MLM Bot Watch 18- chat about Utah based tragicomic cultastic racketeering scamalangadingdongs like Forever Living, Ariix, Herbalife, Younique, Juiceplus etc etc etc

[chuckingstones]

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it really is a brilliant way to fleece people though. Hats off to the founders.

but I just do it for the product discounts cos the heinz beans r so much more superior than other beans..

lifetree why didn't you read the links out of curiousity? I'm a professional and we happily ponder and debate the flaws and strengths of our profession and particular organisations within it? And I've risen at work precisely because they welcomed my views on what could be done differently. It rings alarm bells to me that you didn't want to click on those links

agreed.

Also, in her post she says she knows she will earn an income from it..i.e. wants the $$$.

That's the crutch of the problem right there: some people, generally those in first, WILL earn money off others. That's exactly why these schemes are so tempting.

and why they are so pernicious.

and there was another hint too: she mentioned an upline not doing as well as she/he could because 2 of his/her 3 legs weren't productive cos he/she wasn't working hard enough. That's classic MLM talk right there.

YOu can guarantee that the owners of this triangle will be raking it in either way.

I'm just wondering where I would put all that stuff from the hamper (I have to buy to qualify) every month that I don't use (misses point).

What do you do if your 'legs' aren't working hard enough/buying enough? Get new ones? What do you do with your old ones? How do you get confident that you have 'good' legs?

You'd just have to start having noodles and Maryland cookies for breakfast, washed down with Capri Sun, till it was all used up stopfaffing

Quite last the old "not working hard enough" chestnut.... That delicately skirts around the fact the whole scheme is designed to ensure the majority will lose money

It looks as if we're in 'grains of rice' (on the chessboard squares) territory here. Anyone good at math and prepared to work out how will be quickly the 'levels' will exceed the whole population of the planet?

A 'will be' remained in there by mistake. My apologies.

well, according to their website they want to take over the world. once they've done that, i dunno, maybe they'll colonize mars?

Yeah that was one of my most favouritest bits of the website last

Lots of "can't decide whether to laugh or cry" moments reading it

and there was another hint too: she mentioned an upline not doing as well as she/he could because 2 of his/her 3 legs weren't productive cos he/she wasn't working hard enough. That's classic MLM talk right there

I'm not sure I understand this...how is that classic MLM talk? It's just factual - I haven't copied that example from anywhere, it's actually the case with my direct upline. Who IS earning more that her own upline - which kind of makes the supposed pyramid of earnings a bit squint, wouldn't you say?

throwing pebbles - I was busy typing my mammoth reply. I might have a browse of the links. But like I said, I know what they'll say - pretty much the same as most on this thread so nothing I've not heard anyway. Anyway, i'm in already now so a bit late for me even if I did read something that changed my mind!

Like I said, i'll see how it goes. I'll be honest and eat my words if i'm not earning in a few weeks. Nothing ventured and all that.

I think the biggest problem here might be just how you are earning - if you do, of course. Have you stopped to think about that?

Hmm being able to out-earn your upline doesn't stop it being a pyramid scheme unfortunately. In Vemma it was possible to do that too, and the FTC shut them down for being a pyramid scheme.

Throwing pebbles - I've just had a read of the pyramid scheme 7 questions link.

IMO a few of them don't directly apply to LTW because it's a different take on a MLM companty. My thoughts are:

1. Do you have to pay for the right to sell the product or service?

No. It's a profit sharing grocery company and you're not selling anything.

1. According to the company’s compensation plan, how are you going to make money? (regarding clarity)

LTW's compensation plan is clear and objective - it took a couple of reads for me, to be certain, but it's not steeped in obtuse phrases or undecipherable babble. It's straightforward and transparent (whether you agree with it or not)

1. How does the business actually function in practice?

Again, fairly straightforward to understand. LTW buys branded goods from manufacturers and wants people to buy their Nescafe, their Flash, their Dolmio and their Aquafresh from them rather than Tesco. They sell at RRP and make huge profits - and pay their members to advertise rather than by traditional methods.

1. Will you make more money recruiting new people or selling the company’s product or service to strangers?

This is one that I don't think really applies - you're not selling anything on to strangers. But without a doubt, LTW is earning more from people who are introduced buying groceries from them (at £100 profit per month for LTW for a qualifying shop) than from collecting people's £35's.

1. Can you actually make money selling the product or service to the public?

Again, not hugely relevant because you're not selling anything. But, as in number 4, it's clear to see that LTW makes it's profit mainly from the sale of groceries.

1. How many people that join the company actually recoup their initial investment? (Or put another way, what is the failure rate of participants?)

I have no idea. I know that there are people earning a lot. Many earning enough to keep them there. I also know people who have joined, tried for 6 days to introduce friends and given up or lost interest when it's not the instant money spinner with no effort that they thought it would be. And it IS to do with effort, to an extent. It's not handed to you on a plate.

1. How will you make millions?

Aha - you don't. That much is obvious. No one in the company has reached the top level yet (which isn't millions anyway!)- although there is ONE who is getting close.

