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FL thread 2

997 replies

mortil2 · 04/07/2015 07:20

To follow on so to not lose what is such an interesting thread

OP posts:
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bettyberry · 19/07/2015 20:52

yes, I get the lifestyle bit. Stepford wives... Thats my impression. I am going to have to go on a purge... eventually.

Annie65 · 19/07/2015 21:49

Reading this with great interest, I to have becomè very interested in the cult like ways of FL since my Sil become a part of it. I cant believe people part so easily with their money and get drawn into this sham without first looking into it. I have watched the videos on u tube, the way they are trained or should I say TOLD what to do, how to act, and even what to say. If I could find out about this cult, then anyone could, its quite easy. I am quite obsessed with it and its because Im worried about my Sil, she has just had twins, has just gone back work and having to pay expensive child care. What I dont understand is just before she got involved with FL she said it would drive her mad being at home all day, everyday, now she wants to "sack the boss", talk about a change of heart. She recently invited us all to a charity football do, she cant stand football so I looked at the web page for the football do, and "guess what " they are hiring out stalls for a tenner, tenner goes to the charity and the money you make is yours, then I find out her up-liner is going who doesnt live anywhere near here . Ha no prizes for guessing what they will be selling. I did buy 2 things from her, the deodorant, which is crap and the deep heat stuff which is ok , I had the pupp basket from her and tried the stuff out, its nice stuff, but no different from other high street products, definitely not worth the money they charge. Its great to see that other people think the same as me, I am worried about her and I do hope she makes some money out of it but I doubt that she will

lastuseraccount123 · 19/07/2015 22:08

Annie she sounds like the classic victim of FL.

  • just had babies - check
-wants to be with them - check -probably exhausted too

good luck, hopefully she comes to her senses soon

Eyespying · 19/07/2015 22:09

Annie65

As you have seen, the 'FL' products are effectively-unsaleable on the open market, because cheaper equivalents can be bought online and in traditional retail outlets.

This means that in order to try to make money, your SIL will need to duplicate a 'plan,' and buy a regular quota of exorbitantly-priced 'FL' products herself whilst trying to recruit others to duplicate the same 'plan, etc. ' ad infinitum. Her chances of making an overall net profit from the 'FL plan,' are effectively zero. The more money she loses: the more your SIL will be told that it's her own fault and that she needs to buy training materials and leads, and to attend training sessions and meetings, etc. This parallel, advance fee fraud, is where all the real money has been made in 'MLM' cults.

The longer you SIL remains active in 'FL' and the more cash, and/or credit, she has access to, the more danger she is in. That said, it's very possible that she will abandon her activity when she can't make any money.

Have you read this article?

mlmtheamericandreammadenightmare.blogspot.fr/2013/02/forever-living-products-flp-is-mlm.html

KenDoddsDadsDog · 19/07/2015 22:10

Oooooh the white Range Rover picture has been replaced by a Porsche

lastuseraccount123 · 19/07/2015 22:14

oooh ken do show.

lastuseraccount123 · 19/07/2015 22:16

Sunday treats thanks to my mid month forever cash injection!!
????
?#?converse? ?#?allstar? ?#?white? ?#?love?

Annie65 · 19/07/2015 22:46

Eye yes I have, its one of the 1st things I read. My Sil went another business meeting yesterday with her really ambitious, ott and very annoying up-liner. I think her up-liner would stamp on her own granny to get as far to the top in this business as she can. I wont buy anything from my Sil again as much as I feel sorry for her, I feel that I would be encouraging her to carry on with this farce, but she is a grown woman with a mind of her own ( well she used to have) and I dont want to be a part of it, especially when I heard the up-liners call there down-liners ants. I find that disgusting. Might just let that slip in conversation one day.

lastuseraccount123 · 19/07/2015 22:50

wow, they call them ants?

Annie65 · 19/07/2015 23:02

Yes last, thats what I read earlier on this thread, and they call anyone the "ants" recruit "the ants legs", they being the managers and upwards.

