FL thread 2

[mortil2]

To follow on so to not lose what is such an interesting thread

My FLbot has been up for an hour working in her PJs. She loves being her own boss!

C9 is in stock - who would like to kickstart their summer and feel fab in only 9 days?

Who's free tonight to come along and hear how this bullshit opportunity may be just what you're looking for? !!!!!!!. Feel free to share with or tag friends who may be desperate interested too!

Also, she has a link to a youtube vid of FLP doing an experiment showing their Aloe is much more betterer than all other aloes.

I love it when she's on a tear.

what I have noticed is she gets very few likes and comments. Bless :(

That is crazy about the 1cc for personal use, but perhaps people have said that. That is the issue with MLMs is that there isn't one training....so it makes it very easy for people to tarnish the brand.

I get the incessant posting on FB is obnoxious. I'm in FL and I find it obnoxious that some people i know do it as well...or sign you up for parties you never wanted to "attend."

I am not going to continue to defend myself against being brainwashed. If you think I'm brainwashed, cool. Knock yourself out.

As far as taxes, yes we were told that as self-employed individuals, you have to sort out taxes. It isn't something done for you though. As a responsible adult, you should be sorting that out yourself. I've done plenty of other Self-employed work before in non-MLM (such as freelancing) and no one ever took me by the hand and told me I had to do my own taxes. It is something I figured out myself. It is something as an adult you are expected to know...though it is mentioned that it isn't tax free.

Someone was quoting that it costs £400 to sign up, which isn't the case. But I can understand people being wary of spending money to sign up.

So...yeah....I dunno what else to tell you. Just presenting from all sides! :)

A couple of personal questions Mary....what was your initial outlay? What is your minimum spend requirement per month? How much money have you actually made?

Yep. Aunt told me they're expected to buy certain amount each mnth & recommend to others

Mary why do you think FL doesn't sell it's products directly to the public on the net?

MaryLennox84 You will observe that I seldom use the populist term, 'brainwashed,' which is a 1950s translation of an ancient Chinese expression which can be more accurately translated as 'wiping the mind.'

I prefer to say that groups like 'FLP' use co-ordinated devious techniques of social, psychological and physical persuasion designed to shut down indviduals' critical and evaluative faculties in order to exploit them and prevent them from complaining.

You have appeared on thread apparently accepting that these techniques have been present in 'FLP,' but you insist have not been subjected to them.

Somewhat, ironically, my point is that vulnerable persons who have been subjected to these techniques (without their fully informed consent), absolutely deny that they have, because it's a threat to their self-esteem.

MaryLennox84 - I just wondered if that was part of all the training (considering you have to pay a small fortune to attend training days according to some of the FL ladies). Not everyone is that switched on when it comes to that stuff. I've done my own taxes and attended free courses to show you how to do them when I first started (better investment of my time to go to one than bugger it up and pay!)

I'm just curious how it all fits together.

With the commission at 30%, how much you'd have to pay in tax ( assuming you go over the threshold), NI contributions and pension after you take your cut I am genuinely interested just how much money is in it. Especially when you are encouraged to snap up new recruits in your area and 9/10 they are your friends.

I'm watching my FL lady on FB - its all very public - and she's already signed up 3 new people after her SIL signed her up. None work in the traditional sense (SAHMs) so their pool of people would be quite small, mutual friends and baby groups. I cannot see the viability.

I've seen some blogs by FL distributors suggesting you'd need 20-30 customers to turn a small profit but it still doesn't specify how much you'd earn. 20-30 customers a month is a lot! You'd really have to do the hard sell to get someone to keep buying every month.

Gotta say running your own business is pretty awesome! Push it hard and reap the rewards. Free car. Free Holiday. monthly bonuses, chairmans Bonus and more! I'm helping people achieve all these things and I'm currently looking for motivated and focused people to do the same. Inbox me if you'd like to find out more and achieve your dreams. The day your dreams get bigger than your excuses.. Contact me.

Latest FLBot FB message.

And an FL friend of FLBots. This one posts loads of FL related stuff.

