FL thread 2

[mortil2]

To follow on so to not lose what is such an interesting thread

Hoppinggreen I presume you are you referring to 'ACN?'

'ACN' has already drawn the attention of certain concerned religious leaders in UK Asian communities, along with the wider 'MLM' phenomenon.

'ACN' evangelists are no more, and no less, deluded than any other 'MLM' fanatics.

In the final analysis, whatever effectively-unsaleable wampum is being used to dissimulate the closed-market swindle in any blame-the-victim 'MLM income opportunity' cult, is not that important.

Remember, in the classical allegorical myth of the 'Trojan Horse,' the wooden structure is also painted with complex patterns on the outside, to distract the excited Trojans from the danger lurking on the inside.

I have read them Eyespying and a lot of the other links on this and the first thread and they make me uneasy.
I find the tone of the blog and articles as psychologically manipulative as the cultism it describes. Almost like an anti-cult cult. I feel the need to back away because as fascinating as I find the science behind the cult, it feels like very dangerous territory.
Reading that blog is like watching a street evangelist.

CainInThePunting First of all, let me say that I uderstand your point of view. However, by their very nature, cults are organizations which are dedicated to stopping individuals from thinking critically. This can be described as mental manipulation, but it can also be described as intellectual castration.

Sadly, you will find that any accurate thought-provoking formulation of the cult phenomenon will always disturb the existing beliefs of certain readers, but this isn't the fault of the person who arrives at, and presents, the formulation. The reason for this, is because the full explanation of how cultism functions, is invariably a threat to an individual's self-esteem. In other words, a full-understanding of cultism often requires a person to think the unthinkable.

If you examine 'MLM The American Dream Made Nightmare,' you will find that a basic point which the author is always repeating, is that an observer should never make the classic mistake of descending into the 'us vs them', 'negative vs positive', 'good vs evil' dualistic scenarios which modify cult adherents' behaviour and personalities, because these are fiction presented as fact. A cult observer should apply his/her critical faculties at all times, and remain outside cultic games of believe.

Thus, to label 'MLM The American Dream Made Nightmare', 'Anti-cult' or 'evangelic,' is to stand on its head the accurate thought-provoking formulation that its author has arrived at and presented.

I read one of the blogs. It was written in the online equivalent of green felt tip. That, rather than intellect on the part of the reader, is the problem with it

Apologies Eyespying I meant not to label the blog those things but that's how reading it made me feel. I feel guilty, as if reading it obligates me to involve myself.

In other words, a full-understanding of cultism often requires a person to think the unthinkable.
If I understand you correctly then this is the part of it that makes me so uncomfortable. It makes my worry about the economic prospects of my FLbot quite simplistic and in fact the concern about her finances could be just the tip of the iceberg when what is actually going on is far more sinister. If that is the case do I then have a moral obligation to try to help that individual, if letting it play out and just being there for her afterwards as I planned, is negligent on my part? However, I suspect that trying to draw her out of the mire is beyond the abilities of my armchair psychology. Plus, with the weight of FL behind her am I in more danger from her if I were to engage!
This is probably why I feel the need to back away.

I also wonder after reading the description of the family torn apart by the Amway cult, if the author has considered the impact that experience left in terms of psychological damage? I would hope that professional help, some kind of counselling perhaps, had been sought.

So happy to have my sister join me in our number one team!

also, photos still up and no sign of anyone being "fired" from FL for implying bogus claims.

Have been reading this thread out of curiosity (don't think I know anyone involved in mlm) but thought this article that appeared on my fb today might interest people www.capetownlately.co.za/ctl-opinion-a-sober-look-at-worldventures/4/

My FLBot has been promoted to Supervisor, apparently the next level is Assistant Manager.
Does anyone know the structure of this organisation? How many levels of promotion are available to these self employed business owners?

CainInThePunting Thank you for taking the trouble to explain your position so clearly and honestly.

Your concern for this 'FLP' adherent is admirable, but you also realize the danger anyone sensitive runs by becoming too deeply involved. Trying to bring cult adherents back to reality, can be an exhausting and thankless task.

