NHS pay increase 2022

[TabithaTiger]

www.gov.uk/government/news/nhs-staff-to-receive-pay-rise

Has anyone got any clarity on what this means for staff?

The media are reporting a 4.5% rise, with the lowest paid getting up to 9.3%.

I'm hearing elsewhere that it's not quite so straightforward as that and that the increase tapers as it goes up the bands, with those at band 9 getting 1.3%

Give it a rest @Katypp, you've said your bit several times. All roles in the NHS have been through agenda for change to make sure that job roles and responsibilities are commensurate with pay banding. I wouldn't fancy being a nurse at Band 6 or 7.

I guess the difference is i/we don't rely on a call centre worker etc to save the life of me/parents/friends/children etc.

Nurses/AHPS/Doctors/HCAs etc etc are there for us when we are at our lowest, be it in grief, illness, extreme worry...

I can only assume you ve never been ill/been in an accident/or had the stress and worry of having a loved one in a Hospital.... or if you have, your oblivious to whats going on around you.

Tonight, my DD is helping someone who came in for operation X today but due to circumstances beyond anyone's control, they are now an amputee.

I'd imagine someone working in the local planning dept hasn't those concerns, maybe i'm wrong.

Pay used to be poor in the 80s and 90s.it isn't now but the public has not woken up to this and the unions and some staff are only too happy to capitalise on this

A basic nurses pay in 1994 was approx £14k p.a (mid point band D) had that kept pace with inflation, it would be £31k, a nurse, 2 years into his/her job will be on £27.700k so Nurses have actually had a pay cut.....

So along with everything else you ve been wrong about on this thread, your wrong about this too.

Welcome to the UK 2022. Where people spend so much time spouting rubbish as fact that they don't care that the staff who look after our most vulnerable members of society are unhappy with pay and conditions. Still not to worry, in 10 years time the NHS will have been privatised, and then we truly will be stuffed.

Boris would be proud!

@AndreaC74 as I have said before, your daughter chose to he a nurse therefore it cannot have come as a surprise to her that she had to deal with medical matters. That's what she's paid to do.
I spent three weeks in hospital a couple of years ago and my dad has been in and out of hospital for the past two years, including some fairly lengthy stays.
Yes, the nurses did a great job, but they are paid to do a great job. I just cannot get my head around this mentality that we are somehow supposed to bow down in gratitude to someone who is doing the job they are paid to do.
I am sure your daughter is a great nurse, but she is following the career she presumably chose to follow, so why do you keep telling me about all the things she does? I know what a nurse does.

Best ignored - hard to believe anyone can be so awful.
Stalks threads re nhs to make nasty remarks.

Quite.

It's a bit embarrassing really isn't it.

50,000 nurse vacancies. only getting worse.
nurses filling in for doctor shortages.
complex patients requiring highly skilled interventions.
independent committee reporting worst staffing crisis in history.
daily stories of ambulances queuing outside hospitals-in the summer!! Unheard of.
ageing sick and demanding population.
multiple treatment lines now available to treat difficult illnesses.
staff burnt out after putting their health at risk to manage covid and now dealing with huge backlog, leaving in droves.

….and the government respond by giving them a pay increase way less than inflation. After a decade of austerity.

people will do difficult and unpopular jobs for the right financial reward. The answer is to pay up.
nhs staff are never paid properly. They are punished in the down turns and not rewarded in the up turns.

@Fhuukccssghkkb as a senior doctor I wholly disagree. I think I can cope very well without my Band 8a/b/c operations manager. And my Band 9 “divisional director of operations”!

Aside from generating me paperwork for the latest trust KPI or red/pink/blue/black/orange bed alert. Through all my years in the nhs I haven’t worked out what they do.

i would happily swap said manager for a band 7/8 clinical nurse specialist who I can train to deliver patient facing care.

Sick of people slagging off managers when they hold great responsibility and are critical to the functioning of our health service

Really? I'm another one wondering exactly what they do that's so 'critical'.

I see loads of building works going on. But there are not enough vascular surgeons to treat people with rotting black feet....

There are not enough surgeons, or nurses, or many other roles. There are huge percentages of vacancies. It's not as simple as lose a manager, gain a nurse. It doesn't work that way. For years the NHS has had to recruit nurses from overseas. And that pipeline is slowing down.

It's about attracting people into the profession in the first place, and keeping them there. Which is really what this thread has talked about.

All the building works that I am aware of have been to fix old hospital buildings that would literally fall down otherwise. And again nothing to do with staffing funding.

