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FL thread 2

997 replies

mortil2 · 04/07/2015 07:20

To follow on so to not lose what is such an interesting thread

OP posts:
Thread gallery
47
MaryLennox84 · 21/07/2015 09:06

Ah, here it is:

14.3.3.6 Distributors shall not make claims as to the therapeutic, safety or curative
properties of the products. Only such statements or claims that are officially
approved by FLP or are as contained in the official FLP literature may be made or
used. No Distributor may make any claims that FLP products are useful in the
treatment, prevention, diagnosis or cure of any disease. Medical claims regarding
FLP products are strictly prohibited. Distributors should recommend to any
customer who is currently under a physician's care or any medical treatment, that
they seek the advice of their healthcare provider before altering their nutritional
regimen.
14.3.3.7 Unless FLP's prior written approval is obtained, projections of income earnings
and potentially misleading income representations are strictly prohibited. The
financial success of a Distributor depends entirely upon that Distributor's
FLP Policy (NDP) English for North America Revision 2010.02.23
individual effort, dedication, and the training and supervision the Distributor
provides to his or her downline and FLP business.

These are grounds for termination: gallery.foreverliving.com/gallery/FLP/download/Marketing/Co_Policy_Eng_NDP_NAmerica_Feb10.pdf

Eyespying · 21/07/2015 09:10

fisboneschokus Please don't forget that it has been very easy for 'MLM' racketeers to infiltrate Internet forums, and create doubt in the minds of commentators, by posing as satisfied 'MLM' participants who have never witnessed any lies being told, and who would never dream of telling lies themselves. It amazes me that certain members of MN flatly refuse to consider that some allegedly 'positive MLM experiences' are just another layer of the 'positive MLM' fairy story.

When examining 'MLM' rackets, one's critical and evaluative faculties should be applied at all times, even if that means appearing to be hard-hearted and rude.

There are always certain clues as whether persons claiming to be ordinary 'MLM' participants are genuine or not.

bettyberry · 21/07/2015 09:14

MaryLennox84 - so on those grounds my FL lady who posted before and after pictures and claimed it 'literally worked wonders' and 'cured an itch' on someone else is actually breaking the FLP rules because she is using it as an ad for that product? she used the words 'cure' several times.

I'm just trying to get it clear in my head whether its breaking those rules and I know for a fact if it was a magazine ad etc the ASA would be dubious of the claims (perks to having worked in advertising ;) )

Myturnnow4 · 21/07/2015 09:16

Mary I hope you keep posting and don't feel hounded/bored away from the thread.

(Louis Theroux has lived in the US for a couple of years now).

bettyberry · 21/07/2015 09:20

I should probably make it clear I have no issue with people selling these products If thats what they really want to do.

I do have an issue with the recruitment drive, the unsolicited Ads in my Facebook and twitter feeds, The false claims made by reps, the promise of big wages for little work, the implied ads that all those who sign up can earn large amounts, live a luxury lifestyle, get a new car etc etc. Its all false advertising and perpetuating a myth.

Plus, these things are free to see on public facebook pages so why isn't the main company coming down like a ton of bricks on these individuals who are damaging their brand? That's what I find so concerning. False claims made in the name of a brand; imagine if it was a regular shop they'd be all over it repairing the damage.

Eyespying · 21/07/2015 09:22

fishboneschokus When reading the latest intricate defence of the 'FLP' fairy story (from an apparently ordinary 'FL' adherent, MaryLennox84) remember that by creating impressive 'rules,' but then completely failing to enforce them, 'MLM' racketeers have effectively authorised the very crimes which they appeared to be seeking to prohibit.

Eyespying · 21/07/2015 09:28

Myturnnow4 Sorry, I should have said that Louis Theroux has just announced that he his moving in the USA, rather than to the USA.

www.realtor.com/news/celebrity-real-estate/bbc-documentarian-louis-theroux-is-renting-out-la-home/

xenu1 · 21/07/2015 09:45

MaryLennox84.Again, thx for your posts. You seem honest and that is dangerous when dealing with MLMs as you may be unaware that your upline is either lying to you, or more likely, fooling themselves.

