Please help, I'm in serious trouble

[trouble20]

I'll try to make sense here but I'm really panicking and need help.

About six years ago dh was suddenly sacked and we had to claim benefits for about two months before he got another job. As I was working part time I received a considerable amount in tax credits (hadn't had them before).

Dh got a new job but the tax credit kept being paid and I didn't inform them for a few months as I really needed the money. I know this was wrong.

Today dh has had £700 taken from his wages as DEA. He thinks it's a mistake and it can't be right but I know that it's probably around 8000 in total as I had a letter about it a few years ago.

I cannot tell him. I know he'll find out when he speaks to DWp but I truly can't tell him.
He is quite controlling with money, I don't work so he transfers money every two weeks to pay for groceries but I don't have access to money or any of my own.

He earns good money but £700 a month will cripple us, is there any way to reduce this amount?
Sorry if I'm not making sense but I'm seriously scared.

Are you saying you’ve kept over four grand that you should never have had?

@TatianaBis

OP Can you please explain why you think the £700 deduction is related to the letter you had "a few years ago".

The DWP wouldn't suddenly start deducting money some years after a letter. And they wouldn't deduct money without telling you.

They would. As I said in my previous post, they have only just written to me about an overpayment made to me in 16/17. I was on a payment plan for the previous year and they didn't let me know at the time, or suggest adding it on to the payment plan I was already paying, because there is no joined up thinking!

The whole system is a mess. I spent 2 hours on hold yesterday to 4 different govt departments trying to get them to explain why I still had an overpayment from 6 years ago that I had not been told about sooner. It's soul destroying trying to deal with this stuff.

and the DwP are now involved. All old inactive TC accounts are being closed and any debts (that the HMRC have forgotten about) are being passed over to them as everything is going over to UC. at least this is what I was told yesterday when I finally managed to speak to someone.

And again. Delaying telling them won't be considered fraud as long as you do it by the end of the financial year. They even send you a form so that you can tell them of any changes once the financial year has ended.

So stop sticking it to the OP about fraud and making her feel worse than she already does. She needs help and support not a shoeing.

@Marni83 it’s still not fraud though, it’s unwise to knowingly build up such a large overpayment but it’s not illegal.

£63K pa, he's only giving you £300 a fortnight, but he can't pay back £700 a month. Quite aside from the overall financial abuse (no access to accounts or information is a red flag), I think there's some big questions about where his money is going.

They would. As I said in my previous post, they have only just written to me about an overpayment made to me in 16/17. I was on a payment plan for the previous year and they didn't let me know at the time, or suggest adding it on to the payment plan I was already paying, because there is no joined up thinking!

The whole system is a mess. I spent 2 hours on hold yesterday to 4 different govt departments trying to get them to explain why I still had an overpayment from 6 years ago that I had not been told about sooner. It's soul destroying trying to deal with this stuff.

Right but they wrote to you now before taking the money - which is my point. It would be very unusual to start taking money now relating to a letter several years ago, without notification.

Also - the OP's DH wasn't on a payment plan afawk.

I'm not sure why you're telling me off about referring to this as fraud when I was one of the posters who said it wasn't.

Just say you don’t know OP. Keep claiming ignorance. If you don’t know what he earns etc then you can’t be expected to know anything re child benefit etc.

He is financially abusing you. Make plans to leave him.

My husband earns double what I do and we have a joint account that we can both spend whatever we like out of. Obviously we both discuss big purchases though

I'm not convinced that it's connected to the tax credits . if the over payment was £4,000 , surely they wouldn't take as much as £700 a month.

[quote MyDcAreMarvel]@Marni83 it’s still not fraud though, it’s unwise to knowingly build up such a large overpayment but it’s not illegal.[/quote]
The DWP will regard this as fraud.

And they are coming down very tough on fraudsters post lockdown

@aginandtonic I know that but she hasn’t stated the £ next to each item…

Food - I can shop for a family of 5 between £40-70/week including toiletries and cleaning products and luxury items occasionally
Cleaning stuff etc ( see above)
Clothes for the children - do they need clothes every month, surely not, I certainly don’t buy clothes every month for mine and if I do it dose not have to cost a lot.
My phone - how much?
Fuel, I don't use a lot though ( again how much, my car I can manage on £40/m but I mainly use for school runs)
Dog groomers ( no idea what these cost but I don’t own a dog because we can’t afford one..l)
Contents insurance is this pained monthly, annually & how much ours is about £100 annually - £6/fn approx…
Water ( is she on a meter, how much is it, is it paid annually? Ours is approx £130/year) -£8/f/n approx…
Tv license - is about £7/fn
Netflix - is what £7.99/m?
Toiletries for me and the children - see main shopping
School trips - have there been many since covid and school trips arnt a regular thing.
Some birthday and Christmas presents - agree can get expensive but not if managed properly.