The NHS cannot get or keep the front line staff that it needs. We can dress it up however we like, blame managers, building works etc. But the reality is that there's funding for roles that never gets used because the job remains vacant.

I work in the NHS and have quite a lot of dealings with ‘managers’.
Here is a list of the important things ops teams do from my experience:

Manage clinic booking and waiting list staff to ensure they are booking as efficiently as possible and in chronological/clinical priority order. May change depending on demand and waiting list sizes.
Monitor efficiency of clinics and lists - understand and improve areas where needed - e.g DNA rates increasing.
Liaise with other teams and staff members to offer up or get cover for clinics and theatres when clinical staff are on leave.
Set up new clinics and theatres, for new staff or job plan changes.
Organise rotas.
Ensure letters are being typed and accurately reflect outcomes so pathways are moved forward for patients.
Ensure things are unblocked so pathways move forward - speak to other departments to get diagnostics moved so they fit better with other clinical appointments.
Service improvement - savings, new ways of working to improve efficiencies, introduce new technologies.
Attend various meetings for governance purposes (required for all public funded organisations…) patient safety, risk, business etc
Feedback important messages to clinical teams from said governance meetings.
Ensure/improve compliance with national standards (ie NHS constitution).
Organise and approve responses to FOIs.
Liaise with local GPs.
Liaise with bed management team to get patients medically fit for discharge.
Ensure flow through Emergency Department.
Responsible for budget.
Ensure staff are trained in new systems and they meet the needs of the service.
Recruitment - clinical and admin. Appraisals. Mandatory and statutory training.
Planning services - demand and capacity.
Answering to Execs for x, y and z.

All (or most!) of this is needed, and would take a significant amount of time away from patient care if clinicians had to do it.
That’s not to say that all managers are good at the job, or that NHS bureaucracy doesn’t hinder things. But from what I can see - it’s a tough job, and not one I’d want.

@Katypp Sorry my DD's not a nurse, there are a multitude of roles that come under AHP.

Maybe you should re read the post where you said they were badly paid in the 80s and 90s ?
... they've had a real terms pay cut since then... where does that put your argument?

The NHS cannot get or keep the front line staff that it needs. We can dress it up however we like, blame managers, building works etc. But the reality is that there's funding for roles that never gets used because the job remains vacant

I think most people realise this.... hence the 110k nhs job vacancies, So why make the profession more attractive? perhaps higher pay.. that would usually be the call for other jobs.
Reduce tuition fees, fund more training places (not easy as students need placement time) even free parking?

As far as i can see, the staff issues have to be resolved before any reorganisations can take place and equally, the Govt is doing nothing about training, pay or conditions.

Totally agree!

@Cocoaone please save us (and the public) from that sanctimony.

does a consultant really need to be told by a manager:

• I need to update my manual handling training?


• that there are no beds in the hospital and that we need to “treat and discharge” patients - hadn’t realised that one?! I thought I was meant to sit at work and just hoard patients like toilet rolls.


• liaise with local GPs - that’s what I do!


• set up clinics? No that’s what my secretary does.

@AndreaC74 for 1 band 8 manager on £55k+20% employer pensions + c10%NI (total - £70k). You can have 2-3 band 5 nurses. What would you prefer?

oh and we have 3 or 4 of these band 8 managers in our small department.

for 1 band 8 manager on £55k+20% employer pensions + c10%NI (total - £70k). You can have 2-3 band 5 nurses. What would you prefer?

Find it hard to believe you have 4 band 8's in a small dept... Head of nursing, chiefs or matrons.... all managing large numbers of people?

Then again, you don't know whether its 3 or 4 band 8s in your dept.

Cocoaone
plenty of those tasks you listed are done by the doctors, admin, frontline nursing staff.

I’m afraid I have also seen nonsense managerial jobs staff paid band 7 managerial full time roles and working closely with them I’m well aware they have done almost nothing. there is horrific misuse of taxpayers money and there is a layer that need overhall. What is needed is actual frontline clinicians, doctors and nurses, to see and treat the actual patients.
I don’t need someone who doesn’t know how to do my job is paid full time to be the ‘lead manager’ for the service but does absolutely nothing, bar have coffee, collect their kids mid afternoon and ‘works from home’ then. It’s a racket, in my view.

the band 8a on my service however works very hard. But clearly there is scope for overhaul of the layers of management in place to ensure they deliver something that’s worth all that money. Otherwise we need it diverted to clinical staff.