Briefly; all MLMs live by exploiting the sales force. You will be told:

  1. Use the products yourself (no-one ever really retails and that is how the business makes its money - from purchases by members)
  2. Use the tools/training (on which the biz/upline makes money)
  3. Attend all functions (seminars). Again, these cost and are hugely profitable for the biz/upline. Just think that each time FL fills the 02 @ £30 per head for a "success day"; that's £600k gross and the ticket prices are what pop groups charge!
  4. Recruit others.

Options 1 how the MLM itself makes money (no-one retails).
Options 2/3 is how the upline make money
Option 4 is spreading the cult

A danger is that the system is self-reinforcing; the costly trainings stress continuing in the system until you make it (or it reality wake up or go bankrupt)

Good luck anyway. Eric Scheibeler's "Merchants of Deception" is a very detailed account of his Amway nightmare, and he rose up in its ranks, quitting his job, being emulated and recruiting others - but losing money all the while. Its free at:

archive.org/details/MerchantsOfDeception

lazycoo · 21/07/2015 10:03

mary you've not told me why you wish those who are looking to con others well? The U.S. system where you don't pay to join is a red herring. We are UK based and so I don't see how referring to that explains or excuses anything. What legislation exactly is it that means that FL has to charge in the UK? As a solicitor I'm genuinely curious.

fishboneschokus · 21/07/2015 10:09

I appreciate your expertise, Eyes, and I also appreciate Mary and Lennox giving their own perspectives. Graciously.

I'd like to hear more from people with mlm experience.

I wonder about the numbers. Scientology claim 9 million or something like that. Their critics say 50,000 million. Scientology get that number from sales of Dianetics. To retain that 9m, how many did they recruit in the first place? How much is churn?

Where are the 90 pc who leave before two or five years?

What keeps them quiet, rather than warning others?

xenu1 · 21/07/2015 10:44

fishboneschokus
$cientology is not an MLM. Its a bait-and-switch fraud masquerading as a religion (unless you belief all religions are frauds :)) IMO its a bit off-topic for this thread.
wrt MLM "What keeps them quiet, rather than warning others?"
Well before the internet there was little one could do. Phil Kerns wrote "Fake it till you make it" - about Amway - and there were critical articles in the biz press (Forbes). Once the internet allowed freedom critical sites and he experiences of those scammed were able to be published. Amway (and $CN!) fought bitter legal wars to stop the truth emerging. The first real am-critical site was Sidney Schwartz's Amway the Untold story. Mirrors are up all over (www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Amway/AUS/) and its still entertaining. The (60+! pages of comments are fascinating; ambots clinging to the dream and many who found the site valuable explaining how they were caught by the MLM.
there are now of course many other valuable critical sites.

bettyberry · 21/07/2015 11:31

I really need to stop clicking on FB #foreverLiving hashtags. equal parts rage and giggles. Ah well, not a terrible way to spend the 5 minutes whilst the kettle boils... Still not sure how a laxative can prevent a heart attack... scratches head

FL thread 2
LilyAlpha · 21/07/2015 11:50

Because fat cells quiver @ the sight of all that gelly aloe goodness lol

TalcumMucker · 21/07/2015 12:44

Yes Lazycoo she just replied with a thanks and asked me how my holiday was. I haven't replied again as I don't really know her, I know she doesn't care what my holiday was like, and I don't want to get drawn into a conversation with her. I'm sure I'll hear from her again as I've learnt from this thread that to a FLbot a no isn't a no, it's a 'not right now'. I'm a prime target for her being on maternity leave at the moment.

Like someone else said earlier in the thread, I have no problem if somebody joins FL because they have made up their own mind, they believe in the products and want to sell something to make some money for themselves and their family.

I do dislike the crass way that they advertise the (apparent) money that they are making, to lure others in. I have a friend who runs her own business aside from her full time job and not once have I seen her post on FB about how much she is earning! I also hate that my FLbot seemingly tries to belittle the career choices that other fellow mums have made. 'We have another way' is a common phrase I see from her. Although I don't think she even knows what I do for a living, when actually I work from home 3 days a week and get to spend all of my free time with my 2 children, not having to using my laptop to peddle my wares simultaneously.