*Just finished looking at our figuires for the first 4 months we have had working from home and i nearly passed out lol...our little home based business has turned over is £21,920 in 4 months.
Just totally astonished and emotional really how just 2 ordinary people have built a respectable business from their home spending time with their children.

Most amazing thing? getting paid to show others to do the same......were not done here plenty of seats left on this bus if anyone wants to come on a lifechanging journey with us get in touch ....?#?breakthemould? ?#?aspirehigher?*

Hi Mary - thx for contributing and we appreciate the input! You wrote:

"...my sponsors have been able to quit their jobs, but they also work very hard and have a passion for the business. "

I have no evidence for or against but I would strongly doubt they are making serious (or any) money unless they are far enough up the food chain to benefit from the tools profits, and cuts from the profits on events like success days. Did they supply you an audited profit-and-loss account that shows their business performance? They should have one for tax reasons and you could always ask to see it - you could say it might help you in your turn?

Anyway, good luck and keep us in the loop!

My sister got sucked into this nightmare a couple of years ago, she and her partner have been completely brainwashed by it. We used to be very close and talked every day about anything and everything, but since FL took hold she has changed. I couldn't go to her house or speak to her on the phone without her or her partner trying to recruit me. My polite nature made it so that I had to sit and endure being talked at for hours on end about how amazing these products were and how you could get rich from selling this crap! And it is absolute crap, overpriced crap too! I am a professional beauty therapist and I make it my business to look at ingredients on bottles etc and question claims of miracle cures and wonder drugs. My questions were always sidestepped by promises of luxurious, FREE holidays and potential millionaire lifestyles, I was shown Youtube videos of "successful distributors" enjoying said holidays and lifestyles and watched in concealed horror at the glazed look in my sister and her partner's eyes. I said no on more than one occasion but somehow the word no fell on deaf ears and on they pressed. I started to spend less time with them, even ashamedly after the birth of their first child. They were even trying to recruit in the maternity ward where my nephew (their "miracle Aloe Baby") was born, less than 24 hours after he entered the world.
I was asked to sign up last year to enable them to earn enough case credits to get to "manager" level, no expense to me, my sis and her partner were paying, my one condition was that I was NEVER to be hounded about this, on FB, Twitter or anywhere else in life, ever! The promise was kept for all of 10 minutes when my sister took the liberty of adding me to no less than 16 different Groups and Pages relating to this cult on Facebook. My news feed was instantly filled with inspirational quotes, motovational messages and countless invites to meetings, I had to spend an hour removing each and every blasted one. I never did a thing with the box of products I was sent, I don't know anyone who has £9.50 to spend on a 250ml size bottle of shampoo that smells like old lady, I still can't escape from it fully as that would mean blocking my own sister, so I continue to live in hope that she will come to her senses and start living in the real world again! Hope is all I have!

I will try to answer questions as best I can. Eyespying, sorry, but I'm totally ignoring you. I can't deal with all the allegations of mind control, etc.

Firstly, to buy in, it is £200, but you can get a smaller kit for £99. If you recruit in the US, they have no obligation to pay anything to join. It is some law that says you have to buy in in the UK. I'm not sure what it is. But yeah, I have signed up people in the US and they don't pay. They have an option to buy a sample box but it isn't required. You only make money off of them when they sell.

As far as taxes, I can't speak for all sponsors, but we were told we have to pay taxes and register as a business. My boyfriend is on that end as his name is on the business. He had never been self-employed previously, so I guess he was walked through it, I'm not sure.

The issue with the model is that training is fully up to the sponsors themselves and some people are just shitty at doing it. You can opt to go to extra training and away days, but it is not required. I have never personally gone. They do also do free online training for different things.

Forever Living is not meant to cure anything. Anyone who says otherwise is mistaken and/or desperate. It says clearly on the packaging this is not a substitute for a doctor or medication. A lot of people i know have said it has helped them with skin issues and it has helped me with my acne, but everyone is different. I would never tell someone it is going to cure UC or even their skin condition.

As far as I'm aware, you can purchase FL products directly. I just tried to check out on the website and it says an FBO distributor number is optional, so you can purchase just through them.