This shouldn't be an argument of clinicians vs managers. We need both. As others have said it's not as easy as 'just' finding a spare 1000000 trained, qualified, motivated staff.

@SussexSussex I absolutely take your point. However...I have a senior consultant who is 0% compliant with mandatory training. I should just be able to leave people to do all the shit they should just do but not everyone will. Everytime there is a new requirement for medical staff to do anything remotely administrative we get a load of push back that they are being made into overpaid clerks. Are you really suggesting that clinicians should take on more management and admin?

Equally, your secretary may set up your clinic, but does he or she monitor the referral flow of patients across all sub specialties and tweak the allocations according to capacity? Do they manage the complaints that come in? Do they investigate the incidents? Do they understand and take responsibility for capacity and demand management across the service? Do they identify when additional clinics are required and write the business case to get the funding, find extra clinic space and recruit sufficient staff to support the clinic?

And when your secretary goes on holiday or retires who ensures the service cover and succession planning? Who orders and pays for the equipment you need and makes sure the service is within budget?

This year I have undertaken 6 separate recruitments for junior doctors and still cannot maintain safety on the wards. I use the limited resource we have to plug gaps on a daily basis to ensure things are as safe as possible. Literally hundreds of hours.

I've secured Capital investments for new clinic space and vital equipment for wards and theatres. I've supported my consultant team to implement service developments and all of the governance to get these in place. I've led the team through a CQC inspection, four waves of COVID and a monkeypox outbreak. I've translated iteration after iteration of COVID rules and IPC guidance to my team of over 300 staff. I've secured 2m of funding to support elective recovery

I lay awake at night worrying about safety on my wards and staff wellbeing.

I work on call making critical decisions on behalf of the whole organisation for a shitty £20 a go.

I listen to everyone else's complaints and worries and stay late every day fixing things where I can. I don't get everything right all the time but I try my best. I have never felt so demoralised. If my team talked about me the way you talk about your managers I would walk out and never come back.

as I have said before, your daughter chose to he a nurse therefore it cannot have come as a surprise to her that she had to deal with medical matters. That's what she's paid to do
So why do you think we are short of 50k nurses? Because although many would love the job, they can be paid better doing something else. Maybe next time you go to hospital, your care won't be so good because you'll share a tired and stressed nurse with 10 other patients.

Doctors treat patients. The fact that some are cut to discharge and blocking beds, resulting in loss of income when most trusts struggle not to be in deficit is not their concern. Without managers, there would be no NHS because it couldn't be afforded. Many managers work long and stressful hours having to deal with all the problems that clinical staff are exempt from dealing with (as they should).

@Lapland123 i couldn’t agree more. We have a service delivery manager, general manager, deputy general manager, divisional directorate manager, deputy divisional director manager. Fine. They’re not all 8Cs. But I can guarantee you they’re a band 7/8a at a minimum.

it is indeed all a racket! if they paid my secretary properly then maybe they wouldn’t be needing to work weekends elsewhere to make ends meet!

SussexSussex it’s unbelievable, isn’t it? I have seen far too many racket jobs now and know that there is much wastage of taxpayers money into non clinician roles and that needs to be overhauled big time. We need doctors, nurses, other HCPS on the front line. Not at home because they don’t want to book after school club- that’s not a joke

The lack of understand of what NHS managers do by clinicians is a real issue. THEY are not the NHS. The NHS is still managing to function because of everyone working together and doing their function.

Sadly, critical functions undertaken by managers are mostly taken for granted and all the praise just go to the medical staff.

Take them out and it wouldn't be long before the NHS would totally collapse.

Oh believe me it is possible to have that many managerial positions in a small department. I work in radiology. We have a Superintendent Radiographer who manages the Radiographers and everything to do with x-ray, Deputy Superintendent Radiographer who assists in managing the radiographers as well as the assistants, another Deputy Superintendent who manages the assistants and is in charge of sorting out the students and educational aspect, Clinical manager of General Ultrasound, Clinical Manger of Obstetric Ultrasound who also helps out with General, Fluoroscopy General manager. Also covered in the Radiology/Imaging spectrum is Superintendent in CT & MRI plus their deputy. All 8A's. We are a small town hospital in the midlands, part of a larger trust with their own set of management. Then the larger hospital in our trust has the same, as well as a nuclear medicine team. And then there is the top dog, the General Manager (though he's a band 8B) plus his deputy who is situated at our site. We also have 3 community hospital sites with their own radiology Superintendents for their tiny teams of 4/5 radiographers.