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Original poster

Work capability assessment changes

163 replies

Orangesandlemons77 · 13/03/2023 13:42

Does anyone know anything about this please? Have seen something in the media about it. A change or removal of the WCA for ESA (UC?)

I'm in the support group for ESA, will this affect me? I'm in the group where they say they will not assess them anymore.

OP posts:
danni0509 · 15/03/2023 15:56

Eightiesgirl · 15/03/2023 15:35

@danni0509 thank you so much for that information.

You’re very welcome.

ArcticSkewer · 15/03/2023 15:57

Eightiesgirl · 15/03/2023 15:33

@ArcticSkewer I know it's so worrying isn't it? The fact that your relative is on PIP, even just standard rate, means that, according to the new white paper, they should not be required to seek work, so definitely shouldn't have a work coach bothering them. My husband is in the same position, severe mental health issues and is in receipt of only standard rate PIP. He's always just one point off enhanced, but I also can't summon up the energy to appeal and we just gratefully accept the fact he's been awarded anything.

Thanks @Eightiesgirl sorry to hear you face the same issues

Kerrybemmy · 15/03/2023 16:03

I was wrong about needing enhanced PIP (it's any PIP award)but I was correct about everything else, it was the only way this new system could work if they are scrapping the WCA. Unfortunately PIP is going to be overwhelmed in the future with new claims, and there are already backlogs. My worry is that they will make PIP even tougher to get to reduce successful claims. The good thing is that support will be put in place for people with mental health issues to work, small businesses will be created who specialise in mental health disorders, so these people can work without stigma about any strange behaviour, etc since everyone else is in the same situation.

Eightiesgirl · 15/03/2023 16:08

@Babyroobs You've hit the nail on the head exactly! If PIP is the only passport to this new UC health element then they are going to make it even harder to get PIP. It's already an absolute ordeal trying to get awarded it, so I can't imagine how they are going to make it easier and more accessible to claimants. There are going to be even more people applying for it now and how on earth are they going to cope with all those extra applicants, as you say, even if they take staff who have previously worked on ESA claims and transfer them to working on PIP assessments?

TracyBeakerSoYeah · 15/03/2023 16:12

The thing is you can have a UC claimant that has PIP (claimed whilst working) yet isn't in the LCW/LCWRA group as classed fit to work.

And the exactly the other way round, in the LCWRA group as but PIP denied.

Any change to disability benefits has to be thought about & implemented properly as you will get people falling through the net.

danni0509 · 15/03/2023 16:13

Eightiesgirl · 15/03/2023 14:38

Just reading this White Paper and it doesn't state anything about ESA. Basically, unless you receive any element of PIP you will lose the extra LCW payment added to UC. We all know how difficult it is to get approved for PIP, so there are going to be lots of people who are hit financially because of this new system.

I would imagine there is no reference to esa because esa will be migrated over to uc by the time the changes come in to effect.

Eightiesgirl · 15/03/2023 16:15

@Kerrybemmy I'm worried for the people who don't claim PIP because they are too afraid to, or have been unsuccessful in getting PIP awarded. The people who are only in receipt of ESA or have been assessed as LCW and receive the extra payment but don't get PIP. These are the people who will suffer, will they lose their ESA and their extra LCW payment and, if so, how are they meant to survive? Its OK saying they can get a job but that's not going to happen overnight and then what if they can't hold that job down? Today's news must be very worrying for anyone who can't work due to ill health but doesn't get PIP.

XenoBitch · 15/03/2023 16:25

I feel sick. I am on LCWRA, but not PIP. Does this mean I am going to lose the extra UC?
Saying you can only claim LCWRA if you claim PIP makes no sense. Claiming PIP does not mean you can't work. I don't think the two should be interlinked.

ChangeOfName22 · 15/03/2023 16:30

I think it's disgusting that they throw these ideas around without any policy or plans in place .. 😔 we need the Tories out.

Eightiesgirl · 15/03/2023 16:36

@XenoBitch I always thought PIP wasn't about whether you could work or not, it was how you coped with day to day activities, that's why it's not means tested. I thought the LCW/LCWRA and ESA was about whether you could work or not, so why are they linking PIP claims to this new system?

XenoBitch · 15/03/2023 16:58

Eightiesgirl · 15/03/2023 16:36

@XenoBitch I always thought PIP wasn't about whether you could work or not, it was how you coped with day to day activities, that's why it's not means tested. I thought the LCW/LCWRA and ESA was about whether you could work or not, so why are they linking PIP claims to this new system?

Yeah, it is about your needs, not whether you can work or not. I know several people who claim PIP and work full time. They probably would not be able to work if they were not in receipt of PIP.
So, saying you can only be declared unfit for work if you also claim a benefit that you can claim when in work, makes no sense.

I am trying to find comfort in the fact that this wont be happening for a few years yet (I hope!), but my MH is already on the decline... I don't need this worry too.

Babyroobs · 15/03/2023 17:01

TracyBeakerSoYeah · 15/03/2023 16:12

The thing is you can have a UC claimant that has PIP (claimed whilst working) yet isn't in the LCW/LCWRA group as classed fit to work.