Yes, you get 2cc for every person you sign up and 35% commission at the beginning off of products. The commission increases as you go up the "food chain." As with any self-employment taxes, you report your income for the month.

Our sponsors definitely do make a living doing FL and are Sapphire Managers, meaning they have trained 5 people to go pretty far up the chain. Like I said, they do work hard, though.

How much have we made? About £100 between us, which isn't a lot at all. We have felt a bit disenfranchised by it and the only person who really buys from us is my aunt and my mom as they really like the products. I also do purchase some that help with acne. You do need to build up a base of 20-30 people to sell to, which is a fuck ton.

Making a living with FL is possible, but it isn't easy. Anyone who says it is easy is either lying or is already very experienced in sales.

MaryLennox84 I am glad they have it on the bottles! The problem I am having is the lady in question will not have it any other way that these products are the only reason for fixing a,b and c and will not have it it wont fix my IBS. That's what worries me. Misguided belief is contagious :(

And thank you for your honesty. It is as I suspected.

I'm guessing you tried really hard to earn a living from it? Yes, 20-30 returning customers is really hard. You'd need to reach around 100 people initially just to get those 20 returning customers and hope they bought more than just a bottle of aloe gelly :p

Thanks Mary.

what does "cc" mean?

MaryLennox84 Your latest reaction is again exactly what I have been describing, because individuals who have been subjected to coordinated devious techniques of social and psychological persuasion, invariably can't deal with the truth.

As for your comment:

'Forever Living is not meant to cure anything. Anyone who says otherwise is mistaken and/or desperate.'

Self-evidently, the Internet is alive with 'FLP' shills boasting that 'FLP' products have quasi-miraculous medicinal qualities. It would seem that you believe all these exemplary 'FLP' shills to be merely 'mistaken and desperate,' rather than to be cultic charlatans.

Furthermore, 60+ years of quantifiable evidence proves beyond all reasonable doubt that anyone claiming, or implying, that it is possible for the average person to generate an overall net-income from participating in a so-called 'MLM income opportunity,' is not telling the truth.

marylennox I am sorry but you are wrong about the claims to cure, I read those claims with my very eyes in literature given to me by the person trying to sign me up. Claims, in detailed but terribly flawed scientific terminology, that aloe could cure autoimmune diseases such as lupus and arthritis. Now as I have an autoimmune condition and a science background I could demolish those claims, but many would be convinced I am sure. This was brochures produced by forever living

Lastuser cc means cash credits

Apparently Aloe can cure anything it's the answer to all our prayers our body is full of toxins and aloe is a magic potion that will cure us of any ailments. We then must recruit others and aspire to be like the high priests of FL who live in a eutopia where everyone is rich and doesn't have to work

Throwing pebbles, can you point me toward this? I have lupus and that is a huge thing with me. I would NEVER claim any of this cures nor would I have joined if I saw anything like that. Are you sure it was a brochure by FL or was it by someone doing FL who made the brochure? Because if you look on the FL website for the Aloe Drink--this is just the regular link not related to my business (www.foreverliving.com/marketing/Product.do?code=015) it states, "These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease."

A CC is a case credit, or £200 in retail products. Because it is sold all over the world, they use ccs in place of money so that it is universally understood.

Did we work hard on it? No. We hosted two parties in which no one bought anything and I did an online party in which no one bought anything. We have had lots of interest, just no bites...after the first couple of weeks, we kind of put it by the wayside. I made a few sales through a blog I run when a post went viral that mentioned a couple of the products. I think if you have the drive to really do this, you can, but I'm not sure either of us really cares about aloe vera plants enough to do it. I would love if the business did work for my BF because it would be flexible around other things he does, but it does take up a LOT of time if you want to make it work. He is organising a few more things, but I don't know that either of us are particularly hopeful.

If you've read above, you'll know that I never started this to make a living, which some people keep claiming I did and was busting my ass to do so? I started it for a side income and to boost my regular income if I've ever ill with lupus or need to quit my job...there is something else there.