LilyAlpha · 19/07/2015 23:11

Fantastic thread here mumsnet! Like others, have been a silent lurker since I discovered part 1 of this thread. My own personal experience of having a (usually sane) aunt get pulled into this weird cult, called 'Forever Living' (even the name is creepyConfused), is what catalysed me to find out as much as I could about the reason for her apparent total personality transplant.

It started with a seemingly innocent fb message, asking how me & the kids were?...which was a nice surprise really, considering I hadn't heard from her in close to a year lol. I phoned her & thought I was having a casual, catch up convo, when I was subjected to the strangest 'sales pitch' over the phone. She sounded scripted & slightly vacant. It was my aunt & yet it didn't quite sound like her? She went into full throttle about how this 'lovely, supportive company could transform my life & provide amazing opportunity to be work for myself & make good money...all you're asked to do is use products & recommend...that's all!Hmm Now I'm no financial expert, but even I know that successful businesses either sell product or service. I heard a whole lot of rambling about using product, recommending, team building etc but no real mention of selling it. My limited bird brain couldn't get over this significant omission & I kept asking where, how & to whom is product sold! I could tell from her evasive answers that the selling part wasn't important, which in turn poked my curiosity/suspicion further. Then she spoke about her sponsor as if he was some kind of knowing all guru/revered deity, who 'I had to speak to', as he could explain 'the business'....

Around May of this year, I began receiving incessant invitations (in a pushy, arm twisting, won't relent until u say 'yes' kind of way) to talk to this sponser of hers & attend their team meeting. I kept politely declining her offer until 1 day I get an unexpected call from this sponsor, full of glib charm, meaningless soundbites & an even more scripted, well rehearsed, but hurried sales pitch. No substance, just drivel about how much money he was earning, now able to put kids through private sch, buy properties, afford enviable lifestyle in such a relatively short period, after a redundancy from a well paid job, caused him to 'lose it all'. Anyway it was all very bizarre & his pitch was briefly cut short when he began panting down the phone, to which I asked if he was alright? He then replied with "sorry, I just had to run for the bus". Now I don't mean to sound judgemental, but I silently perused, if u just spent the past few minutes trying to convince me of your ever ascending social/financial status, running for a bus mid sentence, is probably not the best way to sell it to me! Well that conversation got cut short but not before yet another pushy invite to a team meeting, insisting I bring a friend along lol...hmm nah not for me thx.

Then amidst endless missed calls, unreplied fb messages & txts, I was now being bombarded with FL youtube shite, with wax faced couples looking like illustrations out of a watchtower brochure, boarding private jets, walking hand in hand on exotic beaches & selling any viewer, capable of enduring beyond 2 minutes of that cheesy melodramatic propaganda, "the dream opportunity". Maybe the fact that I couldn't withstand more than a minute of such crap saved me, but coupled with the odd behaviour I & other family members were bearing witness to, in my aunt, I just had to find out about this seemingly innocent co. called FL. The rest as they say, is all history. I'm sure we've all pretty much trodden a similar path to enlightenment on this quest to discover just wth could insidiously draw so many good natured (albeit slightly naive) folk into a pyramid with ruse products, into its predatory tentacles to be used up & then eventually spat out.

What scared me the most, was how much my aunt refused to see any possibility that 'things were not all that they appeared to be', despite all the rationality & evidence, she was presented with. It's like this is more than a company or colleagues, she seems to see FL & her team as a 'family' & that's the only way I can describe it. They got her at a vulnerable time in her life too, recent serious illness, redundancy etc.

Thanks to threads like this & a few on netmums, eyespyings articles & a few blogs I found on forever living, I now have much better understanding of what my aunt has got herself involved with & why she's been on this desperate cause to recruit. We've given up trying to 'show her the light', as she just thought we were being negative & 'against her', when actually we just care. We've resolved to be there for her when she finally finds the light for herself.