The author of 'MLM The American Dream Made Nightmare,' dealt with the damage inflicted on himself, and his family, by the 'Amway' cult, by putting his own personal interests to one side and concentrating on finding the truth about the wider-cult phenomenon. He also had some fabulous friends and he maintained his sense of humour.

In order to examine the cult phenomenon satisfactorily, and in security, you need infinite ammounts of time and space, a certain level of sensitivity, skin like a rhino and a good sense of humour. It also helps to have reliable persons (fitting the same description) to guide you.

ooh good find where to!

Cain, that's very interesting. The way they seem to offer the "freedom" of self employment and the structure of a hierarchical organisation.

Hoppinggreen By the way, you are aware that 'ACN' is the 'MLM' racket that has been fronted by Donald Trump?

Trump's recently declared payments of around half a million dollars for making just a few appearances at pay-through-the-nose-to-enter 'ACN' orgies of deluded self-gratification.

acninc.com/trump

CainInThePunting

These are the 14 main 'FLP' hierarchical levels. You will observe that hierarchical promotion, and future rewards, are clearly presented as being dependent on adherents recruiting (and maintaining) a specific number of adherents beneath them in the hierachical pyramid.

www.forevereaglegroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/FLP-Comp-Plan.jpg

2.bp.blogspot.com/-hjVte3gahpk/Tft5Au8DDLI/AAAAAAAAABA/vhyK-sOqzxA/s1600/FLP_marketing-Plan.jpg

myforever.co.za/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Leadership.jpg

I'm thinking about starting a light-hearted MLM bot watch thread for those of us who just want to do that. I'll come back and post the link here.

light-hearted thread here : www.mumsnet.com/Talk/legal_money_matters/2437667-MLM-bot-watch-FL-Juice-Plus-Younique-etc

I've put this on your thread lastuser but I'll put it here too. One of my bots posted this today. No additional info provided!

Talcum, that is outrageous!

someone PM'd me because they were concerned I was annoyed by the indepthy-ness of this thread. Just wanted to say no, I'm not at all, I just started the other thread because I think there are two kinds of people who want to talk about this stuff: the indepth-MLM-cult types and the more lighthearted hey look at what my Bot did now Types. That's all.

#freedom

For anyone else who is reading this thread, it's worth reading all of the first one first, things are made a lot clearer in the last few pages.
I've just had a lightbulb moment.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/legal_money_matters/2394271-Ive-been-sucked-into-forever-living-Why-do-I-feel-like-the-bad-guy?pg=1

As you were.

CainInThePunting Years back, a perceptive UK journalist, who had witnessed his wife (another journalist) turn into a jargon-spouting Ambot, confided to me, that you can either see clearly how cults work, or you can't.

The same guy was of the opinion that unless you actually witness someone you love undergo a sudden radical personality transformation, then you will never fully-understand, because you don't need to understand. However, I don't hold this view myself.

I'm now curious to know exactly what you found in the previous thread which made things 'a lot clearer?'

Are you referring to the fraudulent/criminal aspect of 'MLM' rackets or to the psychological/cultic aspect, or to both?

Perhaps you seen something else?

Hoppinggreen

Here is a very eloquent warning about 'ACN' for members of the UK Muslim community. The presenter begins to make the connection between 'MLM' and cultism.

This link was sent to me earlier this year, with a request for me to post an article about 'ACN.'

Eyespying

It doesn't matter, it's been discussed at length.

You might be able to offer me some practical advice though...?

I have decided I'm going to send my FLBot a message.
We have been through experiences together so I do care about her.
I don't feel that I can, in good conscience, let her go on making the choices she is making if I haven't made any effort to, I don't know, Do Something.

And if it doesn't work out, rather than her feeling ashamed and thinking I will say "I told you so", I want her to know that I 'have her back' as it were.

I also think that I'm close enough to her that I can have a word without it feeling like I'm dismissive of her grand plans, but not so close that she will see it as me undermining her.

I hope that is the case anyway.

Have you any suggestions or tips?

Cain, I had similar concerns and thoughts about a friend of mine. I refuse to lose a friend to FL. On another thread the suggestion was to think of it as similar to a friend having a dodgy new boyfriend. I imagine for many people it fizzles out. They get bored with making no money.