Work capability assessment changes

[Orangesandlemons77]

Does anyone know anything about this please? Have seen something in the media about it. A change or removal of the WCA for ESA (UC?)

I'm in the support group for ESA, will this affect me? I'm in the group where they say they will not assess them anymore.

I got a letter from dwp in 2018 saying that I would not need further assessments for esa. I also have an ongoing award for pip.

When they tried to cut Tax credits after one of the budgets, (think it was when Osborne was chancellor) I remember it was stopped at the House of Lords.

So I wonder if similar might happen this time.

Yes they did this, they can't just go back on that surely.

@Orangesandlemons77 Let's hope someone starts a petition to get this bullying of the sick and disabled stopped before it becomes official. What are all these disability charities doing about this? Some of them have paid people working for them, when are they going to do their jobs and speak up and do something about this?

The government has said it has consulted disability charities and worked with them. Not sure which ones. Most charities at the moment have very little in the way of funds which limits what they can do, although many are campaigning- charities like macmillan, CAB etc are constantly campaigning. I work for a charity ( not specifically for disabled people but many of the people we assist are ill or disabled) but out funding for advisors is being significantly cut, we are absolutely swamped with increasing numbers of sick people wanting to claim PIP, ESA, need help with WCA forms. Numbers needing help have increased hugely, there is no government funding for our charity, donations are virtually non existent due to the cost of living crisis, and therefore people leave and are not replaced. In my county which is large, there is me full time and a couple of part time staff to provide a service to over 50's. It's dire. I doubt my charity can afford to employ people to campaign, although others like CAB likely will. We are even struggling to employ volunteers as they have all needed to either go back to work due to cost of living or being encouraged to go back to work by this government !

@Babyroobs Apologies Babyroobs that's entirely my ignorance about charities, I'm getting mixed up with ones like Dogs Trust where they have a Chief Executive on about 80k or something! I'm grateful for all the work that you and others do to help people on benefits and the good advice you give on here. It's so frustrating, if these changes don't come in for a few years as predicted then my dh won't actually be affected by them but I feel so angry for other people, who could be in our situation in the future and won't receive the help my dh has, which has literally been life saving to us. I have read more than a handful of posts on here over the last few days where people on disability benefits have said they may as well die, or they won't have enough money to survive and are so obviously terrified of the upcoming changes.

Yes it is awful. Most charities do have highly paid CEO's, I think theirs gets paid £170 K or did a couple of years ago when I worked for them !! It does seem to be a worrying time for disabled people, as I say the need now is huge so how much worse is it going to get if they make the PIP system harder, which I feel they will or reduce the money those on UC will get with the abolition of LCWRA element.

Maybe it is a way of dealing with all the new claims etc- it would cut down the benefits bill if everyone was made to claim PIP..which -I think the success rates for are around 40% - with appeals being around 70%

@Orangesandlemons77 I think that's exactly why they have chosen PIP to be the deciding factor, purely because its the most difficult to claim. Lots of mentally ill and disabled people are frightened of claiming it and probably just get by with ESA, UC and the extra LCWRA payment, which they'll eventually lose unless they have a PIP award.

Thanks for telling us about the MIND article. I just checked it out and agree wholeheartedly about there not being enough MH support out there. I have been in and out of the MH team since I was a child (30 now) and I was diagnosed with BPD in my late teens/early 20s, can't remember exactly but they didn't offer me the gold standard treatment of DBT as its too costly as its a long therapy, requires group and one to one sessions and specialist therapists. I was fobbed off with CBT and CFT, those are good therapies but not the gold standard for BPD. I was discharged last year saying I've had enough input from the MH team and need to learn skills to deal with things on my own. The skills I learned from those therapies were more aimed at talking nicer to myself, OCD compulsions (which I will admit are a lot better now than they were a few years ago) but not for things I am really struggling with like dissociation, self harm, flashbacks, hallucinations etc. Two psychologists, multiple GPs and even an A&E consultant who saw me when I fell down the stairs in the middle of a dissociative episode have all wrote to the MH team saying I need psychological interventions and they still refuse! My private psychologist and GP have put in a complaint to the NHS and say they have a duty of care to refer me to another health board if mine doesn't do DBT or anything similar that can help me. The NHS MH services have always been hit or miss but the last few years have been a joke. I understand they don't have a lot of staff and have budget cuts, I truly do understand and sympathise but its life or death to fellow sufferers like me and this budget reform has made me have dark thoughts, worse than usual.
I truly empathise with anyone who is worrying over these reforms or struggling to get the health help they need atm, be it physical or mental.