And the exactly the other way round, in the LCWRA group as but PIP denied.

Any change to disability benefits has to be thought about & implemented properly as you will get people falling through the net.

I am worried about all those who are not awarded PIP and have to wait a year for it to go to tribunal. Do those people have to wait a year on standard Uc with no extra and no PIP either ? Unthinkable given how low the standard element of PIP is.

Babyroobs · 15/03/2023 17:07

Babyroobs · 15/03/2023 17:01

I am worried about all those who are not awarded PIP and have to wait a year for it to go to tribunal. Do those people have to wait a year on standard Uc with no extra and no PIP either ? Unthinkable given how low the standard element of PIP is.

Show quote history

Sorry that should say the standard element of UC.

Eightiesgirl · 15/03/2023 17:13

@Babyroobs yes, that is exactly my worry. How could anyone survive on just the standard element of UC? We rely on PIP and Carers allowance, which would also be lost if my dh didn't get PIP. There are going to be so many people waiting for tribunals/appeals the wait will be even longer.

Eightiesgirl · 15/03/2023 17:18

@XenoBitch I am doing the same. Hopefully, this won't happen for many years yet and we might have a change of government by then, that will come up with something better.

kingsleysbootlicker · 15/03/2023 17:42

I don't understand this. Apart from the obvious problems caused by LCW/LCWRA and PIP having different criteria, if it is going to all depend on whether someone gets PIP or not, what is the point of the proposed 'health element' on UC... why not just increase PIP payments? Am I missing something?

XenoBitch · 15/03/2023 18:03

kingsleysbootlicker · 15/03/2023 17:42

I don't understand this. Apart from the obvious problems caused by LCW/LCWRA and PIP having different criteria, if it is going to all depend on whether someone gets PIP or not, what is the point of the proposed 'health element' on UC... why not just increase PIP payments? Am I missing something?

Because you can be unable to work, but not be entitled to PIP. You can also be entitled to PIP and able to work.

yogitea · 15/03/2023 18:06

The good thing is that support will be put in place for people with mental health issues to work, small businesses will be created who specialise in mental health disorders, so these people can work without stigma about any strange behaviour, etc since everyone else is in the same situation.

In the real world, this just won't happen.

It is terrifying for anyone unable to work.

Yes, as someone upthread said - they know exactly what they are doing.

RicchT · 15/03/2023 18:14

I am really baffled . Please can someone clarify as I am so confused. I get lower rate PIP and am also in the support group for ESA. What does this mean from the budget today- is it being scrapped? Stressing as there is some
terminology on this thread that I do not really understand.

Eightiesgirl · 15/03/2023 18:21

And how long will it take to create these small businesses who don't mind "strange behaviour" in the workplace? Then, if they ever do exist, there is going to be so much competition to get a job there, that many people with mental illnesses are still going to be unemployed but without the extra money on UC because they've been unsuccessful in claiming PIP. You are going to end up with a lot more homeless people and people committing suicide. Like a previous poster said, they know exactly what they are doing.

XenoBitch · 15/03/2023 18:26

Eightiesgirl · 15/03/2023 18:21

And how long will it take to create these small businesses who don't mind "strange behaviour" in the workplace? Then, if they ever do exist, there is going to be so much competition to get a job there, that many people with mental illnesses are still going to be unemployed but without the extra money on UC because they've been unsuccessful in claiming PIP. You are going to end up with a lot more homeless people and people committing suicide. Like a previous poster said, they know exactly what they are doing.

Such a workplace sounds bizarre and a bad idea. It sounds more like a psychiatric hospital ward than a workplace. Some behaviour can be distressing for people seeing it, and more so for the person doing it.
I am curious as to what jobs these people would be doing, and what the nature of the workplace would be.

Eightiesgirl · 15/03/2023 18:27

@RicchT From what I understand you'll still get the same money coming in if you are on any rate of PIP, either standard or enhanced. Your LCW/WRA payment will be replaced with this new UC disability payment that you will get as long as you get PIP. As for ESA I'm not sure what's happening with that, but that gets deducted now anyway from the LCWRA payment you currently receive. I may be wrong but that's my understanding and I agree its all very complicated.

ArcticSkewer · 15/03/2023 18:27

Re-inventing Remploy

Eightiesgirl · 15/03/2023 18:33

@XenoBitch yes, I agree, it sounds more like a psychiatric facility than a workplace. These people will need carers to support them at work, I know my dh would. And what is going to be the nature of these small businesses, what are they going to produce etc? The whole idea is crazy and very worrying for people.

dcbc1234 · 15/03/2023 18:40

Sounds like Remploy - there are no new ideas lol.
'By the late 1980s there were 94 sheltered Remploy factories across the UK. But in 2008, when there were still 83 left, the Labour government closed 29 of them. The coalition then announced in March 2012 that it was withdrawing all subsidies and that the remaining 54 factory-based businesses would be sold or closed.'

Short-sighted by both parties there.