You might be scared but you committed benefit fraud for months, and now they want it back understandably, you obviously have issues regarding money and for this my heart goes out to you, but you need to speak to your husband, and either get a job so that you can help towards bringing more money in, to be in a marriage these days where a man holds the purse strings and doesn’t allow you access to any money is horrible, I’d want to know why! Is it because he doesn’t trust you with money op

Paid*

I wouldn’t worry about the repayments just yet, I did something similar about 5 years ago and very quickly owed £2100. They allowed it to be paid back at £100 per month. Get him to phone them and plead ignorance with him, they will have taken it from his wages because you don’t currently have an income.

I won’t echo everything else the PP have said because I’ve nothing else different to say, I will however implore you to call women’s aid or speak to someone in confidence. Your GP is always a good place to start, it’s confidential and they’ll be able to signpost you in the right direction for some support in this situation which I’m sure you realise is financial abuse. Sorry but only giving you £600 per month out of 63k to pay all the bills you have is utterly atrocious of him. You’d probably get more in child maintenance if you split from the absolute arsehole.

You need to get more info, OP. Ring them and ask if you can pay it off at a rate you and your DH can afford. But it also sounds as if you need to have it all out in the open with your DH. It's not fair that he expects you and the dch to live on fresh air. He will get angry - what happens then? Does he calm down quickly? Could you go to a friend's house if necessary? This is his problem too - don't be too hard on yourself. If you'd had access to the family income this debt may not have built up. But it needs to be paid back, and DH needs to be involved.

[quote AliceMcK]@aginandtonic I know that but she hasn’t stated the £ next to each item…

Food - I can shop for a family of 5 between £40-70/week including toiletries and cleaning products and luxury items occasionally
Cleaning stuff etc ( see above)
Clothes for the children - do they need clothes every month, surely not, I certainly don’t buy clothes every month for mine and if I do it dose not have to cost a lot.
My phone - how much?
Fuel, I don't use a lot though ( again how much, my car I can manage on £40/m but I mainly use for school runs)
Dog groomers ( no idea what these cost but I don’t own a dog because we can’t afford one..l)
Contents insurance is this pained monthly, annually & how much ours is about £100 annually - £6/fn approx…
Water ( is she on a meter, how much is it, is it paid annually? Ours is approx £130/year) -£8/f/n approx…
Tv license - is about £7/fn
Netflix - is what £7.99/m?
Toiletries for me and the children - see main shopping
School trips - have there been many since covid and school trips arnt a regular thing.
Some birthday and Christmas presents - agree can get expensive but not if managed properly.[/quote]
Our household income is similar to the OP and there are only two of us.

We probably spend at least £70 a week on food. £40-70 a week for a family of 5 is unnecessarily low unless you have a very low income and no other choice, which doesn't apply to the OP.

No, people don't need clothes every month, but an important part of responsible budgeting is putting money aside for irregular expenses like clothes, so it is available when you need it, like peak school uniform time as we are at now.

Some people need to use more than £40 of fuel just to do school runs, shopping etc.

Many people's insurance is more than £6 a month, even if they shop around.

Our water is £400 pa and many people's is a lot more. Most people don't have much choice about this, and families with a £63k pa income shouldn't feel the need to skimp on water FFS.

No, TV licence is not £7 pm, try about double that.

Of course the DC should be able to go on school trips, they can afford them, and they're often vital for education and general enjoyment of life/fitting in.

@AliceMcK I agree, something doesn't add up here. OP is getting £600 a month (plus child benefit) and some of that stuff won't be every month (i.e dog groomer/school trips/presents). Lots of people manage on that for a lot less.

It's all well and good saying her husband should be giving her more as he's on £60k a year but we have no idea what he's paying out and OP has run up debts and not told him before. We don't know if she's being financially abused or whether her DH has to be like this because she's bad with money.

Sorry but only giving you £600 per month out of 63k to pay all the bills

She's not paying 'all the bills'. Who's paying the mortgage, council tax, gas and electric, car tax/insurance? Pet insurance? Do they have holidays? Loans for other stuff like cars? Did they agree to put some money in a savings account? We don't know. This is only the OP's side of the story.

just working on some assumptions of where the money is going

3700 take home

-600 - you
-700 - tx credit repayment
-1200 - rent (assuming average 3 bed place for yourself and 2 children)
350 - running a car (assuming he has one - insurance, petrol etc)
his phone - 30
his clothes - 50
dentist/other health eg opticians etc - 50
lunches while at work (£3 a day) - 60 a month
does he belong to a gym?
Presents - £100

£3140 spent leaving 570 0ver

actually missed off council tax and utilities - can see why the 700 might make you near the breadline

[quote AliceMcK]@aginandtonic I know that but she hasn’t stated the £ next to each item…

Food - I can shop for a family of 5 between £40-70/week including toiletries and cleaning products and luxury items occasionally
Cleaning stuff etc ( see above)
Clothes for the children - do they need clothes every month, surely not, I certainly don’t buy clothes every month for mine and if I do it dose not have to cost a lot.
My phone - how much?
Fuel, I don't use a lot though ( again how much, my car I can manage on £40/m but I mainly use for school runs)
Dog groomers ( no idea what these cost but I don’t own a dog because we can’t afford one..l)
Contents insurance is this pained monthly, annually & how much ours is about £100 annually - £6/fn approx…
Water ( is she on a meter, how much is it, is it paid annually? Ours is approx £130/year) -£8/f/n approx…
Tv license - is about £7/fn
Netflix - is what £7.99/m?
Toiletries for me and the children - see main shopping
School trips - have there been many since covid and school trips arnt a regular thing.
Some birthday and Christmas presents - agree can get expensive but not if managed properly.[/quote]
You talk a lot about "managing" why should OP be managing on £40 a week food shopping and cheap this and that when her husband earns 63k a year?

loving all the judgemental shite on here ....

