because they don't understand how to fill in the form/have no insight into how their condition affects them. And have nobody to help them. Plus, people who are successful but their claim takes months to process. All of them could be too ill to work but this won't be acknowledged or accepted and even where it is, some will have died from poverty or despair before their claim is approved, due to being sanctioned. It amounts to legalised murder by the government of the sick and disabled.

The way they talk about the figures rising for welfare benefits, as if it's down to malingering that needs to be stamped out! It's down to the amount of new people with long term health problems, as a result of contracting covid.

This is the problem. Your experience as a healthy person was it's "stressful and exhausting". For someone already stressed and exhausted due to their health conditions, the application process can be completely impossible.

I feel there's no understanding by those privileged people in positions of power that some people have absolutely zero help and support, especially for those with MH conditions. So often they're diagnosed (eventually, if they're lucky!) then discharged from services and left to get on with life by themselves.

I know. My heart goes out to people with no support.

I think the forms have to be somewhat difficult, but I also think much greater weight should be given to reports sent with applications.

My GP surgery won’t give a report to anyone claiming PIP or ESA because they say it’s a total waste of time and they get ignored. They’ll do it when an appeal tribunal ask because they know it gets read.

My DD was turned down at renewal despite specialist nurse, neurologist and sleep clinic all sending reports. They all had very detailed info about the limitations on her day to day activities.
At her last appeal she didn’t even get into the building. They rang her in the morning and said there was more than enough and awarded her enhanced for both.
at the one before that she was in for 10 minutes before the tribunal judge asked the DWP rep if he seriously felt that they all had to keep going.

maybe in an ideal world they should use the panels to decide from the start…

With all due respect, the reason we all pay tax is so that the government can run the services, such as disability benefits, we pay for in a fair and balanced way. It is not for me as an individual to come up with the answers.

But a start might be taking into account the knowledge that specialists treating patients have.

And just to add, the current system is fair to nobody. This includes us as taxpayers who have to meet the cost of the appeals system and the many, many tribunals which overturn DWP's decisions as above. The system is inefficient and not fit for purpose.

It does if this is the thin end of the wedge and they're going to phase out PIP for anyone with an ability to work. Or if they're planning to change the criteria so that only those with enhanced PIP qualify as too disabled to work

Well, then there will be lots of disabled people then unable to work because their PIP is stopped. And they wont be able to claim UC to that effect as they will no longer be on PIP. It makes no sense.

Not all pay tax.

It said something about them being committed to keeping a contributary benefit in the white paper

Also they seem to manage the ESA claims better, for example they asked my GP for a form ESA113 which is helpful.

They rarely seem to ask for further info for PIP.

I'm a bit puzzled by what they're proposing to be honest, and how it's going to impact me.

I'm on contributions based ESA, and am in the support group. Have been since 2019.

I was medically retired from my job (police officer), and the only real reason I claimed it was to get the NI contributions for my state pension, as I'm not at the full number of years yet.

I do get a small amount of money from ESA alongside my police pension.

I don't claim PIP, as reading through the descriptors (which are different to ESA), I'm not sure I'd get enough points. Or even if I thought I would (I've not looked recently), I'm not sure I have the actual medical evidence to send in with the form, and I just can't face it (exhaustion and brain fog are 3 of my primary problems).

I'm obviously not entitled to UC due to my pension, and my husband's earnings, and am very fortunate not to be in dire need of the PIP payment, which is another reason I've not bothered.

I'm unlikely to be able to work again, but in an ideal world just want to keep trundling along collecting my NI credits.

This white paper doesn't really say what's going to happen to anyone in a similar situation to me (unless I've totally misread it, which is more than possible). PIP (I don't think) doesn't give you NI credits, so am I going to be scuppered in that respect? I think after the end of this financial year I need another 6 for a full state pension.

You can pay voluntary NI contributions. If I am medically retired I will need to do so.

I can't see any suggestions that contribution based ESA will end, but presumably the test to be awarded it will be aligned with PIP. Which makes no sense, but that is a whole other issue!

If you only have another six years contributions needed, I wouldn't worry. The white paper says the changes will be rolled out to existing claims in 2029 at the earliest. The Tories may not even be in office by then! Even if the changes go ahead, the roll out won't begin in 2029, these things always get delayed.

Thank you, I'd completely missed the bit about the changes not being rolled out until 2029. That's reassuring.

In the meantime, I'll take another look at the PIP descriptors and see if I think I might have the evidence to support an application, plus the mental energy to do it. A couple of friends have told me to apply for it, but from reading so many posts on here I know just filling out the form can be horrendous.

I do have some experience of it in the past (before I was ill), as my son did get DLA when he was a child so had to do everything for that, and it was pretty stressful.

@Ilovefluffysheep If you think you meet the descriptors then do go ahead and apply for PIP. It is hard work doing the form but I've done it twice now (and if I can do it then anyone can) and just allowed plenty of time, research online etc You've nothing to lose (as you aren't currently relying on it, like a lot of us are) and a lot to gain. I think there will soon be a massive increase in the amount of people applying for PIP, when they realise how its going to influence benefits in the future, so the sooner you apply for it the better. People will always advise you on here if you are struggling with the form. Good luck!

Everyone pays tax. VAT for a start.

Thank you, that's good advice. 😊

I pay income tax as I work. My PIP helps me work amongst other things.

Everyone also pays VAT. So unless you never spend money we do all pay tax in whatever form.

Can I just add to this that from a mental health protection side - if you can view the PIP process as “Application form. Wait. Assessment. Wait. Rejection. Mandatory Reconsideration. Wait. Rejection. Put in appeal. Long Wait. Appeal.”

I find it a much less stressful process if I factor in months of waiting for appeal as just part of how it works.

It shouldn’t be, but it’s so often the case that it is

@YetMoreNewBeginnings I totally agree with you. I've now started to look at the PIP process like this, I'm factoring in appeals etc when working out how long the review process could take.

Yes I do this too. I kind of see it like an adversarial court process now with two 'sides' you and DWP.

If you have a really strong case in terms of evidence they 'settle' at an early stage. If not it 'goes to court'

But the Appeals are the real decision makers.

I have just thought of something else regarding this.

When you appeal for PIP you don't get paid anything, it can take years..whereas with ESA I think you get paid it whilst waiting for an appeal.

I could be wrong, but if that is the case it is another way of making money / plus putting people off claiming.

You get paid the basic rate, same as job seekers, while waiting I believe

Of ESA