MLM Bot Watch 27 - The Yazoo iis past iits use by date, but we have a massive #lardon: Tragiicomic cultiic wampum floggiing scamalangadiingdongs liike Forever Living, Ariix, Herbalife, Younique, Juice

[acatcalledjohn]

Still going strong here at bot watch HQ on MN!

Previous thread here

Botwatch on Wordpress and on Facebook

Timeless Vie on Wordpress and on Facebook

Eyespeying's Blog aka #manhun, even if he's been banned by MNHQ

Hommetepreneur on Facebook
www.lazymanandmoney.com/is-every-mlm-a-scam
We have our own regularly returning bots.

Glossary:

Bots: our affectionate name for victims of the MLM racket

MLM: Multi-level Marketing schemes - essentially pyramid schemes that are just legal because you sell a product. Reliant upon constant recruitment despite there not being enough people in the world to go beyond about 12 levels if everyone recruited 6.

Downline/Upline: the people you recruited and those who recruited you (going up and down the pyramid inverted funnel)

Timeless Vie: Parody of MLM schemes (though you might spot one in particular) that also carries out fearless investigative work. Flogging the amazing skinny lard and now carbonated lard. The arsenic is not the evil Victorian stuff. #TeamDannii #gettingalardon

Hommetrepreneur: also excellent parody site focussing on the menz

BotWatch: Rather more serious, keeps an eye on what the Bots are claiming next, particularly in reference to health and income claims. Also fearless.

Inverted Funnel: Timeless Vie is NOT a pyramid - it's an inverted Funnel, OK?

Eyes: Our former member Eyespying who knows LOTS about MLM schemes. He's still our very own #manhun.

Ah. Toobusy was around.

Toobusy - instinct tells me it's a copy job from a source outwith the UK.

It was screenshotted from my friends fb profile who lives in the midlands uk.

I think it originated from somewhere outside the UK though, Scutt. Adherents often just copy stuff they're sent without really thinking about it. (They don't have time.)

ahh ok

If you use it in the UK and it breaches our laws, you still have ........problems though.

I just seen this picture on a top Fl bots page. I dont know about anyone else,but I feel quiet sad looking at this,theres 4 men in the back sitting down who are obviously elderly (not that there is anything wrong with being elderly of course!!!) ,but been told they can be entrepreneurs with fl,give me a break!! Hope they haven't parted with their hard earned savings/pension to buy a "business in a box" load of crap!! Sicking

Sean, something else disturbing in that photo is the poster on the left. I've seen that phrase before and it is quite worrying. "You can't change you life if you don't change your thinking".

So many things wrong with that statement. It implies your life needs changing because you are thinking in the wrong way, i.e. Your problems are your fault. Also I feel it will be setting people on a track to not trusting their instincts, losing their critical faculties and opening themselves up to blindly doing as they are told.

I remember going to the business presentations when I was in flp. They are a bit cringy.
You will have guest speakers from flp explaining how the business model works.
They would say " hands up who would like free travel......yayyyy "
" who would like a brand new car paid for.......yayyyy"
All the hands going up and "yayyys" were from the flp reps.
The worst bit was the sack the boss speech. I knew of bots that were not in good financial positions that would stand there grinning saying " and thanks to forever I've sacked my boss "
Deep down you knew they were struggling and it was all a front.

Oh for god sake my sister in law has just joine Avon and I know they're not the worst of their kind but surely must be going more MLM as her first post says she's just joined and needs team members (with a list of bull incentives). I really don't need this

The problem with the "not as bad as the utah ones" ones like Avon and Neils Yard, is that their compensation plan is rubbish.

By being an avon or a NY rep they are very much on the Utah based MLM company bots radar for poaching, because on paper (even though it's BS), the utah ones appear to offer a much better/easier compensation plan for the same kinda work.

Avon/NY = the gateway drug of MLMing

Yeah I thought so. She was a sure target. Stay at home mum who was planning to go back to work, little one just started pre-school but sure the selling point of staying at home appeals.

I think that there are also some companies that are 'tweaking their model' to improve financial figures in the short term.

I've been bot stalking FL and JP. It's having an insidious effect on me! Part of me starts wanting their ridiculous pills and potions! I've always been a sucker for Holland & Barrett penny sales, and the odd "superfood". Clearly need to satisfy my cravings for aloe vera gloop and powders in some cheap non-mlm way soon, or stop bot stalking...

I have an MLM bot who has left because of an 'amazing opportunity'

From looking at the obligatory hashtags it seems she has followed her previous upline to the 'brand new' and 'coming soon to the uk' isagenix (found the name from a picture of the product, 'cos obviously nobody is naming them).

Most amusingly the hashtag I followed was #eyesforward

I see that 1984 is at the top of Amazon's book sales list? (In the USA at least.)

I've been sent a message. No prizes for guessing who it's from.