God this was long,,sorry...kind of cathartic to get this off my chest & reassuring to know that there are others going through similar thing with friends/loved ones & refusing to drink the fl/MLM koolaid.

Peacheykeen · 19/07/2015 23:48

Oh lilyalpha I did lol at "watchtower brochure" it's so true FL are just like another religion trying to indoctrinate you

LilyAlpha · 19/07/2015 23:55

& I too, have been guilted into buying FL product...didn't even ask for it lol???? Came home to find 2 bottles of aloe gel drink, in a bag on my doorstep with an invoice attached. This was before I even knew who or what the hell FL was. Like a sucker I felt obliged to help out aunt in her new venture & supported the cause by coughing up extortionate amount grrrr. Eventually got round to trying it & it tasted like aloe infused shit with an unmistakably 'plasticky' taste????& I'm no newbie to health supplements/foods. Checked the ingredients & I saw additives & known paraben on the list (probably a carcinogen in there too, for good measure). Needless to say, was far from impressed & poured contents of both bottles down the sink. Glad I did that, in hindsight because I remember later down the line, when I began researching fl, stumbling upon a site where some ex employees of the factory plant, based somewhere in US, were complaining about unhygienic conditions & cockroach infested preparation areas, despite the public area of plant 'looking' immaculate. A few disgruntled employees also complained about poor working conditions & exploitative pay of mainly immigrant workers. Wish I had saved the link now.

lastuseraccount123 · 20/07/2015 00:01

i;ll try and find it Lily.

LilyAlpha · 20/07/2015 00:03

Yep definitely trying their hardest to indoctrinate & they really do remind me of those J witnesses that try to hold u hostage on your own doorstep, @ most inconvenient time. Same maniacal smile, glazed over expression & immunity to the word 'no'. No disrespect to J witnesses intended!

MaryLennox84 · 20/07/2015 02:10

I am an FL distributor and these kinds of threads and attitudes are the exact reasons I am having a lot of trouble bringing myself to try to sell anything. My bf and I joined as our "upline" are two very nice folks who have made a living off of FL, quit their jobs and have the car allowance and got a really nice car. We have tried to products (we had to in order to join) and I really like them (there are some that are actually quite amazing like the aloe face scrub), but I just am so wary of doing direct sales. I am not a salesperson in the first place by any means, so although I did post some stuff on Facebook every so often, I totally struggle with it because I feel embarrassed or like I'm bothering people.

Obviously FL isn't what I want to do with my life, so it makes it difficult for me to be passionate about it. My bf wants to be more into it than I am, which I encourage him to do if he wants, but we both feel like the posts our sponsors do are a bit fake-ish and a lot of the posts people put up about "working from home" are a bit ridiculous. We've had a lot of issues even selling the products. The few people that have bought from us really like them, but that's the thing, it is really difficult to get people to buy anything.

One of our good friends' parents actually makes a full-time living with a MLM and have been doing it for years and years...which is great. But yeah, a lot of the tactics with FL and a lot of the MLMs is shady. Our upline tell us not to mention Forever Living when we talk to people about the products, which we've thought sounded very shady.

Anyway, I know you all probably think I'm an idiot for ever doing it, which I sometimes think myself. I'm actually a PhD candidate and we've met doctors and lawyers doing FL. I think it can work for people who really dgaf about pissing people off or being annoying....or who are good at sales.

LilyAlpha · 20/07/2015 02:53

Hi Mary, I don't think you are an idiot, but to understand how an MLM like fl works please get the notion of 'selling' products out of your mind. Fl (like many others) works by

  1. you the distributor purchasing FL pack
  2. you the distributor making a further guaranteed purchase of certain amount of fl product each mnth infinitely
  3. Optional to sell products to others in closed market, which is why they're deliberately over priced
  4. Most important part, Recruit, recruit, recruit! Thereby, increasing 'down line', who each will repeat the above. U the distributor, will take a small commission/bonus from each distributor in your down line.