On reflection, i'm still comfortable with the conclusion that I came to when I initially did my research - that it's a genuine company and not an illegal pyramid scheme.

How do you mean Cozie - the ethics of it?

Thank you for your input MM.

I said up thread I was confused about where the money came from and tbh I am none the wiser. I didn't think there was huge profits in the selling of baked beans and oxo cubes - but perhaps I am wrong.

2% cash back I can get, but buying a shop and getting paid that back makes my brain hurt because I can't see how that can happy. The £35 joining fee (have I understood that right?) wouldn't go far towards paying 1000's a month.

I may just be missing the obvious but I can't see it I really can't.

It's an Ampound triangle, MrGrumpy. It only works as long as long as a continuously expanding sea of people are spending large amounts of cash to buy wampum they wouldn't normally give house room to. Sorry and all to anyone who has joined up.

none of the other MLMs are illegal either Miney, nice try though.

If you want to know what some of their "special" offers cost look at this link.

Point for note, Tesco (other reputable supermarkets are available!) are currently doing East End chopped tomatoes for 4 for £1, Robinsons 2 for £2, Rubicon 8 for £3.79, so their "special" offers aren't actually that special. I'd hate to see the price of some of the other products and wouldn't like to think what you get for £165 a month (we may pay that much each month for food etc, but actually get to pick from thousands of products including fresh and frozen, still get points to exchange for holidays etc plus getting 2% cashback).

My answers to questions:

1. Do you have to pay for the right to sell the product or service?

Miney said: No. It's a profit sharing grocery company and you're not selling anything.

Last says: you have to pay to join up and spend a regular amount via redirecting your grocery spending to LTW - so yes.

1. According to the company’s compensation plan, how are you going to make money? (regarding clarity)

Miney says: LTW's compensation plan is clear and objective - it took a couple of reads for me, to be certain, but it's not steeped in obtuse phrases or undecipherable babble. It's straightforward and transparent (whether you agree with it or not)

Last say: let's see it then.

1. How does the business actually function in practice?

Miney: Again, fairly straightforward to understand. LTW buys branded goods from manufacturers and wants people to buy their Nescafe, their Flash, their Dolmio and their Aquafresh from them rather than Tesco. They sell at RRP and make huge profits - and pay their members to advertise rather than by traditional methods.

Last: except that you have to redirect your grocery money to LTW, and get at least 3 recruits under you to do the same thing, and then they have to get 3 recruits under them EACH, and so on into infinity/pyramid scheme with products. Are you being paid to make YT vids for LTW? Signs? Magazine ads? Copywriting? nope, you're being paid to bring people into the pyramid.

1. Will you make more money recruiting new people or selling the company’s product or service to strangers?

Miney: This is one that I don't think really applies - you're not selling anything on to strangers. But without a doubt, LTW is earning more from people who are introduced buying groceries from them (at £100 profit per month for LTW for a qualifying shop) than from collecting people's £35's.

Last: yes, and they have admitted as much - you are supposed to recruit at least 3 people under you and so on and blah blah /pyramid

1. Can you actually make money selling the product or service to the public?

Miney: Again, not hugely relevant because you're not selling anything. But, as in number 4, it's clear to see that LTW makes it's profit mainly from the sale of groceries.

Last: no cos there's like a grazillion grocery stores out there with cheaper prices.

1. How many people that join the company actually recoup their initial investment? (Or put another way, what is the failure rate of participants?)

Miney: I have no idea. I know that there are people earning a lot. Many earning enough to keep them there. I also know people who have joined, tried for 6 days to introduce friends and given up or lost interest when it's not the instant money spinner with no effort that they thought it would be. And it IS to do with effort, to an extent. It's not handed to you on a plate.

Last: no evidence or proof of anything either way.

1. How will you make millions?

Miney: Aha - you don't. That much is obvious. No one in the company has reached the top level yet (which isn't millions anyway!)- although there is ONE who is getting close.

Last ^^ allegedly...

I didn't think there was huge profits in the selling of baked beans and oxo cubes

There really is - the profit margin on groceries (the difference in the manufacturer price to the final retail purchase price advertised in shops) is huge.

Every product LTW sells has a price in £ that it costs you to buy (which is around the RRP...some a bit more, some a bit less, like most supermarkets will vary) and a PV (profit value).

So a jar of Dolmio sauce might be £1.10 to buy on LTW, and counts as 0.60 PV. Which means for every jar of Dolmio bought, the company earns £0.60 in profit.

That is much more than your average supermarket or corner shop would earn by selling it to you, because of the extra stages/staff/advertising and all the rest that typical retail outlets have. That's where the money is...the money that LTW saves by having no expensive-to-run retail outlets, no advertising, no retail staff and all the rest. And it's that profit (or part of it) that gets ploughed back to provide the earnings for it's members.

That's what makes it different to a pyramid scheme, because you're right - it's not the £35's earning LTW the profit, it's the sale of the groceries with none of the expenses of other supermarkets to bring the profit down.

I imagine that HMRC are licking their lips on this one.

Well... A street view of the ltw address was fascinating... 😳