BromleyGal · 21/07/2015 12:59

It's all so disingenuous isn't it? My FLBot has just posted that they are now at their "amazing and huge 5 bed, 4 bathroom villa" in Florida. Of course, the subliminal message is that it is all down to the Company (always with a capital C) that they are Living the Dream. Hmm

MarthasHarbour · 21/07/2015 13:05

I have heard on the grapevine that a good friend has joined FL, and is already pissing people off by bullying them into going to her launch night and getting hissy when they say no. She hasnt moved onto our group yet (maybe because she knows my opinion of it). We shall see, she is already a fanatical user of FB so i may be able to entertain you all with her inspirational quotes!!

LilyAlpha · 21/07/2015 13:29

A 'company' that controls all its stages of production from the growth, to the harvesting of its aloe, right thru to the manufacturing of its 'superior' products, cutting out the middleman @ every stage.Then uses its own worker bees to market & distribute, making further huge savings to its production, manufacturing & running costs. By rights, it should be like a walmart of the aloe industry, even distributing to other large retailers in the market. Usually when a co's/retailers are in the enviable position of controlling all its stages of production & churning out products on such a massive scale, they pass on the cost savings to their consumers (think monopolistic co's like walmart, tesco et al). Fl does the complete reverse & treats their end users, who just happen to be their same worker bees that facilitated the savings in costs, in the 1st place, with utter contempt. Instead of reflecting all these savings into a competitive retail price, ensuring its dominance in a much more profitable open market, it grossly inflates the retail price of its products, to an unjustifiably non-competitive level. Then has the audacity to tell it's worker bees they're prohibited from selling products in the open market (which couldn't compete in any case), they should sell to friends/fam instead; use their own social media to 'recommend', as well as purchasing & using these grossly price inflated goodies, themselves...just to add insult to injury. If that isn't pisstaking enough, there are set minimal quotas that must be purchased for personal use & closed market distribution, no less than 'per month', worker bees will have to pay for some of the training material/tools provided ('which you can't succeed without because there's a magic formula to be followed), pay out of their own pockets to attend various events & presentations, pay their own travel expenses (even volunteers get travel & lunch expenses) do all necessary legwork required to make 'business work' with no financial assistance & give freely of their time to do so. All under the guise of being 'business owners', even though they have no legal franchise in 'the business' & are 'promoted' within a closed, hierarchical structure. Erm yh....what is there to question? It all seems above board to me, sign me up! *rolls eyes.

In any other business environment, this model doesn't make much sense, but when u place it in its true context, a pyramid scam with the added twist of (ruse) products, for legality purposes, it makes perfect sense. Oh but wait! My bad, it isnt a pyramid scam, its just a harmless mlm scheme Wink

bettyberry · 21/07/2015 13:52

tea break my FLbot is promoting the benefits of aloe heat lotion for sciatica. She put it on just as it started and 'wow, lifesaver!' No complaints about sciatica this morning...

slgsue1979 · 21/07/2015 14:13

Hi Mary, I was just wondering how the bonuses work?

I think you have been incredibly brave coming on to this discussion and I think that you should not feel uncomfortable by contributing as this helps people to understand things a bit clearer.

It is posts like these that really upset me (from NM's thread)

