FL thread 2

[mortil2]

To follow on so to not lose what is such an interesting thread

I wonder if any MN members are interested in complaining to UK law enforcement agencies about 'FLP?'

No action will ever be taken to investigate 'FLP' in the UK, let alone shut it down, unless significant numbers of complaints are received from the public (not necessarily from victims).

It should go without saying that I have already filed a comprehensive complaint about 'FLP' with Action Fraud. I have a case number which MN members can also use to support my complaint or to file their own complaints.

I can be contacted at [email protected]

e-mails should be marked 'FLP complaint - FTAO David Brear'

Have just seen a FLbot update with ......18 hashtags! It's a pic of her and her sister holding hands standing beside the obligatory white cars (outside a garage I think)

Hashtags include:

#worktowin and #whitecarcrew

TalcumMucker - why not add hashtag no.19 ..... #smokeandmirrors

Lol, betty if u thinks that's bad. I came across some random blog the other day, claiming fl aloe could cure hiv Now do u just laugh or cry, when u see something like that?? Absolute madness!

LilyAlpha - thats... oh dear god. Really? thats just as bad as the cancer cure rubbish I came across over cannabis oil recently.

Oh aloe will fix that

bettyberry That's right, there is already a new generation of 'MLM 'rackets hiding behind cannabis, and hemp, based quasi-medical products.

www.businessforhome.org/2014/04/kannanay-a-cannabis-mlm-goes-live-in-the-usa/

It is both absurd and tragic to me, how the current (temporary) UK government can immediately recognise 'brainwashing' when it's being used to deceive vulnerable individuals into committing suicide by foreign-based cult leaders peddling 'religious'-themed, comic-book stories as reality, but successive UK governments have completely failed to recognise exactly the same coordinated devious techniques of social, psychological and physical persuasion being used to deceive millions of vulnerable individuals into committing financial suicide by billionaire foreign-based cult leaders peddling 'commercially'-themed, comic-book stories as reality.

www.bbc.com/news/uk-33590305

I know this is going to get bashed because I see that anything that isn't 100% negative about FL is "wrong" here (to be 100% accurate I am neither for or against FL....I am a distributer but I am not sure I'll continue forward with it), but FL does NOT promise people untold riches. They are quite frank about the work it takes to create an income and you don't go to a meeting that says "You will automatically be earning six figures the moment you step through the door." No one ever told us it didn't take hard work. I think that's the key that you guys are missing here...or that is something the people on your FB are either choosing to ignore or downplaying in order to get more people to join their team. That is wrong and they shouldn't be misleading, but I guess the issue with MLMs is that there isn't really a way to police it (which there should be more of).

MaryLennox84 The fact that (without the slightest pause for thought) you systematically dismiss all quantifiable evidence challenging the authenticity (and legality) of the comic-book 'negative vs positive FLP' fairy story, as '100% negative,' demonstrates that you are (to a greater or lesser extent) controlled by it.

Self-evidently, 'MLM' racketeers wouldn't be able to enslave their victims by promising them a Utopian existence without effort. On the contray, what what they peddle them is a 'Step by Step Plan' to achieve future secure Utopian existence after a period (usually several years) of concentrated (unpaid) effort and unquestioning obedience. When victims inevitably fail to achieve the 'MLM' Utopia, it's been child's play to make them believe it was entirely their own fault and prevent them complaining

Deceiving vulnerable individuals into committing all their mental, physical and financial resources, in pursuit of an illusory Paradise on Earth, has been the clandestine criminal objective of all 'MLM income opportunity' cultic racketeers.

Mary, certainly all of the FL promos, videos & success day footage I've seen, there has been a strong implication that there is serious money to be made "if u work hard enough at it". The fundamental part of it all, is that any profit made is illusionary, whether 'small change' or 'big money' territory. Why? Because once u factor in all your time, travel costs, money spent & everything in between, there is no profit. The ONLY profit that's made is from the collective sum of each dist's fl pack & further personal use, with a dash of product sales & guess where virtually all of that goes?

I have never systematically dismissed anything as I've said that there have been some shady things and some good things in FL. It seems like you want t paint every FBO as an idiot who is ensnared and enslaved and cannot think for themselves. I've barely been on this thread but for two posts and I haven't even responded to most of the things about FL on here, yet somehow I'm systematically dismissing everything you're saying?

I am just sharing that I was never sold a paradise or told that it would be simple or that I could quit my job without effort (not that I want to)...that is the only thing I'm saying in my experience. A responsible FBO would never do that and the meetings don't present that as the case. However, I am sure without a doubt that some people who are desperate to make their forever business work do that to people and are not honest at all and people have been "sold" that idea. Jeez, get a grip. What is your personal gripe with MLMs anyway?

MaryLennox, out of interest, how did your upline sell it to you when you joined FL? Is your primary aim to get a core of retail customers who you can sell to on a regular basis? Is that how it works?

Could somebody please explain the car plan to me, I understand the workings of everything else with FL. I have always been skeptical of anything where you have to pay upfront first, and Ive heard you also have to pay for the training days and the seminars.We had training days in my old job and we used to get paid for attending them,and any expenses eg travelling costs and dinner.

MaryLennox84 The fact that (without the slightest pause for thought) you continue to regurgitate thought-stopping jargon, like 'FBO,' also demonstrates that you are being controlled by the 'FLP/MLM' fairy story. In the adult world of quantifiable reality, whilst they remain under the influence of the Utopian fairy story, so-called 'MLM business owners,' are clearly de facto slave recruiters. This doesn't make them idiots, because at a moment of vulnerablity, literally anyone can fall for one of these mind-warping rackets.

