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FL thread 2

997 replies

mortil2 · 04/07/2015 07:20

To follow on so to not lose what is such an interesting thread

OP posts:
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47
bettyberry · 19/07/2015 11:03

Already claims are being made about FL product.

'So glad I discovered the aloe Gelly. It literally works wonders.'

lazycoo · 19/07/2015 11:15

eyespying I first thought you were referring to Martin Lewis, the moneysavingexpert and financial journalist. I just about cried!

I would have thought investigating/ warning about MLMs would have been right up his street...

Peacheykeen · 19/07/2015 11:25

I'm gutted! Just found out my lovely friend who I've known since I was five has now become an FL distributer and she's already spouting the same crap as my Bitchy FLbot. Sad

Eyespying · 19/07/2015 11:36

lazycoo-

The 'money saving expert' forum began discussing 'FLP' several years ago.

forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=1191677

As far as I know, the 'money saving expert,' Martin Lewis, as opposed to the 'FLP/MLM' useful idiot (with the same name), has never issued any clear warning to the public concerning 'MLM' racketeering.

To date, all attempts to contact 'money saving expert,' Martin Lewis, have proved fruitless.

As ever, the question I'd like him to answer, is:

What would be your own personal reaction if someone you love suddenly announced that he/she had signed up for a so-called 'MLM income opportunity?'

bettyberry · 19/07/2015 11:43

Random question, Bloggers have to adhere to strict rules when promoting products online that they have been paid to promote. Does this also apply to other social media where FL sellers are promoting items in their newsfeeds?same with other MLM brands. After all they are benefiting from the advert. how does it work?

Eyespying · 19/07/2015 11:54

Peacheykeen- I'm very sorry to hear that. Please don't hesitate to contact me if you need any help.

You might be interested to know that Friends and relatives of British FLbots who have contacted my Blog, have explained that when challenged, their FLbots have all referred to the Martin Lewis video interview as 'the absolute proof that 'FLP cannot possibly be a fraud or a cult.' Their FLbots have all laughed out loud at the suggestion that they were being deceived.

When I first challenged my family over their involvement with 'Amway,' they referred to the almost identical celebrity video interview, but which had employed Valerie Singleton (of BBC's: Blue Peter, the Money programme, etc.)

Interestingly, L. Ron Hubbard, the boss of the 'Scientology' racket, instigated a policy in the 1960s which involved the targeting of celebrities who were either rising or falling. Hubbard realized that association with well known persons would shut down the critical faculties of not just his adherent/victims, but also those of all casual observers.

We all now know that Jimmy Savile employed the identical technique.

arareman · 19/07/2015 12:17

Hi MumsNet,
Long-time lurker here but felt compelled to say something about this thread.

It's incredibly toxic. You're all in here laughing, pointing fingers, judging people for trying something new. How are they offending or hurting you in anyway? You can politely decline if you're approached, you can unfriend/block them on facebook, I don't get what your issue is with it.
You say it's like a crazy cult but that's also what this thread seems to be. A load of people clapping to the same tune so they can feel their opinion is validated by others.

I'm not a distributor but my wife is and no, she's not making a boat load of money. She had the 9-5, she hated it, was on all sorts of anti-depressants and other mood managing pills. She heard about FL, I told her to do whatever she wants to do and I will support her. She makes a couple of hundred a month, supplement that with my income and we have enough to get by. Sure we're worse off financially but guess what, she's happy. She smiles when she talks about work. She's off the pills. Is that so bad? That someone just wanted to break away from the monotonous 9-5 work 40 years, retire at 65 with a small pension and a thank you letter?

Sure there are some bad apples, the people who constantly harass others about the business, the ones who have this facade that the products they sell are liquid gold and can cure all your problems. But you'll get that anywhere.

Another thing I see on here is FL people 'making money off others'. For those of you work and earn a salary - where do you think that money comes from? If you go into Boots and buy a cream for your child's eczema and it doesn't work. What happens? You'll probably put it in the bathroom cupboard and forget about it and try another cream. Boots sold that product to you and made money from you even though the product didn't work. Do they get flack for it? No. If that happens with FL, it's the end of the world and the person who sold that is lying, manipulative, horrible person. Boots still markets and advertises just as the FL people do. The only difference being that FL is done face-to-face, Boots is done through TV and billboard advertising.

God forbid these FL people try something different and take a bit more control of their lives. Facebook is what you make of it. Don't like something you see - ignore it, hide/remove/block/unfriend that person and get on with your life. Everyone in here is seemingly willing these FL people to fail just so your own viewpoint can have some credence. Sure the main business is a bit culty but so is every successful company. I remember back in my early 20s working for a broadband supplier and the first 2 weeks of training there was like being indoctrinated to a cult. They would have you believe that they were THE best broadband suppliers ever and that none of the others were even worth their salt and that we were so lucky to be working for a company that actually cares about its employees. Training finished, I'm on the shop floor and I'd be told off for going to the toilet outside my break, yeah, great company.
To finish, let me put something across - if you want other people to fail so you can feel better or because you disagree with their business practices or because you don't particularly get along with that person - does that make you feel good about yourself?