OP asked for help, shes terrified, if you have no advice, move onto another thread where you can opinionate.

OP, I wish you well, bach xx

If they saw it as fraud, they would have said and yes as long as youve told them within financial year its an overpayment or even an underpayment, not fucking fraud :)

You need to call tax credits and there debt collection team. If you have ignored letters from them then they will take money, if you had called them then they would have set up a monthly payment. I owed over £4000 due to my ex lying about his earnings (he only lived her a year and so called gave me his details for tax credit claim), I called tax credits debt team (not sure of the correct name) and managed to get the amount halved as ex should pay half, then I was asked “how much a month can you afford to pay back?” I now pay £20 a month until it’s cleared 😬.

Best thing to do is call, explain that £700 has been taken and you can’t afford that much, hopefully they can refund and set up a payment plan.

Ignore or the people saying “it’s fraud and you’ve taken money that’s not yours” I’m sure you know that but loads of people make mistakes and claiming tax credits is a mine field.

@BarbaraofSeville you’ve misquoted me I said £6 a fortnight for insurance not a month.

£40-70 per week on shopping is not unnecessarily low at all, it’s just not over indulgent. Lots of people have no choice but to feed their families on less than this.

Agree some people will spend more than £40 on petrol for school runs but I was giving my own costs as an example as the OP hadn’t included hers and said she didn’t use much. We know she dosnt work so obviously not commuting.

Again I said £7/ fortnight for tv licence. It’s actually £13.33 per month

Did I say the DCs should not go in school trips? I asked if there had been many since covid! I also said they are not a regular thing.

“ No, people don't need clothes every month, but an important part of responsible budgeting is putting money aside for irregular expenses like clothes, so it is available when you need it, like peak school uniform time as we are at now’” exactly the whole point of my post was to see how the op is budgeting 🙄

If you read my original comment I said £300/ fortnight could be a lot or a little depending on the costs involved. Op has not said what her costs are or what her DH pays for. My 2nd comment was merely illustrating my own expenses as an example, without knowing the ops actual expenses.

Is there a pattern of you getting into debt, and hiding it from DH op? You’ve mentioned a few things (council tax and something else I think).

You have to fess up. If he is financially controlling you that’s something to sort afterwards, or is he controlling it because you build up debts? What’s the catalogue account looking like?

[quote Myusernameisnotmyusernameno]@trouble20
My DP always had to do a tax return. He earns about the same as your husband. I earn about 24k. CB goes on the total household income. I could claim it but he would end up doing a tax return and paying it back. As someone whose partner earns the same as yours and I work too what you are saying is pretty worrying as my DP will pay more towards the bills than me ensuring we both have spending more. I contribute and will buy things for our DD but so will he and when my tax got messed up recently (works fault) he gave me some out of his disposable to ensure I wasn't left with nothing. Your set up sounds pretty abusive and I don't throw the term around lightly. [/quote]
This is incorrect. CB does not go on household income. If both parents earn 45k each they can claim CB however if one parent earns over 60k, even if the other earns nothing, then you can’t.

This was one of the flaws in the system when it was changed back in 2013

£40-70 per week on shopping is not unnecessarily low at all, it’s just not over indulgent. Lots of people have no choice but to feed their families on less than this

But that amount is way below average and very hard to stick to, plus a family with a £63k income can afford way more.

Even someone going through bankruptcy would be allowed £5-600 pm for groceries in their income payment order, so it's really not considered over indulgent.

The DH is very likely abusing the OP by keeping her short of money and making it difficult or impossible for her to work.

@helentomelon have I missed out where op has listed her actual costs? These are mere examples. We have no idea what her or her DH are spending money on. I was merely illustrating how £300/fortnight can go a long way. If you read my original comment I said £300/fortnight could go a little or long way depending on expenses. We have no idea where in the country they are, what the cost of living is, I could have a very cushy lifestyle where I live if my DH was taking home £63k a year, but if I moved 30min down the road I’d need to claim UC to survive… it’s all relative. We have no idea what the bigger picture is, what is her DH paying in rent, council tax, insurances, his car, his phone, catching up on debt from when he lost his job, catching up on ops old debt, trying to save for a house to secure their future…. Until we know that we can not accuse him of anything especially when the op has admitted she’s gotten them financially in trouble with bailiffs turning up on their door step in the past, now admitting benefit fraud on top of hiding it from her DH and also running up catalogue and possibly other debt. In her DHs situation I would limit how much cash she had freely each month too.