@RumHam I am so very sorry to hear of everything you have been through and its appalling that the mental health team have now discharged you, when you are so obviously still in need of help. My dh was with the psychosis team for 3 years, then they discharged him to the community mental health team. The difference between the teams is terrible, they offer hardly any support at all and they don't do the things they promise from one meeting to the next. I realise they are short of funding and it's not the actual care coordinator's fault, but my dh is slipping back to how he was three years ago and all this budget news is terrifying to him as it is to others. All I can say is that these changes aren't going to happen overnight and hopefully, in the meantime, we either have a change of government or they alter this White Paper to be more sympathetic to the mentally ill and disabled. I, honestly, don't think that many people who this will negatively effect have realised the full implications of it yet.

On the subject of mental health, I have found PIP regard having support as in being under the care of the MH team, being evidence of needing PIP..

However it is not this simple as often they discharge people ASAP. Another worry about this new change.

@Orangesandlemons77 that's interesting that PIP think this about being with the CMHT. Also, worrying as it's very difficult to get accepted by the CMHT, my dh was declined at first until his Psychiatrist send a letter to them. How long can you actually be with the CMHT for? and how do they justify discharging you? My dh has only been with them a few months and they haven't exactly done much for him yet so I don't know how they would justify discharging him but it is a worry.

I was awarded enhanced PIP (both rates) in 2017 while I was discharged from the MH team which was a shock! The assessor said I should have standard rates but the decision maker said I should have enhanced for both, that was a bigger shock! I was back until the MH team from 2018 to 2022. Trying to get referred back again as I mentioned earlier but they keep rejected me despite other health care professionals telling them I need help and complaints going in. The MH team keep saying all my trouble now is just grief and further trauma(I've lost 5 loved ones in the last 3 years and was in a serious car accident). Grief of course hasn't helped but my BPD has never been properly treated with the correct therapy (I always just given the quick and easy ones like CBT) and now it's all in a tailspin. The MH team tell me to go to grief support and I went to grief counselling and they told me they couldn't help as I was mainly struggling with flashbacks, hallucinations, dissociation etc from the BPD which grief was amplified and then I'd go back and try and get help from the MH team and they would say I've had enough help, get on with it pretty much and the loop would continue.

In regards to the white paper, I've read so many more conflicting things about it. Some people are saying if you get PIP at any rate, you won't have to look for work and then others are saying even if you get PIP, you'll still be made to look for work, you'll just get that extra UC health payment on top but will still be made to look for work or do training. So essentially, no one will be ill enough to not work unless under very extreme circumstances. I've read the paper myself but it's a lot to take in especially with bad brain fog. I'm worried sick about all of this. Even if it doesn't come into play for another ten years, I'm one of those people who can't help but obsess and sorry. I'm already dreading my PIP review coming up again this year. I'm dreading that 10 times worse now. Picking up my new motability car next week and wondering how long I'll have it for now. My current motability car has been my life line the last 3 years. I had to surrender my license due to my MH and physical health but thankfully my husband drives. It's made the world of difference getting to appts, emergencies and life in general.

@RumHam try not to worry (easier said than done). It is only a white paper at the moment. None of it might even happen if Labour get in at the next GE.

People who are worried about this should make sure we get out and vote at the next GE

I'm wondering how it'll work in Scotland as we are moving from PIP to the new ADP benefit. I haven't read up much about ADP as I haven't been switched yet but I'm assuming it's all the same criteria as PIP?

I definitely think this is the point behind this change.

people on conts based ESA who can’t claim UC will lose £400+ a month if there’s no more contributions based benefit.

I don't think anything has been said about scrapping contributions based benefits though, just the work capability assessment, so presumably you can still the assessment rate of ESA and get extra if you claim PIP or you just get the assessment rate of ESA for 12 months and if you haven't been awarded PIP in that time, it ends as it currently does after 12 months if you aren't put in the support group? I really don't think they will scrap CB ESA altogether.

Might be a stupid question but if you are awarded PIP then not awarded it again, even after tribunal, how long do you have to leave it before you put in a fresh claim? Also, wondering the same about ESA?

You don’t have to wait. You can apply again straight away.

They haven’t said anything about scrapping it, but there is nothing in the paper about how to get into the support group without the WCA.

It’s either being ignored, has been forgotten or will be scrapped.

I also think it will be via the PIP assessment for CB ESA.

I agree, I think this government want to make it as hard as possible for ill and disabled people to claim disability benefits. Most of them will be terrified of applying for PIP, especially those poor souls who don't have anyone to help with the forms etc

The PIP forms are horrendous. It took me about 2 weeks to fill them in (for my DH) and get all the supporting information together. I also did loads of research on how to word everything. DH got PIP with no issues, but it was stressful and exhausting. It should not be so hard.