Blowing out other people's candles won't make yours shine any brighter.

Eyespying · 19/07/2015 12:31

Whenever I receive closed-logic scripted comments, exactly like this one signed arareman, I usually invite the commentator to go away and read George Orwell's 'Animal Farm,' and then come back and tell me which one of Orwell's characters best represents their own current position.

Despite their 'capitalist' camouflage, exactly like the pig demagogues in 'Animal Farm,' the bosses of 'MLM Income Opportunity' rackets/cults have all steadfastly pretended affinity with their adherents' existing beliefs and instinctual desires, in order to enslave them.

Unfortunately, the world is full of vulnerable people who hate their jobs and who dream of achieving financial freedom. The pernicious 'capitalist' fairy story entitled, 'MLM Income Opportunity,' has been perfectly tailored to fit the minds of such persons.

foreverindenial · 19/07/2015 12:52

Wow arareman thanks for your response- good to hear another point of view.

Firstly in my view this thread is not toxic- what is toxic is the posts and threads on other sites, plus the FB and real life situations where young mums who are either wanting or desperatly hoping not to go back to work after their baby is born are targeted and in many cases exploited. Mums who's careers may have suited before a baby but now it's difficult or near possible to go back to. Mums who have returned to work and are miserable trying to juggle work hours, seeing their kids but have to pay bills.
FL does not advertise themselves as 'a bit of pin money on the side'. It promises you can sack the boss- give up your career, earn thousands, have financial freedom with pictures of beaches, yachts, mansions, sports cars. It belittles people for working 9-5 jobs.
Reaching this reality for the vast majority is simply not going to happen. Even earning a fairly decent salary for most is not going to happen. It's Mis leading people who are at a vulnerable and tricky point in their lives many just after having a baby.
Why do we hate it? What harm are they doing us? Can't we just block them out if we don't like it?
In a word no you can't just block it out. Many people have good friends who have seen their friends personality change drastically into a pushy seller unable to think about much else. Can't block them on Facebook as they see them in RL and want to know what's going on in their lives.
It's rude selfish and narcissistic to constantly sell to your family and friends and even worse to try to recruit them when you realise that you are not making money from selling products.
Personally I wouldn't dream of making any money from a friend or family member. I would feel the lowest of the low if I charged commission to anyone I knew or cared about. It would be like taking money out if their purse or robbing from a child as they would feel put on the spot to buy from you.
By doing FL many people are literally selling their friendships / relationships without realising.

The people I know who push FL, post quotes, push products and try to recruit friends and family have become a laughing stock and many people have lost respect for their friends.

I simply don't get how people are believing all the claims for earning 1000's per month by word of mouth alone and not seeing it on paper?

How do people think its ok to behave like this?

Society has become so materialistic it frightens me.

throwingpebbles · 19/07/2015 13:04

arareman the difference is that boots don't sell products that make wild claims to cure cancer/arthritis/ lupus etc

Also have you seen the crassness of the Facebook posts from flbots?

fishboneschokus · 19/07/2015 13:19

Eye
Have you tried Jon Sweeney on Twitter?

Eyespying · 19/07/2015 13:30

fishboneschokus Are you referring to John Sweeney of BBC Panorama fame who first fell for L. Ron Hubbard's 'bull-baiting' tactic, and who then apparently fell for the 'Free Zone' adaptatation of the comic-book story entitled 'Scientology.'

bettyberry · 19/07/2015 13:36

You don't get it. I was approached into recruiting before the lady I know had even made a sale promising I'd make a few hundred a month. How does she know? she hasn't been working at it consistently for a year to even know whether it is a viable business and to try to rope me in promising me what she doesn't even get herself. Its bloody wrong and I'd have to pay for the privilege to sell these products! Boots does not charge you to get started working for them, in fact, If you pass the interview they give you a uniform for free and pay you at the end of the week!

Not to mention the products themselves. They are overpriced, you can get them in holland and barrett much cheaper. But the best bit with holland and barrett, they are legally bound to the ASA and cannot make false claims about any of the products. Unlike the Reps themselves.

Take a look at what's out there, Just as I did. Research a little.

There are ladies advising pregnant and breastfeeding women to take some of those supplements when they shouldn't! They do not have the medical knowledge to recommend them esp when there is no specific quantities or a clear list on their website as to what vits and minerals are present at what amounts. Its just a list of ingredients... We all know the dangers of vit A when pregnant . Ladies who are pregnant should not take aloe internally. It is a natural laxative that can cause diarrhoea and cramping

I have IBS and have been told to take aloe to cure it. I have IBS a laxative is NOT going to cure IBS-D, in fact it will make it much worse.

BEE pollen is also being sold as a cure all. When the active ingredients/enzymes are destroyed in the stomach. BEE pollen as a cure for asthma? feck off! If I took bee pollen I'd start wheezing and coughing and probably end up in A&E needing a nebuliser.

