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MLm-bot watch - now including Timeless Vie!!

971 replies

CheekySmile · 29/09/2015 12:37

Continuing the discussion of the MLMs Forever Living, Herbal Life, Juice Plus, Younique etc, plus our very own MN-MLM Timeless Vie!

www.facebook.com/timelessvie
twitter.com/timelessvie

Previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/legal_money_matters/2437667-MLM-bot-watch-FL-Juice-Plus-Younique-etc

OP posts:
Thread gallery
67
lazycoo · 27/10/2015 06:41

Cake and Wine for dreaming and cat! Totally agree with the companies house analysis and the fact that MLMs make their bots paranoid. It's clearly deliberate - they foster the them and us attitude just like all other cults.

TV is at 191 likes and engagement on some posts is at 1000+. Any ideas for the page send them in a private message if you don't want to identity with it publicly on FB. I like the odd thing from my own FB page (but not much as I don't want to give myself away).

sparkleyes · 27/10/2015 08:26

Hello I've been following this thread for a while but haven't had a bit of my own. Good news one is coming to our school Christmas fair I can hardly contain my exitement! I wonder if they will be recruiting!!!

xenu1 · 27/10/2015 08:35

Wrt Neal's Yard and Avon: "You are normally ok as it's direct selling without the recruiting bollocks you get from FL, Younique, etc"

Avon is going to the DarkSide...
seekingalpha.com/article/3566276-mlmed-why-avon-is-fading-away?auth_param=174gij:1b1ns7j:32ce71fc33e270978cf866f75d93564a&uprof=45&dr=1

There's lots more on the other MN MLM-thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/legal_money_matters/2446930-FL-MLM-Thread-3?pg=11

mobiusgeek · 27/10/2015 08:40

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PopcornFrenzy · 27/10/2015 09:32

FL car plan, not really sure what it means

MLm-bot watch - now including Timeless Vie!!
Brysonette · 27/10/2015 09:51

A particularly scary Facebook quote from an ACN bot:
"So you started chasing your dreams & want to make it big?
If you can get past your family, friends and the internet you will get rich...
Signed,
EVERY MILLIONAIRE
P.S and the funny part is, when you make it they won't even remember and they be first to congratulate you!! So why would you even care?"
He's reached high up in ACN and his accounts are due to be filed next month Hmm

bunchedpanties · 27/10/2015 10:22

How toxic Brysonette Confused

bunchedpanties · 27/10/2015 10:23

TV could do with a meme about not worrying about standing on people on the way up the greasy pole ladder as they'll all forgive you when you are a Millionaire.

ablackcatcalledjohohohohohn · 27/10/2015 10:50

Something like this? Grin

MLm-bot watch - now including Timeless Vie!!
mobiusgeek · 27/10/2015 11:10

So from that car plan image I assume..

You have to sell 50cc then 100cc and 150cc in 3 consecutive months (So 200cc in a 12 week period) to then achieve supposed payments of £263 for 36 months. This figure of £9468 (£3156py) is wildly different than the figures I have seen from at least 3 bots, however.

They don't half make this confusing! - but then again we know that's the aim of the game. There will also be a mountain of t&c's to go with that, including having to stay 'active' for that time. If true, then that £263 might go some way to contributing to their mountains of expenses and help them to stock up with even more products for 'self use'.. And so the cycle continues until the money gets more serious, the debts get bigger alone with the level of deception... and all for what? Confused

mobiusgeek · 27/10/2015 11:11

(Sorry my maths is off , that's 300cc within a 12 week period)

bunchedpanties · 27/10/2015 11:49

Cat perfect!

DreamingOfTheBeach · 27/10/2015 12:00

How much did we work out that a cc represents?
Did someone suggest £50 of sales?
That would equal £15,000 worth of sold product is it did.
Assuming they dont get the commision on that stock sold as they are going for the car plan instead,At a 30% commision they would be sacraficing £4500 of their income.

Plus, imagine how many attempts it would take to shift that much stock?
How many reps would be tempted to to buy their own stock to up their cc levels?

Still very confusing, will try and work it out a bit more

LittleMissStubborn · 27/10/2015 12:35

I think a cc is rewarded with £50, but they have to have £150 of retail to earn a cc

DreamingOfTheBeach · 27/10/2015 13:04

Yikes if that's true, 1cc = £150 of product sold, they would need to sell 45k of product to reach that point (£150 x 300cc )

mobiusgeek · 27/10/2015 13:32

Okay. I'm confused but taking a stab:

If one recruit = 2cc for the 'business in a box' I reckon that's done to entice people to recruit rather than sell instead. So let's say a cc of product is deliberately harder to achieve than to simply recruit and get 2ccs in the bag. Let's say therefore, that a cc of product is about £110 retail to be generous. (It may well be anything from 100-150 of retailed goods though, I don't know.)

From each cc, bots get about 30% commission. So let's say 'John' is an assistant supervisor (entry level bot after handing over his £200)

John gets £33 profit per cc to the company's £77 every time he sells £110 worth of shit product. The company then gives out a smaller random %'s of their £77 John's upline. After all that divvying up, let's say fl get about £50profit for every cc sold. (The products probably cost about £1 to manufacture too so they probably do get about £50pure profit, if not more)

John has £33. Upline get a few quid each and fl get £50 per cc.