What does reflect badly on 'MLM' adherents, is when they are faced with the irrefutable truth, but they still refuse to accept it and, instead, attack the person(s) trying to help them to return to reality.

Classically, subjects of coordinated devious techniques of psychological and social persuasion, vigorously deny that they are being controlled, because this is a threat to their self-esteem.

'The most powerful weapon in the hands of the oppressor, is the mind of the oppressed.'

& sorry, I'm not being 'negative', only evaluating the facts before me. Like anyone else, when I first began looking into how fl works, I had questions like, why would products hailed as being of superior quality, not sell in open market, where potentially way more money is to be made? Why when I visited the fl site, was i unable to purchase anything directly, as a potential customer or why weren't any of the products' ingredients listed? Why when my aunt & her sponser talked about 'the business', was there no emphasis on selling product? Being positive is good quality to have, but never to the detriment of our evaluative abilities. U reach a sound decision on something after U've done some critical reasoning. That's not being negative. Without it we would do daft things, like following strangers into transit vans, because they smiled & offered us sweets.

Annie, I think it's where after fl dist has bought (for regular personal use) & sold required cc of fl product, plus qualifies for certain bonuses, they get to lease car on fl's own car plan.

Yes, I am oppressed for saying FBO and ensnared and enslaved. You are right!

I'm definitely not saying bringing up the negative aspects of the business is without warrant or that everyone is being negative, I just mean that it seems that brining up positive points of it is meant with disdain...ie "You are being oppressed and (without pause for thought) use words like FBO!"

I have no idea how the car plan works because I am nowhere near that and am unsure if I ever will be. Leaning toward doubtful.

I was pretty upfront that I never wanted to quit my job and I was never pressured to do that. Basically, I was told that I could make some extra money selling products and recruiting people if I worked at it. I was given plans for my financial goals, which I was always told, "I'm not going to lie, you have to put in work to achieve this." It was never sold to me as some key to untold riches and happiness and my sponsors have been quite upfront with what they make. They have been able to quit their jobs, but they also work very hard and have a passion for the business. I just don't think I have that, plus there is the MLM stigma attached to it. I never felt like anyone told me I could have every financial reward without working for it, but I am not denying that some FBOs (PAUSE FOR THOUGHT) do sell it that way to others.

Thanks lily, they make out Fl are giving you the extra money and saving it in a car plan for you. At least thats how I read it as.Spy I know that every1 no matter how high up they are have to sell 4ccs a month,of cause thats easier the higher up you are, and 1 of these ccs you have to purchase yourself for personal use , that means you have to spend £200 a month on products for yourself, that takes some doing.

You don't HAVE to buy them for yourself, it is just suggested.

MaryLennox84 - my gripe with the MLMs is they target the vulnerable. You see the ads in the paper 'work from home, earn £400-1k mth call xxx' no mention of the company.

Its the fact you have to pay for training seminars, for the start up package, for the simplest of things to kick off a business sends alarm bells ringing. Then there is the fact you have to spend money to become a distributor.

The constant promotion on facebook of these products. We'd all be getting pretty peeved if any other company demanded their employees advertised through their personal pages.

The outrageous claims about these products!

The business model. I have said it before but just looking at a market that is already at saturation point ( forever living competitors in my town include include holland and barrett x2 , boots x8, 4x independent health food shops and non of these hold forever living products) it is incredibly difficult to make any money.

The prices are well... extortionate. (I could go into the poundshop style packaging for what are meant to be high end products. That, for me, looks suspect (I'm a designer) The aloe juice bottles remind me of fabric softener but that's another story)

That's only a few of my gripes against these companies.

Eyespying, everything MaryLennox has said has been perfectly reasonable and based on her own experience. I see no merit in continuing to dismiss everything she says as evidence that she's been brainwashed, any more than your repeated jibes at trinity have been warranted on this thread. You are throwing around completely baseless accusations like 'without the slightest pause for thought' - given there's something like 45 minutes between your post and her response I would suggest that she did, in fact, have plenty of time to pause for thought.

Please do try to allow for the fact that some posters have not had universally negative experiences - Mary's recruiter has clearly been considerably more honest than many who've been quoted on here.

MaryLennox84 - were you ever talked to about the legalities; going through stuff about taxes, pensions, national insurance contributions? or is that something you were/are expected to sort out yourself?

Well I listened to one of the training sessions on utube (yes I am obsessed with it mainly because Im looking out for my Sil), and thats what the lady said. You have to buy 1cc for personal use, so it is seen that you are using the products yourself. Just saying.

MaryLennox84 It's basic human nature to try to justify your previous behaviour, because few people want to admit that they have been deceived, but you are still systematically categorising unsubstantiated information originating from 'FLP' as 'positive' and all externally-originating evidence-based information, as 'negative.'

Outside of this classic cultic 'negative vs positive' fairy story, the multi-dimensional key-information which has been deliberately withheld from you, and which the bosses of reality-inverting 'MLM' cults like 'FLP' will never declare voluntarily, is

1. The overall number of individuals who have been churned through the so-called 'MLM income opportunity' since it was first instigated.

1. The overall number of these individuals who have generated an overall net-profit from their so-called 'MLM businesses.'

Furthermore, what possible lawful reason can you put forward to explain why all so-called 'MLM' companies have withheld this key-information from the public and from regulators?

Could you also please tell me whether you were informed that 'FLP' was instigated, and is owned, by adherents of the 'Mormon Church,' before you signed a take it or leave contract with the organization?