Sounds easy enough right? Except when u really do the maths, each distributor puts in more money, blood, sweat & tears into the fl machine, than they ever get back.
E.g, say after a few months u've undergone training, attended meetings, maybe even a success event (which u pay for, of course), purchased initial fl pack & made further purchase for your own personal use to qualify for continued activation. Then comes your cheque in the post, £200. Yay, what a result! However u would have spent minimum of £300 & that's being very economical with figures here & not even including travel costs to get to meetings, promo events et al.
It's a bit like me saying, I've got this great business proposition, how about I give u a fiver in return for your £20 note?
Fl won't provide u with actual sales figures or average income of distributors, that would be revealing the con. Instead, they bamboozle their adherents, with presentations of massive cheques on a stage. Once again though, if 'Joe & Jane bloggs' receive a cheque saying £50,000, chances are they've put in £500,000 or even more. It's all smoke & mirrors.

LilyAlpha · 20/07/2015 03:34

www.billycraig.co.uk/blog/category/clean%209

Or that might explain it better ;)

KenDoddsDadsDog · 20/07/2015 06:21

Well , overnight apparently Cancer Research advertise the use of aloe. Someone has ripped into her about it and all she has done is deleted their comment .

tribpot · 20/07/2015 07:32

MaryLennox, I think if you've made your initial 200 quid outlay back, I'd be looking to escape if I were you. Sales is hard work and you need the hide of a rhino, and that's when you're selling to strangers. Having to exploit your friends and family is another thing again Hmm

bettyberry · 20/07/2015 07:59

KenDoddsDadsDog - thats what I have been doing on mine then Offering good quality alternatives that actually work. That is horrid someone suggesting its recommended by cancer research! What next? cannabis oil will cure cancer too? (that exists too. cannabis oil zealots, ugh)

bettyberry · 20/07/2015 08:05

MaryLennox84 - I'd be incredibly worried if a company I worked for told me not to mention the company I work for!

The bit I don't get, and I have a pretty good business brain, is why you would want to recruit new members to sell on your patch? surely that increases competition but reduces your sales AND if you recruited those ladies who take away your sales you only get a 3% return not the 30% had you made those sales yourself(this is going by commission rates I spotted here). Odd.

Even AVON divide up areas so each consultant has a patch so as not to compete with other ladies.

My mother did avon for a year and this is how they made it work for her and at least they didn't promise £1000's. she made a few hundred a month if that.

xenu1 · 20/07/2015 09:08

bettyberry -

"The bit I don't get, and I have a pretty good business brain,is why you would want to recruit new members to sell on your patch?"

Of course! You have spotted a major flaw in MLM as a legitimate business!

But having too many salespeople for an addressable market is only a drawback if the organisation is a legitimate business seriously depending on retail, and if that organisation invests in (or pays) its Salesforce.

If the organisation's aim is to exploit the IBOs/Salesforce by concentrating on personal use of products and profiting by charging the IBOs for tools, training and meetings then who cares how many salespeople there are?

Eyespying · 20/07/2015 09:37

When I first started to look at 'Amway' more than 20 years ago, two good friends told me about a '30 something teacher' in their home town in the North of England. This poor Ambot had ended up losing everything and trying to kill himself rather than face the reality that he'd been duped and that he'd tried to dupe everyone he knew.

In his local pub, the 'Ambot' had been ridiculed as the 'JackPot Witness.' However, this is a very accurate description of all 'MLM' fanatics. They really do believe that they have discovered the way to hit the Jackpot and, like all Evangelists, they want to spread the good news.

The one thing which everyone seems to be overlooking here, is 'FLP's' connection with the 'Mormon Church.'

Most people would politely tell shiny-faced 'Mormon' missionaries to go away, but imagine if you took the storyline which modifies the personalities, and behaviour, of the 'Mormon' missionairies, and transposed this into commercial, modern day, words and images.

This is, in fact, what FLP is, it is the 'Mormon Church,' but repackaged to fit the existing beliefs and instinctual desires of a persons who would never fall for a directly religious storyline.

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