Eyespying, what the hell, dude? Do you do anything else with your time? Do you have a job? I'm on a day off and even I'm not replying as quickly as you are. Maybe you need to join FL! ;) (JUST KIDDING!!!) You do need something to fill your time and boots!

I appreciate you guys listening. I'm just trying to show all sides, though I can understand why a lot of people are put off by them or other MLM schemes. At the end of the day, it's our own personal choice.

As far as cost goes, you do have to invest in your own business or hobbies, so I'm not sure why this is any different. I've invested a lot more than £200 in my freelance work! But that's just my opinion. I know eyespy will have some way to show me I am blinded from the truth because I have been duped and conned!

mary it was in a paper leaflet, very clearly part of pack produced by forever living, my relative had only just started up her business at the time. I didn't think to make a copy, I was too shocked at the ridiculousness of the claims and I didn't realise how widespread forever would become and how many people would get sucked into the scam

Hi Mary, thanks for braving our thread again.

you said:

A CC is a case credit, or £200 in retail products. Because it is sold all over the world, they use ccs in place of money so that it is universally understood.

that's the same thing the Younique seller said but it makes no sense. There are exchange rates and most non-MLM international businesses manage to convert the USD price into the UKP price no problem. Why can't FL? What does a CC actually mean in pound terms thought? if 1 CC = 200 pounds of products, do you get 200 pounds cash in your bank? how does it work?

you said:

If you've read above, you'll know that I never started this to make a living, which some people keep claiming I did and was busting my ass to do so? I started it for a side income and to boost my regular income if I've ever ill with lupus or need to quit my job...there is something else there.

I don't see anyone claiming you are doing that. But, the reality is many of the bots we follow are and that's concerning.

At the end of the day, it's our own personal choice.

No, it's not because FL is not transparent and it's really clear that people do not know what they are getting into (you excepted).

As far as cost goes, you do have to invest in your own business or hobbies, so I'm not sure why this is any different.

And in a normal business, things would be transparent. How much profit does the average FL "distributor" make in the UK? less business expenses, taxes, etc.

'I appreciate you guys listening. I'm just trying to show all sides, though I can understand why a lot of people are put off by them or other MLM schemes. At the end of the day, it's our own personal choice.'

----------------

Unfortunately, all the most sinister cultic frauds are based on giving victims the illusion that they made a completely free-choice.

By the way, today I've been sat watching the British Open Golf Championship at St. Andrews (whilst following various Internet discussions), because some of us have run real businesses and consultancies which have generated real net-profits.

I'm looking @ the uphill struggle a distributor in your position faces. U need to build a base of 20-30 returning customers & yet the fl model is designed to sabotage that. It should be so easy to do, if say u were allowed to sell products @ competitive rates on Amazon, ebay etc. Yet your caught between a rock & a hard place when your distributive outlets are limited & pricing to compete with similar products, is disallowed. Then you are left with the option of simply getting as much new recruits under your belts, so that you can at least get a cut from their purchases & sales. I'm not being cynical when I say that's clearly the design. After all, it's far easier for a healthy no. of down-line distributors to bring in those kind of figures (thru p use or sales), than it is for 1 distributor to retain 20-30 loyal customers. Ultimately, 10 distributors in a down-line, brings in more revenue (just from purchase of fl pack, alone), than 30 of your own customers (who may buy a bottle of shampoo a pop). Who does that model benefit? Not the average distributor, from what I can see.

Throwingpebbles. That is insane since they claim otherwise. I will have to look through my packet and see if I see this. I have asked about this over and over to ensure that nothing I was shilling said anything like that.

With normal businesses, things aren't necessarily transparent, especially when you go into business for yourself. I rub my own little business on the side and there is no average salary because it is something I'm doing on my own. It could go bust and I have to accept I could lose the money I put into it and continue to put into it. In fact with that business I probably haven't even broken even, but I'm not too concerned because it is largely a hobby.

As far as the CCs, 1 CC=£200 sold. I believe 4cc=£200 profit.

Eyespying, why are you on this thread if you have run a "real" business with "real" net-profits? (As though people who do earn money on FL are earning Monopoly money!)