After peddling to anyone and everyone from his 'warm list' (thus alienating himself from the same people and spending every God given hour 'recommending' the snake oils) John somehow manages to recruit a shedload of suckers and therefore sells/recruits 300ccs worth of product between him and his downline in a 12 week period.

This is where it starts to get more confusing.

300ccs = £33000 product (300x110)

John gets £33 per cc for every product he sells PERSONALLY. If he did all that himself then he would get about £9900 for 3 months work and fl work pocket about £16,500)

If we divide his 9900 by 3 for the 3 months it took to achieve = 3,300pm - 20% tax = £2640 profit per month for retailing £33,000 product single handedly.

Now, I'm sure even Alan sugar himself couldn't shift that amount, so most of his cc's probably comes from recruiting others and getting them to recruit and retail too. But John only gets between 2 & 12% for every cc his downline makes. So that's already a lot less than the figures above even though fl get the same amount of profit regardless.

Fairly quickly, the bots all figure out that it's much easier to sign someone up and get their 2ccs instead of trying to sell, ahem, sorry 'recommend' £220 worth is aloe per cc.

2ccs worth of product = approx £220 product sales (= 2 clean 9s or 44 toothpastes Confused)

Or INSTEAD: simply recruit 1 bot and get them to hand over £200 instead of selling 44 toothpastes. All bots have to be 4 cc active to qualify for commissions (which means about 30constant customers in a month EACH - I saw this on a fl presentation somewhere) or they can recruit 1, sell 1 clean 9 and buy a cc for 'personal use'.

Woah this is getting long and I'm confusing myself.

300ccs also = 150 new sign ups in your downline (50per month = more than 1 per day!)

Or 75 enthusiastic downline members each committed getting 4ccs per month of their own ..

Or in personal sales
= 7,200 toothpastes Or 300 clean9s

I think it's obvious which option People will go for... And so the infinite cycle continues.

Like juggling with 75 balls whilst trying to keep up appearances. If you drop one then we'll take your car away. And your castle. Oh, and don't forget you have to spend all your profits you've earned by relentlessly juggling and alienating your nearest and dearest for a living, on everything from the tablecloth for your 'fun parties', Petrol for endless product launches, marketing spend for online ads, tables at craft fayres and charity events. And mindset tapes, pro planners, success day tickets, hotel stays.. The list goes on.

FUN! #dreambig

Ps. As a disclaimer, this is all my opinion and I am speculating on figures and facts based on a LOT of reading/researching and gathering information from this thread, actual bots social media etc. I've also spent a lot of time typing his so am not gong to preview it as it'll take me all day to tweak and edit so just going to put this out raw and hope you guys can read through it Grin

CheekySmile · 27/10/2015 13:35

Slide 10 of this presentation shows 1CC is roughly £135 wholesale.

That makes it about £195 of products sold at Suggested Retail Price.

OP posts:
CheekySmile · 27/10/2015 13:38

Whoa! Cross-post Mobius! Will sit and ingest your post when the little one is napping later!

OP posts:
CheekySmile · 27/10/2015 13:49

There's a nice summary of FL here that everybody who is considering joining should read!

OP posts:
mobiusgeek · 27/10/2015 14:08

Grincheeky - hope it makes some sense.

Shock I also thought I was being generous with £110retail per cc

So Sell recommend £195 of product (x2clean 9s, 20x £13shampoos or 39 toothpastes!Shock) to achieve 1cc, or simply recruit 1 person for £2cc Hmm seems balanced...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I read that the law that passed mlms apparently states that 70% of the products sold must be to non-distributors for it not to be classed as a pyramid.

With these figures it is clear that not even a bot who LOVES the products as much as they claim, would be willing/bothered to retail all that when it's made far easier/attractive to recruit to get to that elusive '4cc active' status and qualify for your commissions/bonuses too -( which you wouldn't even get unless you did have your own recruits/downline in the first place?!) wtf

DreamingOfTheBeach · 27/10/2015 14:59

Great link cheeky

CheekySmile · 27/10/2015 15:21

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mobiusgeek · 27/10/2015 15:27

ethan sums all my wittering up quite well Grin

" my opinion, with anyone able to get discount prices for free there will be little or no retail market for Forever Living Products . With little chance of selling products at retail, there is no real business opportunity other than recruiting people into the business opportunity and profiting off of their personal product purchases."

LittleMissStubborn · 27/10/2015 15:49

If the profit was in the product then you really wouldn't want to recruit people on your doorstep. I know Avon has slightly gone to the dark side but my Avon lady doesn't try to recruit me. After all I would want my road as as my patch.

mobiusgeek · 27/10/2015 16:37

I don't know how Avon has changed recently, but they were generally less dodgy as Representatives were generally assigned 'patches' for a fair share of customer base, meaning the intention was indeed to sell product. The evil mlms don't have patches and you can recruit everyone on your street if you want which is stupid.