FL thread 2

[mortil2]

To follow on so to not lose what is such an interesting thread

very close friends of ours did Amway probably 20 years ago, with some success as they went on a cruise as a reward at some point. They did talk to us about involvement but didn't pursue when I said "no"; my instinct was strong that it wasn't for me, even though I had a high regard for the friends.

My FLbot have birth to a baby girl (aloe baby!) over the weekend. This morning she has already posted a motivational quote / article.
The mind boggles

AbsentMindedNumpty - I'll bet you anything you like that your friends never made an overall net-profit out of 'Amway.'

I can put you in direct contact with my good friend Bruce Craig (the former Attorney General of Wisconsin), who once seized the audited tax-records of every single 'successful' Ambot in his state. Many of these Ambots had gone on 'Amway' cruises.

Out of 20 thousands 'successful' Wisconsin Ambots, not one had made an overall net-profit and paid income tax. At that time in Wisconsin, the top one percent of the 'Amway' pyramid, were declaring an annual net-loss of one thousand dollars on average to the IRS, but this didn't take into account their wasted time and effort.

When UK regulators investigated 'Amway' in 2007, they discovered the essentially identical situation with approximately 35 thousands de facto 'Amway' slaves, but at least one millions UK citizens were churned through the 'Amway income opportunity' fairy story 1973-2006.

Just as in 'FLP,' the real cash has been made in 'Amway' via related advanced fee frauds, in which adherents have been peddled a step by step plan to achieve a form of paradise on Earth.

Eyes
Yes. That Jon Sweeney. I've just read his stuff on Scientology and North korea.

That moneysavingexpert link is good. On page 4 there is a funny cynical account.

Eyes that is scary stuff duped to the point of suicide. The thing that set off alarm bells to me was when bitchy FLbot had suckered in a new minion and put " please don't be selfish and keep this to yourself share this amazing business oppurtunity with AS MANY people as possible". I saw bitchy FLbot at the weekend and I overheard her saying that she was under a lot of pressure from "work" and never sees her partner anymore. Hardly the high life that she portrays on Facebook. Infact she looked pretty miserable.

fishboneschokus - As the author of 'The Universal Identifying Characteristics of a Cult,' I once attempted to speak to John Sweeney via a researcher on BBC's Panorama, but Mr. Sweeney never bothered to contact me.

The reason why I wanted to speak with Mr. Sweeney, was because he'd made the classic mistake of entering the two-dimensional 'Scientology' game of make believe without fully-understanding how dangerous it can be. At one point, Mr. Sweeney had become exhausted and had begun to react to the two-dimensional 'Scientology' game as though it is reality, rather than calmly remaining outside it in multi-dimensional reality.

Once you know the detail of the 'negative vs positive' 'good vs evil' comic-book story modifying the personalities and behaviour of core 'Scientologists,' you can predict with almost 100% accuracy what they will say and do, when faced with a challenge to the story's authenticity.

Core-'Scientologists' are not just like programmed machines, they are programmed machines. All of them would fail the Turing Test. However, the same could be said of all core-'MLM' adherents.

Perhaps John Sweeney now has the capacity to understand this?

Peachy, my aunt's partner has been complaining he barely see's her anymore, since she got involved with this thing. It's literally taking over her life.

Mine has dipped over into pinterest! I logged in this AM to be confront with it all :O

www.pinterest.com/search/pins/?q=forever%20living This pretty much sums up what has been repinned

Yes. I know about that.

In the book that I read recently, 'Church of Fear', Sweeney reflects on the extent to which he was sucked into that insane dynamic in the early years of his reporting on the C oS.

I haven't read his stuff on alquaeda.

There is a story in the book about how he had to identify himself as a journalist or risk being kidnapped, in Afghanistan. Suddenly one of the guards recognised him from that YouTube clip. So Scientology may have saved his life.

:)

Eye, yes I can definitely see how it all rests on being brainwashed. The pull of it is like being involved with a church like family, that reinforces further involvement with positive behaviourism & lure of 'promised land'

Peacheykeen Once someone has entered a reality-inverting cultic labyrinth, it can be almost imposible to exit. Core-adherents who do manage to re-enter reality, invariably have to undergo a form of mental breakdown.

Core-cult adherents self-esteem, and related psychological function, become dependent on a self-righteous group delusion of absolute moral and intellectual supremacy. Technically core-cult adherents are functioning psychotics. Take away their ego-protecting delusion and they cease to function. In extreme cases, core cult adherents will kill themselves rather than face ego-destroying reality.

