MLM Bot Watch 18- chat about Utah based tragicomic cultastic racketeering scamalangadingdongs like Forever Living, Ariix, Herbalife, Younique, Juiceplus etc etc etc

[chuckingstones]

Eyespying's blog
Timeless Vie Blog
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Bot Watch Blog
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Trying - it's a tricky one.

Even if you craft a considered, reasonable response, she'll probably twist it, and you'll be written off as one of the haterz. You've politely refused her attempts to become part of the amaaaayzing opportunity three times in the past six months so it sounds like she's already been brainwashed.

If you're feeling brave, tell her to remove your name from her "Who do you think you know list" and ask her to create a "Not in my lifetime list" so she can put your name right at the top of it in GREAT BIT LETTERS.

If she persists, direct her to TV. :D

Whatever you say to her, keep it short and sweet.

For now, she's lost to reality. Eventually, she'll wake up, but it'll take a while.

Ok, I think I'll ignore. Not going to lie, a bit of me wants to poke the hornets nest and make then see the light but I think I'd be wasting my breath unfortunately.

I was hoping for something short, snappy but not "it's a pyramid scheme you bloody idiot!" as I know they just don't see that! Something like "sorry but I have to say no. The ethics and morals employed by your boss really do not sit well with me and so I find myself unable to promote this in any way, let alone part with my own money to see them profit further"

But.... Do I have the back up of facts if she comes back to question this? I feel you all may be able to help??

Also, I really couldn't give a shiny shit if I'm a hater!

Read Timeless Vie and the other links in the Opening Post.

(For yourself, for edification.)

Thank you

Poke or ignore, hmmm may decide tomorrow when the wine wears off!

Has anyone got a link to the anti-Timeless Vie page? I can't find it.

I need advice please!!
Nobody seems to have mentioned this company but they are definitely MLM- Norwex.
A company that predominantly sells cleaning products, enviro cloths etc but does skin care too.
I very very stupidly signed up ( no sign up costs ) too good to be true :)

I then realised that nobody I know would pay £80+ for a mop!
Am getting hounded by them on FB, lots of Huns, top seller, massive statements and claims.
The downside is if you don't sell around 2k worth of products in the first 2/3 months you have to pay for the original kit which is £200 which I'm now stuck with.

Anyone heard of them?
Thanks
( disclaimer- I love cleaning and honestly thought i could sell this stuff but once I looked deeper i haven't even attempted it ) sooo expensive.

Toobusytowee never a bad time to stress the absurd odds against "winning" with an MLM! A favourite article for me is the Baffler on Amway:
thebaffler.com/salvos/dreams-incorporated

The author mentions "success" in Amway odds in a footnote:

"[12]Amway gives some idea of real chances for success in its “Amway Business Review” pamphlet, which the FTC requires it provide to all prospects. The “Business Review” is an ingenious mixture of mandated honesty and obfuscatory spin: The average monthly gross income for “active” distributors, for instance, is revealed to be a meager $65 a month; but the “Review” leaves out the median income and the net profit, both of which would probably be negative. Likewise, it states that “2 percent of all ‘active’ distributors who sponsor others and approximately 1 percent of all ‘active’ distributors met Direct Distributor qualification requirements during the survey period.” From this, it derives the optimistic conclusion that “once again, the survey demonstrates a substantial increase in achievement for those who share the business with others.” Increase implies that there are some non-sharing distributors who succeed; an alternate reading of the statistics would be that all distributors try to share, none succeed without sharing, but only half are able to share. It’s also a measure of Amway’s PR savvy that every article I’ve seen (even the critical ones) that mentions the number of Directs uses the 2 percent, rather than the more accurate 1 percent, figure."

Tryingthisonefornow I sympathise. It might help you to consider that your friend has joined a religious cult. A polite, sympathetic reply would suffice. You like your friend but have no interest in her new direction. A link to an MLM-critical site might assist. At the risk of drowning y'all in quotes, here's my 2p on MLMs vs legitimate businesses. Any use?

.

Bottom line at the top: "MLMs make money by exploiting the salesforce"

Legitimate companies (LCs) use salespeople to sell their products. LCs pay
their salespeople basic plus commission on sales. LCs fund training, meetings, and kick-off events. LCs supply sales materials and tools free of charge. LCs incur, therefore, some costs per salesperson. LCs do not make money on salespeople purchasing their products. LCs make sure that each salesperson has a designated area such that salespeople don't saturate the marketplace. And of course, LCs don't allow salespeople to recruit other salespeople without OK from the company!.

Multi-Level-Marketing companies (MLMs) pay no basic to Independent Business Owners (IBOs) who, purportedly, sell their products. MLMs charge IBOs for joining. MLMs then charge IBOs for - and make money from - all training, meetings, kick-off events, sales materials, demo kit and tools. Therefore rather than incur costs per salesperson, MLMs make money off each IBO. MLMs encourage IBOs to purchase their products and MLMs profit off these; MLMs use jargon to blur the distinction between IBO personal purchase and "sales". MLMs are happy that IBOs recruit new IBOs below them (as MLMs make money off each salesperson, whether they sell anything or not); due to this, there are no restrictions on IBO-saturation of an area.