Readers of these threads might be interested to learn that years back, the bosses of 'Amway' tried to buy 'Avon;' obviously, in order to give their 'MLM' scam added credibility, but this deal was not allowed by US regulators. At that time, 'Avon's' traditional door-to-door direct selling business model, was already becoming out-dated. The jaw-dropping reason (which US regulators accepted) why 'Avon's 'bosses didn't want to allow their struggling lawful enterprise to go to 'Amway,' is set out in this NY Times article of 1989.

www.nytimes.com/1989/05/18/business/amway-withdraws-avon-offer.html

'Avon's' bosses have only recently introduced a form of Multi-Level pay-plan based on recruitment and purchases by the recruits.

Robert FitzPatrick has published various objective analyses of 'Avon's' transformation into an 'MLM.'

pyramidschemealert.org/has-mlm-corrupted-avon/

Apologies, disappeared from these threads months ago and now am creeping back in and asking for advice!!
Anyone heard anything about ENJO??? There's someone lurking around on our local NCT sites trying to recruit, and want to find some helpful links to add a bit of balance . Have linked to some General MLM stuff (and of course to bot watch and timeless vie) but would love some stuff on ENJO in particular (tried googling with limited success so far)

Thank you!!

Ps glad to see our dear friend is still keeping an eye on these threads

pebbles

Quick Google found this

port1dust.tripod.com/the-terrible-truths-about-mlm-and-making-online-cash.html

There's at least one (formerly) highly reputable company, Toobusy, that has completely transformed its financial performance by tweaking its model. (In a declining sector as well.) There seem to be several paths in such companies. (Forgive that I haven't yet read the second of the links you posted.)

In one path, people can follow the 'old model' but there's also a 'new and improved model' running virtually alongside and people might find themselves influenced into adopting some of the practices of the latter even though they join expecting the former.

Always rather hilarious when a bot has a business page and their location is geo tagged and you look it up and it's a very very ordinary semi detached house in an inexpensive area....but their page is full of eeeeks and gaaaaahs about how successful they are and describes them as 'international business coach and six figure income creator'

Ha. It really is all a big bubble of deception

I think in my opinion Avon is being dragged down with all the other mlm's, and if there is a law suit re china its probably a good thing owing to the animal testing laws over there that are now tainting Avons name too, (the first company to completely ban testing is product on animals now sells in a country where animal testing is mandatory) I'm an avon rep, the business model is clear, the earnings are not fab, the sales leader that signed me up was fairly straight about that. its good in a sense for mums at home who just want to get out of the house, Avon can give them a bit of cash doing that. they also work on a territory basis, Avon assign you a territory to work on and no other rep is allowed to work that territory unless they are friends and family. where as most other mlm's do the whole you can sell the opportunity to so and so, and sod whos feet it treads on. They also stop the recruitment chain after three downlines, they know its not sustainable else. And the earnings arent based on credits like the other mlm's they base it on each teams sales then the top sales leader and uplines will get a percentage of what the bottoms ones team sales are, the bottom tier also get earnings for their team sales. but any downlines from the bottom sales leaders earnings only go up (as far as i can see to their upline. Also area mangers are employed directly from avon, and its the area managers that go out with sales leaders who train and help them recruit. they dont get paid like top bots do, they get a set wage per hour from Avon. Any incentives to recruit reps are given to reps, and are paid in products, for example at the minute there doing a £350 worth of products for your first four orders over a certain amount. No car plans, free air travel, villas or such. They also have an incentive for newly recruited sales leaders, for recruiting reps, these are cash bonuses, paid per campaign but you need to be out there recruiting to keep them and with the high turnover of reps it is a full time job, but you would be paid a minimum full time wage for it by the end of the year. But, if you dont acheive your target, then you lose the bonus, you do get a percentage of sales but now bonus. These are the main differences between avon and every other mlm. However I do know I wont be a rep forever, I do it as a way to meet people in the village I recently moved to, of course there are a few elderly customers who rely on me for their shampoo etc. So slightly harder to leave unless I hear someone else wants to rep in the village. Please excuse typo's etc on phone. Also your probably wondering why I'm here even though I'm involved. I like to see the whole picture, I also know where Avon is heading, and I like a bit of insight as what not to do to my friends, family and facebook. as a result I rarely post and just deliver to established customers in the village and carry a book with me because all my friends know i do it and will ask if they want to see one.

nahhhh wihout exception bots always say that it's other MLMs that give theirs a bad name.

I admit that Avon isn't the worst, but it has decided to change to be more like the others, they weren't unwittingly "Dragged down"

Oh I wouldn't say there were unwittingly dragged down, they adopted the sales leader mlm because they saw that the others were doing it and felt that was the way to move forward. I think they made it more sustainable to do it their own way but there definitely heading more mlm, I've been a rep on and off for years was even a sales leader about 12 years ago when they first introduced it. The fast track bonus is the only change I can see that they've made since then, bar online bits. The sales leader bit is not something I'm interested into be honest, It is a lot of effort for little reward even with the bonus. But with Avon you can just be a rep.

If I was ceo I'd completely do away with sales leaders and have more area managers and shrink the area's down. Then give reps more territory, leads for customers, and up the commission. Probably keep more reps that way.