For many years I was associated with Dr. Edward Lottick, whose son Noah (aged 24) did exactly that as a result of being decieved into entering the reality-inverting 'Scientology' labyrinth. Noah Lottick eventually lost the battle to re-establish reality. He threw himself out of a hotel window in NYC, after paying thousands of dollar to become programmed to believe that his own father was controlled by evil extra terrestrials.

Whilst they remain under the malign influence of their groups 'good vs evil' controlling scenarios, core-cult adherents are obliged to modify their personalities and behaviour accordingly.

MN memebers should note that the overwhelming majority of 'MLM' adherents never become core-adherents.

It's been far less than 5% who have remained under the malign influence of 'MLM' cults for more than 5 years.

The figures for chronic 'Scientology' adherence are remarkably similar.

I am fascinated by the FL cult and am so pleased that I have found this thread, which bears out my own suspicions about it.

I met someone recently - a friend of a friend - who has been doing FL for about 20 years. She's pretty far up the pyramid - by her own admission, she has 'thousands' downline from her. Oh, and of course, pyramid must never be mentioned as pyramid selling is illegal and that is not what FL is. At all. Ever.

I love lurking on her FB page - it is exactly as described here. Full of inspirational quotes, lifestyle shots (usually with a lovely plastic bottle or two of FL products carefully placed) and welcoming people to her team. Her cover photo is of her receiving a cheque for nearly $40k in Singapore earlier in the year. And of course, if anyone asks any direct questions about it, she'll "PM them". She's FB friends with all of the 'senior' FL people mentioned on here (I checked!)

Can you trust someone like this? Someone who has achieved a comfortable life on others' naivety and vulnerability? I think not. When I first met her, I quite took to her but actually that initial impression has worn very thin and I now think that she is incredibly calculating and manipulative. I know several people who do FL now and they're at the bottom end, out trying to flog the stuff at local events, etc. These are the people I feel for - taken for what little spare cash they have when they have been vulnerable

I don't wish to derail this excellent thread, but for books about Scientology I'd highly recommend Going Clear: Scientology, Hollywood, and the Prison of Belief Paperback by Lawrence Wright, much better researched and written than John Sweeny's book.

I don't know about anyone else but there were various chain letter crazes when I was at school. With bad luck for anyone who broke the chain. We not only had assemblies about it, we had maths lessons. I think that most ten year olds can grap the maths, especially if it is well presented. Eg in assembly of 400; they physically ran out of people to recruit.

When will it end?

Who will end up owning all the global property?

It will end, but when?

Last FB update - "Although we don't go until Monday, I say it's never too early to start packing - just beginning to get the toiletries together"

Thanks, Loose.

I've read that and seen the documentary. It is brilliant. There is also a very interesting interview with Wright in front of an audience with q and a afterwards.

Some of the links on this thread remind me of the crazy Tom cruise Scientology stuff on YouTube.

Sweeney comes across to me as flawed and honest.

Actually, since then there have been photos of her mani and pedicures. Of course. And of course they are going to a 5* luxury hotel. It wouldn't be anything less, would it?

Bromleygal, that fb update had me looling

betty, that Pinterest pg is scary lol. My fave had to be the aloe toothgel! Who knew that aloe & bee propolis not only strengthens teeth & gums, but also fights plaque & whitens teeth? Amazeeballs

You'd think that with all the dosh she was making, she'd be able to afford to go to Space NK and get herself some decent toiletries!!

Bromleygal that pic reminds me of a recent one from my fb FLbot - a selfie taken in the car of her going off to yet another business meeting (she hardly ever seems to be at home with her kids these days except when she's working from her garden all weekend ). Carefully positioned on the passenger seat next to her was an array of FL products with a designer bag emblazoned with D&G next to it.

I'm surprised there wasn't a big arrow pointing at the bag in case anyone missed that she's "earning so much money" that she can afford a designer one!

Fishbones, when will it all end? Good question. I wonder the same thing too. In my area, I've recently seen fl reps trying to recruit outside a jobcentre. The other day I walked past a local market & clocked a stall with sparsely covered table (had a few fl products laid out). It was the sorriest looking stall I'd ever seen, but I'm assuming the products were just there for show. Anyone that approached the table probably got a sales pitch to join fl? Or maybe stall holder was taking advance orders. With this level of desperation, something tells me the bottom of this fl thing is about to fall out soonthough. I mean, recruiting outside a jobcentre is really low to target vulnerable ppl in this way.

LilyAlpha - I just asked a horse friend about the list to do with curing horse ailments. Yeah, If you used them on horses to 'cure' some of those problems you'd have a very dead horse. Scary the claims they can make!

I think the best ones have to be the first one - aloe gel can 'fix' all those problems. rolls eyes