Bottom line at the bottom: "MLMs make money buy exploiting the salesforce(IBOs). And I hav'nt even mentioned the cult-like mind control hooks that MLMs use! Beware!

MissRabbitHasTooManyJobs looks like the classic MLM. You might have to write off the initial £200. Though I would write an official letter to the company, copying your upline sponsor, politely stating that you would not wish to continue in the biz and requesting a refund against the return of the starter kit. They might refund you, to save hassle. But I would expect the legal forms you signed on joining will officially negate any refund. Check out the Mary Kay-focussed site www.pinktruth.com for info on claiming refunds from MK. Not easy but is possible

Back in the room. Caught up on threads now - Developments galore, eyes can still feel your presence the force is strong in you.

Found this, the latest Direct selling top global 100 list.
Let's play..... I spy Forever Living!
directsellingnews.com/index.php/view/2016_dsn_global_100_list#.VwioKM14XCR

xenu a superb analogy .

Could be worth a chat with trading standards missrabbit

Huge sympathies!

miss would you be interested in sending your story, plus screenshots of the FB hounding , to www.facebook.com/timelessvie as a pm? am thinking this is a really awful scam actually, that is a lot to have to sell in your first few months. They clearly just want to trick people into buying the starter kit

I really advise against poking the hornets nest. I did in an attempt to get my JP bot to come to her senses (she was making medical claims etc, I used the statement from Botwatch publicly) and forgot she was effectively in a cult, I have reminded her I am here for her whenever she needs me but made it very very clear I think JP is a load of crap. I fear I've pushed her deeper.

Jut a bit more maths for you. I couldn't work out the equations I needed last night but I must have dreamt about it because I woke up knowing the answer.

In my last sums I worked out how much bots would be earning based on an income disclosure statement. I worked out that if a statement says a bot earned £100 a month, based on a snapshot of bit numbers, they would actually have earned £51.25 on average. This is taking into account the 90% leaving over a year.

I've just done more sums for the next year with 100 people still joining each month but with the 615 people left over from the previous year.

This time, their earnings would be £37 a month.

It's a difficult one, Suffolk. You expect your friend/acquaintance to be the person you've known but they're generally not. They're mostly under direction and no longer listening to you or capable of previous or independent behaviour patterns. There might be the odd exception of someone who is genuinely tentative but, as I said, I just wouldn't take the risk. I'd stop engaging.

Huge sympathies, missrabbit. You've been given advice above but you may indeed just need to bite the bullet on that £200. Look at it as 'could have been so much worse' by reading some of the stories on the links in the OP and other places. This is the sort of reason why people become so energised about MLM activity. Hang around.

Suffolk, there is a school of thought that once someone joins a cult/MLM, they start making themselves a new personality so they can be the same as their uplines and think in the way they have been told. Their old personality is still there but pushed to the side. If you wanted to help your friend, you would need to speak to both personalities differently.

Say to the prospecting bot personality "no thanks." Change the subject.

Engage with the old personality by chatting about things you used to do, hobbies you used to engage in, celebrities you used to follow, whatever. Keep the links to the old personality there.

By doing this, you are not making yourself the enemy. You would be helping them maintain links to their real selves.

I rather like that thought, Toobusy. It would require quite considerable 'alertness' though I would have thought? (To ensure that you kept the relationship in the vein you felt was appropriate?)

Perhaps not an approach to take with someone who wasn't previously deeply of value to you? (Because you wouldn't likely feel 'easy' in their company for some considerable time. )

Oh, just realised a mistake I made. Scrap my last sums. I essentially added people but kept the earnings the same. That's not right. My initial sums still stand though.

Anything she posts to do with our old connection I like or comment on, trying to keep that old connection going but it's tough, there is so little amongst the JP stuff (she hardly used FB before it)

Is the relationship with her worth that finding it hard going? (Genuine question that of course.)

Yes Cozie, it would be very draining. Easier to do through emails/ FB etc than in person. You would have to have a pretty solid, deep relationship to have enough common ground to keep it going. I you were going I meet up with them socially, you'd have to make it where there is little opportunity to discuss MLM and plenty of opportunity to think about other things. Like a trip to the cinema or a concert or... I'm getting stuck now but you get my drift.

Another tactic you could use is to get the person to talk about their pre MLM self. E.g "before FL you were interested in training to be a teacher. Why were you interested in that? How far did you get in researching it? I think you'd make a good teacher."

Keep the path to their old selves clear. Their old self used to be able to think critically.

Talking about old stuff is not seen by bots as harming to their botself because that personalty and their MLM are not being engaged with.

It might be nice for your bot friend to be able to revert to their old selves in your company. Send links on FB to stuff they might like.

At this point in time I honestly don't know. I just worry she's going to end up in lots of debt (she's the main bread winner)

I have decided with my own bot that it is too much effort to keep up a relationship where I can do all of the above. I didn't know her well enough to have enough to keep it going.

My tactic for her is not unfriending her, liking the occasional non-MLM status and just watching and waiting. I don't want her to feel abandoned but I will not engage with her botself.