FL reps are promising these products to treat all kinds of illnesses and they are NOT qualified to do so. They do not have the back grounds to determine drug interactions or if these will flare up an existing illness yet they are still making these claims.

There are no peer reviewed, clinical trials to substantiate any of these claims they - the reps - are making.

The messages earlier - the lady I know was trying to say aloe cured all these things miraculously overnight.

The way the ladies are advertising these products isn't right either. Photos after supposed cleanses. One post claiming a stone weight loss in 9 days!? WTF? that is far far far from healthy! Any doctor would be panicked by that kind of weight loss that quickly.

Hoppinggreen · 19/07/2015 14:01

"Blowing out at meson else's candle won't make yours shine any brighter"
Classic FL bot shite

TheNameIWantedIsTaken · 19/07/2015 14:03

arareman you compare FL to Boots but I can honestly say that Boots have never pressured me into a party that turned out to be an extremely awkward meeting of new mums / young women not yet established in their chosen career path. Boots have never contacted me on social media asking me over and over if I'm interested in exploiting any relationships I've built up over the years. In fact if I buy something from Boots it's because I've chosen to use their store to buy something with no pressure applied, I've probably researched exactly what I'm looking for, and if I ask the staff for advice they aren't likely to earn commission on the product that they suggest, whether I choose to buy it or not. I can make my own decisions with a clear mind with Boots. So, no, not really comparable...

Eyespying · 19/07/2015 14:04

This reply has been deleted

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lazycoo · 19/07/2015 14:39

arareman

In accusing us 'all' of such jealousy or schadenfreude I think you're missing the point. We are raising awareness. Your circumstances sound enviable, that your wife is able to work for less. Great! But what about the others that she'll be encouraged to target? Will they be able to part with £200 to see if it takes off for them or will your wife, to hit her next bonus, not care about who she rips off along the way? This is not a personal attack on you or your wife: this is how the business model is designed. How much research did you do before you signed up? If you did, you would have questioned the fantastic promises of sustainability. Selling overpriced rubbish to friends who feel compelled to help you out is pretty amoral (IMO) or sustainable - but that's exactly how the business is structured, to get the 'pity pound' out of your friends and family for a while before they get fed up. If you're happy with that for your wife, good for you. This thread is hopefully a help to others that are looking but not finding the other side of the MLM story. I nearly parted with £1200 for overpriced face creams in 2012 (another MLM). I had had a mmc and lost my job, two weeks apart. I was depressed like your wife. And like your wife, perhaps, I was an easy mark because I was unwell. Question the sustainability of this scam, think critically for yourself, and be there to support your wife when this all goes wrong.

NorbertDentressangle · 19/07/2015 16:47

Hoppinggreen
"Blowing out at meson else's candle won't make yours shine any brighter"
Classic FL bot shite

Haha you beat me to it. I think I guffawed when I read that line at the end of arareman's post as I swear I've seen this from a FLbot (the one that posted #saynotonegativity)

Eyespying · 19/07/2015 17:12

'Blowing out someone else's candle doesn't make your's shine any brighter.'

What a revealing choice of metaphor, when you realize that so-called 'MLM income opportunities' can be compared to false-beacons which have been lit by life-wrecking criminals, to attract unwary, and/or lost, victims onto the rocks.

Blowing out any false 'MLM' beacon, always enlightens the world. The problem is, that hundreds more of them keep being lit.

bettyberry · 19/07/2015 17:42

thanks eyespying. Drs like that are true of all businesses though. At least they can be spotted...eventually.

Eyespying · 19/07/2015 17:56

This reply has been deleted

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lastuseraccount123 · 19/07/2015 19:26

yesss, finally a bot responds.

Areman, you said:

I'm not a distributor but my wife is and no, she's not making a boat load of money. She had the 9-5, she hated it, was on all sorts of anti-depressants and other mood managing pills. She heard about FL, I told her to do whatever she wants to do and I will support her. She makes a couple of hundred a month, supplement that with my income and we have enough to get by. Sure we're worse off financially but guess what, she's happy. She smiles when she talks about work. She's off the pills. Is that so bad?

Actually, it's sad. It's sad because she sounds like the perfect MLM victim. As you admit yourself, you are worse off financially since she quit her job and tried to make money from FL. It's a shame that you and she and most likely your friends and family, her customers are being exploited like this, imo.

Nope, not interested in blowing out anyone's "candle". Just frustrated at seeing good people exploited by these cynical cults.

lastuseraccount123 · 19/07/2015 19:27

My flbot posted another dream big go for it quote.

bettyberry · 19/07/2015 20:05

astuseraccount123 - I am in shock (mostly) my FL lady is doing exactly, EXACTLY as you have all put on here. It must be in the marketing classes they do. How to curate a FB feed/post.

Today's hashtags #WorkInMyPjs #SuchAHardLife Hmm

How they are all exactly the same yet touted as 'independent' businesses... smh

lastuseraccount123 · 19/07/2015 20:46

yup it's part of their training. they're trying to sell you a 'lifestyle' so that you want to be like them too. #FLfakes

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