"I have been a distributor for FL for just over a year, having been recruited by a close friend. I can honestly say that it has been a good experience, but an expensive one. My views are that some of the products are good, but expensive. I did lots of research and found that (despite claims to the contrary) there are other sources of Àloe Vera which cost less...and organic to boot. FL is not organic. I could never find out anything about how well paid or well looked after their workers were...and I hated the constant pressure to recruit. I'm now embarrassed that I tried several times to recruit close friends in the mistaken belief that they would just love to join me on the venture. I now have a chest full of stuff that I bought to show...because I wanted to reach the monthly target.The success days prove that it can be done. However don't be fooled into thinking that you will be able to have total freedom with a forever business. If you really want to make a living you need to recruit...even people at the very top still need to recruit every month. of course easier then when you have the fancy car or house. ask direct questions of the person trying to recruit you. Expect to pay for training, and expect most of the training to be about recruiting. I hated being 'planned' (contacted by my upline and given weekly targets) because I knew in my heart it is really their profit they are trying to plan, and their promotions, even though they obviously want the best for you, it is effectively being 'managed'. I have seen some people do well....and others (many more) fade away...lately I have joined the latter. It has been enjoyable. I've learned lots...I just regret that I spent too much on products, and that I mixed business with pleasure, by profiting from, and recruiting/trying to recruit friends. I hope this helps someone....just because I couldn't stick it doesn't mean you can't, it IS possible to do well, for a very small minority of people!"

I can sort of understand the pressure of feeling as if you need to meet the "target" and have to buy yourself even though the likelihood of using anything is minimal. Personally I have 3 expensive kids and a husband so could never do this lol!!!

Annie65 · 21/07/2015 15:19

Sigsue that is very sad mainly because even though the person is saying they feel let down by the company, they are still sticking up for it, which is quite scarey. When my Sil first got involved with Fl I asked her if it was like Avon, to which she replied , in a very patronising voice, that is wasnt, which then got me curious to look into Fl further. To be fair she doesnt really put much about it on fb, but if you say you have a bad back or a stiff neck etc, she is there telling you about the wonderful Fl products. I find myself never complaining about any aches and pains when she is around lol. What I dont like is how they all seem to be best friends , I did see 1 post by a flbot saying she felt jealous of another flbots success, but she will try to repress it because thats what they tell them in training. I was speechless. Jealousy is a perfectly normal emotion

BromleyGal · 21/07/2015 15:22

So hat do you reckon, are the more senior FLBots so indoctrinated in the cult that they cannot form any relationships without having an end game plan? I am becoming increasingly suspicious of the motivations of one or two people I know....

lastuseraccount123 · 21/07/2015 15:25

agreed it's sad.

so, no evidence FL has fired anyone? hmm.

FL bot update: she's ordered new business cards and has a new website set up to present the 'business opportunity'

LilyAlpha · 21/07/2015 15:30

Sigsue, posts like that are pretty heartbreaking. I'm sure many tried & failed FL's end up with a chest full of stuff. From what I heard you have to be a dist for a year before u can qualify for a refund on unsold stuff & even then that's based on stringent conditions.

Amazed that even the top guys still have to recruit! I thought they got to relax & enjoy the house & car, not HAVE to advertise their possessions, just to draw more bots in. Who could be on a never ending recruitment drive,? Sounds exhausting & by that stage, u probably would've sold your soul to get there. Sad existence, if u ask me.

bettyberry · 21/07/2015 15:41

FLbot update : posted a video of her unpacking the starter kit complete with excited children (I think they want the box to sit in tbh)

#soexcited ?#?sharingiscaring? ?#?borrowthepupp? #love #goingmyownway

LilyAlpha · 21/07/2015 15:52

Bromley, I don't know about senior FLbots, but my aunt had never shown so much interest in me & kids, as she did when she was trying her utmost to recruit me lol. When I firmly told her & sponser 'no', response was "well maybe your situation will be different in 6 months time, will try u then!"
When myself (& other family members) began presenting her with evidence of the true nature of FL along with adamant "hell no's" to her 'business propositions, I was dropped like a hot potato...which suits me fine because the endless mssgs, calls & FL promotion was too much for me *sighs.

Where I saw just how manipulative she had become (or maybe always was, I dunno) is when 1 of my children became ill & had to go hospitall, she called (I believed out of genuine concern), only then to try & sell me some peach flavoured aloe stuff that she claimed would help!!! That for me, was final straw & I won't repeat what I said in my highly stressed, tired state, @ the time...too many expletives lol. I havn't heard a peep since, but look @ that! She only called to flog FL shite to me, so viewing her in different light now & has strained our relationship.

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